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Old May 21st, 2010, 11:51 AM   #141
Sch1
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The case of the Madrid tram clearly shows the difference. The pivoting boggies do need any special fitting of track to wheels nor flange lubrication and the do not squeal.
The fixed boggie trams may be sufficient in many cases, even with all the disadvantages. If the tracks don't have heavy traffic the increased track wear may not be of big importance.
Many new tracks in cities with new tram systems have maybe only 12 trains per hour in peak time. The busier systems have tracks with many times more traffic. I Prague, for example, track to Barrandov in the outskirts has 22 trains per peak hour and the track on Národní třída with one sharp curve in city center has 52 trains per peak hour and even 8 trains during the night traffic.
So if you predict that the rails in sharp curves would need maintenance after 10 years with 12 trains an hour, it makes only 2 years and 4 months with 52 trains.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 01:12 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
Thanks for alerting us to KTM5 Tramwayman - looks like it's across the line by a nose (a few hundred more than T3). How many still survive? I am surprised at the number. I thought Czechoslovakia was the designated tram manufacturing country in Comecon although I know Poland and Russia (and apparently Latvia) still manufactured some of their own, but T3/T4 was still the most successful (and technically superior) export.
Well it's your opinion about T3/T4 about them being superior in quality and successful cause I don't think so.
They are short, have very small window,s a person standing can't see anything from windows. The motor-generator is pretty noisy in this trams (don't talk about hell hole modifications, I'm talking about original models).
the seats are very uncomfortable origianl seats and of plastic.

Now what about exterior design of tram, I think one the most ugly trams they are that's my opinion personal.

In spite of that KTM-5 interior is very comfortable, salon is big with big windows, the seats are of anatomic form, and very very comfortable, (KTM-5 were the msot numerous tras in my city so I know them very well since childhood). My uncle was a driver of one of them for 18 years and was like new from factory.

Now what about exterior design, many people find it nonattractive, but also many find attractive so exterior design is al about personal taste.

Technically Tatras aren't superior to KTM-5.

For now the best KTM-5's in the wrold like they've been delivered from factory are in Belorussia, Mazyr.

They are maintained so well that without any modification they look like new, but now they are already 22-23 years old.

KTM-5 was manufactured between 1969-1992. Well you can all that read in wikipedia too.


For now there are about 9000 KTM-5's left in operation.

Their maximum speed is set to 75 km/h but they can accelerate much more of course as all the trams.

The oldest KTM-5's now are of 1973 year manufactured are left in Belorussia in very good condition you can't even say that they are already 37 years old.
here's one of them without any modifications and capital maintaining.
http://transphoto.ru/vehicle/17085/

HISTORYWORKS I don;t know if you know aboutr this site, the worlds best site of trams and trolleybuses database.
http://transphoto.ru/
everyday uptade of hundreds of photos.
It's native russian but has many languages too you sure check it every day and see what trams run in all sities of the world.



Here are Mazyr tram pictures, the KTM-5's in best shape.


Last edited by Tramwayman; May 21st, 2010 at 01:35 PM.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 03:02 PM   #143
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Sch1, 15T has flange lubricators nevertheless - they are pretty standard on modern trams. But presumably it would have less need to use them than Citadis.

Tramwayman, thank you for all your information. It is always interesting listening to you (and I like your Georgia tram forum).

I must say candidly that any product of the Soviet Union that found its way to the west was absolute crap and that seemed to be the hallmark of the produce of the kingdom of the proletariat at the time (although we have a USSR cuckoo clock that keeps working by some miracle).

So if you have shown the world the first quality Soviet product then congratulations! They look pretty nice (a bit like Tatra T6) and if they operate well and there are more numbers of them than even record-holding T3 then it is good for the world to know (because we didn't before).

As for aesthetics I respect your opinion and you respect mine. I haved never found anyone on this forum to agree with me so I now accept that I have bad taste!
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Old May 21st, 2010, 03:51 PM   #144
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Jaja.
Well I can't say that Soviet Union products were good no but if we compare Tatra adn KTm they are the same age trams and in quality they don't differ too much.

For now Chzech product is one of the best and no Russia can compare with them.


Ust Katav Tram factory is one of the biggest tram manufacturers from 20 th century in Russia, it still works and produces trams of course model KTM but another series.

After KTM-5 there were series of KTM-8 and KTm-19 and now there are KTM-23.


Here you can see video from KTm-5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY8dvVJIWmE

Video take on 14 may in Russian city magnitogorsk, the tracks are in bad condition but in spite of that KTM-5 accelerates to 70 km/h pretty well. They have maximum acceleration 1,8 m/s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAqUx...eature=related

here the tracks are even worste on bridges especially but see as soon as tracks go better tram accelerates immidiately ahah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlppE...eature=related
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Old May 21st, 2010, 10:06 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sch1 View Post
The case of the Madrid tram clearly shows the difference. The pivoting boggies do need any special fitting of track to wheels nor flange lubrication and the do not squeal.
The fixed boggie trams may be sufficient in many cases, even with all the disadvantages. If the tracks don't have heavy traffic the increased track wear may not be of big importance.Many new tracks in cities with new tram systems have maybe only 12 trains per hour in peak time. The busier systems have tracks with many times more traffic. I Prague, for example, track to Barrandov in the outskirts has 22 trains per peak hour and the track on Národní třída with one sharp curve in city center has 52 trains per peak hour and even 8 trains during the night traffic.
So if you predict that the rails in sharp curves would need maintenance after 10 years with 12 trains an hour, it makes only 2 years and 4 months with 52 trains.
Sch1, you rightly point out that differing traffic situations will favour different sorts of engineering compromises. So much of engineering design is a matter of balancing competing pressures, and coming up with the answer which most suits a particular situation.

At present, I would expect that 100% low-floor trams will almost inevitably be harsher on the track - and on the tram's own wheels, than high-floor vehicles.

There are many instructive videos on Youtube and elsewhere which show this. Note the ones showing trams in Milan. Here it is quite clear that when taking corners, Ansaldo-Breda "Sirio" trams - modern low-floor trams first introduced in 2002 - make much more grinding and squealing noise than the venerable Peter Witt "Ventotto" trams - first introduced in 1928, and deriving from an American design of 1914!

The use of pivoting bogies under low-floor trams will help to alleviate the problem, but as "historyworks" has pointed out, even the 15T bogies have a much more limited pivoting range than those of a high-floor tram.

"Tramwayman" - many thanks for the link to the Russian transphoto site - it has already provided me with, for example, the best map - a very good one - of the Riga tram and trolleybus system. I look forward to browsing that site for many images of unfamiliar trams and tramway systems.

Incidentally, although few I suspect would regard the KTM-5 aesthetically as a particularly good design, I find myself quite liking it - or at least not actively disliking it (as I do dislike some of the designs of e.g. Bombardier, Ansaldo-Breda, and Alstom, despite Alstom having a quite unjustified - in my opinion - reputation for visual design. Even Siemens, who in my opinion are generally superior in this respect, have some ugly designs). The KTM-5 looks to me to be clean, unfussy, "honest", and I do like the large windows.

"historyworks" - there was a general perception in the west that all products from east of the iron curtain were crap. Lada cars had a bad reputation, but so too did Skoda cars - and as for Trabants! I suspect that, while the general standard was low, the blanket dismissal of Eastern European manufacture was mere prejudice. Of course, Japanese, Korean etc. manufactures received similar, if not greater, derogatory prejudice in earlier days - and I suspect in some quarters still do.

As far as Soviet or Russian industry is concerned, let's remember that they put satellites and men into space before anyone else did. I have a pair of Russian binoculars - and they are perfectly OK. I once travelled in a Soviet built aircraft, Antonov An-24 I think it was, without any particular apprehension.

This is not to deny that the general standard of products of the Communist dictatorships was of a much lower quality than that in the west. Nor is it meant in any way to support the said dictatorships, of which all the countries who have freed themselves are well rid. I only wish that the country of my ancestors, China, can find some way of ridding itself of the autocratic dictatorship which holds sway at the present.
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 12:09 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank H View Post
"Tramwayman" - many thanks for the link to the Russian transphoto site - it has already provided me with, for example, the best map - a very good one - of the Riga tram and trolleybus system. I look forward to browsing that site for many images of unfamiliar trams and tramway systems.

Incidentally, although few I suspect would regard the KTM-5 aesthetically as a particularly good design, I find myself quite liking it - or at least not actively disliking it (as I do dislike some of the designs of e.g. Bombardier, Ansaldo-Breda, and Alstom, despite Alstom having a quite unjustified - in my opinion - reputation for visual design. Even Siemens, who in my opinion are generally superior in this respect, have some ugly designs). The KTM-5 looks to me to be clean, unfussy, "honest", and I do like the large windows.
The thing is that, Yes I love KTM-5's not because they are till now the worlds most beautifull and best trams, no of course not.

I just love them cause they're my native trams, since childhood I have only rode and known them and Riga built RVZ-6 trams.

These two types of trams were the fleet of Tbilisi tram system from 1962 to 2006 when the last tram line was demolished.

I was born in 1988, my uncle got his tram wagon KTM-5A in 1991 july. Depot gave it number 189
http://transphoto.ru/vehicle/15576/

I was only 3 years old, I don't remember the arrival. but since 1993 I already remember this tram, I loved it so much, I love trams since childhood, well I always helped my uncle in maintaining our wagon in best shape and it was Tbilisi's best in shape tram wagon till 2006 when it was scrapped because tram system closed, It was like new from factory. You can see this on photos of 2006.

All other KTM-5's looked old and were in a very bad condition also RVZ-6 cars they were even older.

I remember so much so much every day about this trams they I got to love them.

It's already 3 years and 5 moth that Tbilisi has no more trams, they were scrapped in 2008, I miss 189 very much, I would give anything just to ride it for once more.

I know it's just piece of metal and electronics, without soul but maybe it's so that a person gets really keen on with something yours, furniture, car, book, bus, or even tram.

I miss tram system of Tbilisi too my town is very ebautiful and mountainous and tram lines scenery was very beautiful.

The best that have KTM-5 trams are there seats, they are mega comfortable.
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Old May 22nd, 2010, 01:02 AM   #147
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I think it is natural for any of us to like nostalgically what we remember from childhood, I do also - though that doesn't explain my liking for T3 (more to do with it being a big sexy-looking red and yellow racing car with very comfortable (for me) plastic seats!)

I hope you get trams back in Tbilisi one day Tramwayman. We have the same situation in Sydney where we once had one of the world's biggest tram systems so I know how you feel.

Frank H, of course I was exaggerating a little about USSR achievements - naturally they got men into space, perhaps this is why everything else was neglected!

I remember when visiting the Skoda factory at Plzen, where they were modernising the USSR-built metro cars for the Prague metro, it was explained to me that they had great difficulty with this project because the cars were so roughly built - every one had a slightly different shape and size so fitting standard mass-produced modifications was difficult, they had to do "hand-build" work on each one! I think that pretty well sums up Soviet industry. Solid but agricultural. By contrast the quality of the trams I saw being built at Plzen was second to none.
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Old May 25th, 2010, 11:27 AM   #148
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This looks like it's been edited by someone in this discussion (Sch1?) judging by the references. I tidied up the English a little, I hope nobody minds!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skoda_ForCity

Re speed on 20m curves, I know in Australia the fixed bogie trams go around such curves at about 4 kph (which is the lowest figure cited in the Wiki article). As for the higher figure (15 kph) does anyone know if this is about the speed that conventional bogie trams go around such radius in Prague (or similar European city)?
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Old June 2nd, 2010, 08:53 PM   #149
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Re speed on 20m curves, I know in Australia the fixed bogie trams go around such curves at about 4 kph (which is the lowest figure cited in the Wiki article). As for the higher figure (15 kph) does anyone know if this is about the speed that conventional bogie trams go around such radius in Prague (or similar European city)?
There's been a discussion on the yahoo eurotrams discussion group...:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/grou...guid=163916663
... on the subject of "Maximum Turning Speed".

As some members here may not be members of the yahoo eurotrams group, and thus won't be able to read the messages (unless they join), I hope it is alright for me to quote parts of the discussion here? (Moderators please tell me if this is not OK)

It started with this - "It has been suggested to me that on a 20 m radius curve a fixed bogie tram (Citadis/Combino for example) is restricted to a speed of about 4 kph, For the same radius it has been suggested that a tram with pivoting bogies can round the same corner at up to 15 kph."

Some excerpts from comments and replies:
"A 20 metre radius is rather generous for North American street systems. More like 10.5 m in many traditional cities. It will be interesting to see how the new Toronto low floor cars negotiate the curves there. Cars based on a modernized "two-rooms and a bath" scheme are hard on the track, just as their ancestors were. The only reason they have succeeded in some European venues is because the track was purpose-built with very generous curvatures. One need not go any further than Melbourne to see how inferior they are when running on traditional layouts. The 70% low floor car with swiveling end bogies (trucks) and independently rolling wheels on a centre "truck" seems to work out better…that is if the centre truck stays on the track! Even at that, speeds are more in the order of 10 kph through turnouts and sharp curvatures. One wonders if the trade-off of prematurely worn-out track is worth the investment in 100% low floor vehicles.
In curving, stiff suspension characteristics and conventional fixed axles exhibit hunting from oscillation of the rigid wheelset. These parameters contribute to poor curving performance, resulting in increased in maintenance costs from high wheel and rail wear. "

"To allow vehicles negotiate sharp radius curves, independently rotating wheels or some form of vehicle steering can be fitted to achieve free rotational independence without the relative rotational constraint from the opposing wheel.
However, sharp curves are subject to increased wear from an increased angle of attack. The ability to negotiate sharp radius curves by independently rotating wheels is therefore offset with an increased risk of flange climbing especially on heavily worn rails, as happened in Blackpool in 2006 (see Rail Accident Report 15/2007 Derailment at Starr Gate, Blackpool, 30th May 2006).
Nottingham has independently rotating wheels (not pivoting bogies) on its Incentro vehicles, negotiation of Lace Market curve (18m N/B & 20.8 S/B) and Old Market Square (22 S/B & 26 N/B) are negoitated at 15 kph."

"Rail wear in curves is a feature of track curvature and vehicle bogies / wheelset characteristics, whether trams are low floor or not is irrespective as it is not a contributory factor to the wear rates."
(answered by)
"That may be true - but a rigid truck does tend to exacerbate flange and rail head wear as opposed to a swiveling truck. The "Pivs" in Leeds come to mind as well as long wheel-base single trucks negotiating 10 m radius curves. In order to have 100% low floors, a big compromise is made in the running gear to allow it. The ULF cars in Vienna come to mind."

"The only 'compromise' is the lack of a fixed axle. As I mentioned previously this usually requires independently rotating wheels (IRWs) to be fitted, which, incidently aids steering around sharp radius curves. The only compromise is the tendency to exhibit hunting at high speed on plain line when compared with fixed axles and a higher probability of flange climb on heavily worn rails."

"The tightest curve in Melbourne is about 17m radius.
Both P&MTT trams traversed it without incident on Sunday evening on their way back to Preston.
The tightest curve I have ever seen is at Union station in Toronto.
See: http://tdu.to/60032/4059_UnionStation_Toronto_Oct07.jpg
The tram really screamed on that curve. I'd be interested to know what radius it is.
I understand that the tight curves were a big issue in Toronto's tender process for new trams."

"The question is not if a tram can make a tight curve, the question is if you are willing to accept rail and wheel wear. And the wear is the reason why the minimum radius here in Vienna was changed from 18 to 25 m with exceptional 20 m if not possible otherwise. However, some curves at 18 m still exist in non-public areas like depots."

"Looking back over TDU postings I see that one of our listmembers, who was working in Canada at the time, said that the minimum curve there was 11m."

"Not having (freely) rotating bogies is also a major compromise. Instead of the bogie rotating, a whole vehicle module must be turned. Damping systems are needed to straighten the vehicle body and absorb shocks from these movements. This inevitably changes running characteristics for the worse.
Maintaining proper gauge without a fixed axle can be problematic. This depends on the whole bogie structure. Nottingham's Incentros are presumeably better in this respect than our Variotrams, which neither maintain gauge nor run cleanly through curves. Wheel wear on the Variotrams is severe compared with conventional trams.
Incidentally Bombardier uses small wheels and ramps to allow real axles on the Cityrunner / Outlook C / Flexity II -family even with 100 % low floors." [from a poster in Helsinki]

"I am used to Imperial measurements, so I hope that 10 m radius equals 36' radius curves. If that is the case, then all US and Canada traditional systems have this as a minimum radius. Melbourne, Brisbane and other Australian systems had/have similar geometry. Sometimes I think that people in this industry "forget" what has gone on before and just assume that current practice is the only practical standard. Yes, independently rotating wheels (IRWs) aids steering around sharp radius curves (but today must be continuously computer controlled) and as you correctly state, they have a penchant for hunting on straight track. My observations suggest that this is all good for street running and purpose-made rights of way. When I was in England, I rode the Croydon Tramlink line many times. The cars there run at 80 k on PROW at times as well as low speed running on George St., etc. Those cars are 70% low floor. Incidentally, (and only meant as a question) what is the minimum number of years considered cost effective when replacing permanent way?"

One poster gave these official figures:
Eurotram (FLEXITY Outlook)
Max. Speed 80 km/h
Minimum Horizontal Curve Radius 18 m
Maximum Gradient 68‰
% Low Floor 100%

FLEXITY Swift
Max. Speed 100 km/h
Minimum Horizontal Curve Radius 25 m
Maximum Gradient 70‰
% Low Floor 70%

The correspondents posting were called Greg Sutherland, Tony Tieuli, Tim Moss (I think), Mal Rowe, Gerald S., Ernst Kers, and Lauri Kangas.

My comments are:
I would be very surprised if 10m were the minimum radius curves for the service route lines of any tram/streetcar system. It certainly seems that Toronto has the tightest minimum radius of any major tram system, and that any supplier of trams to Toronto has to make provision for that. But all figures I've seen suggest that the minimum radius for Toronto is rather more than 10m. And Melbourne has certainly got a considerably more generous minimum radius than Toronto - although still very tight compared with modern "light rail" type systems.

All in all, this highlights the importance of the 15T design in its radically new solution to the low-floor challenge. I can't help feeling, after reading the comments on various forums, that all previous solutions are very unsatisfactory, and can only be countenanced if systems are prepared to spend a great amount on track maintenance - and aren't too concerned to annoy passers by with the excruciating noise of loud squealing on tight corners.

With the start of 15T in service in Riga, and the imminent start in Prague, it will be fascinating to see if this new approach works satisfactorily in practice.

Last edited by Frank H; June 2nd, 2010 at 09:18 PM.
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Old June 3rd, 2010, 12:19 AM   #150
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this thread needs more pics of 15t





source
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Old June 3rd, 2010, 01:31 AM   #151
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Quote:
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There's been a discussion on the yahoo eurotrams discussion group...:
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/grou...guid=163916663
... on the subject of "Maximum Turning Speed".
LOL, judging by the names (some Australian) on this Yahoo discussion I am the instigator of this international discussion even though I'm not a member of that group! Sch1 has given me an excellent reply to this question on the Czech Republic tram thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=518

and you may have read it.

There seems no doubt a pivoting bogie tram (without trailer) can round a 20m curve at up to 30 kph, which is what I would have thought. The rest of the discussion on low floor trams seems to be getting mired down with little awareness of the existence of the 15T. I'm amazed at the notion that the wheels of a low floor tram could get out of gauge without an axle netween them - surely this would only be a result of poor manufacture/design!

The Toronto minimum gauge is 11 metres - personally I don't see how Bombardier will do it with their present designs.

I can't say how great it is to have you in on the discussion Frank H, I've felt like an English-speaking loner to date! Everybody else in the "Anglo" rail world seems entirely ignorant of developments east of the Elbe ("east of the Elbe thar be dragons me hearty!"). The Alstom/Bombardier duopoly also gets away with it with porkies in their advertising - Alstom applauding itself for the "world's first low floor pivoting bogie" (conveniently overlooking the 15T) and Bombardier parading "the world's largest tram order" in Toronto when the Prague 15T order is significantly larger.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 09:29 PM   #152
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this thread needs more pics of 15t
Hope you don't mind if I post my video from 15T in Riga
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Old June 7th, 2010, 10:32 AM   #153
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Wow. Skoda should hire you to make promotional videos for them. Nice work indeed.

Btw lucky you that your authorities are less strict about approval of new types than the Czech ones. In Czech republic the first prototype is still collecting the prescribed 15 000 kms of uneventful operation required to allow mere testing with passengers.

Skoda is currently testing the 1st prototype day and night yet the completion of the quota is weeks far away and so is the date first ordinary Praguer will be allowed to set foot in the first ForCity tram.
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Old June 7th, 2010, 12:27 PM   #154
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Wow. Skoda should hire you to make promotional videos for them. Nice work indeed.
You should see (and hear) Hybrid 87's other video on Riga PT thread!
I recommend Sennheiser headphones that I am lucky to have!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRazor View Post
Btw lucky you that your authorities are less strict about approval of new types than the Czech ones. In Czech republic the first prototype is still collecting the prescribed 15 000 kms of uneventful operation required to allow mere testing with passengers.

Skoda is currently testing the 1st prototype day and night yet the completion of the quota is weeks far away and so is the date first ordinary Praguer will be allowed to set foot in the first ForCity tram.
And yet they haven't exposed people to real-life experience (as opposed to internet poll based on photos) of the seat choices in prototype before making a final decision on seats.

I will be interested to see the public reaction.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 12:07 PM   #155
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In light of Sch1's information that synchronous motors are smaller and lighter than equivalent powered asynchronous motors, I would expect most if not all hub motors to be synchronous. Does anyone know if that is so?

Would it be possible to incorporate an asynchronous motor into a wheel hub in the way I presume that the motor has been so incorporated in the Variotram? If it is not so, then the Variotram must also have synchronous motors, alongside the 15T and the Citadis X (but not earlier Citadis).

In all other cases so far where I have managed to find information on motor-type in modern trams, asynchronous motors have been specified. That is the case with all Skoda trams other than the 15T, with the PESA SWING tram, the Solaris Tramino, Siemens Combino, and Citadis prior to the X series. Thus it still seems to me that the 15T is one of a small minority of modern trams in using synchronous motors. Again this will add interest to seeing how the 15T performs in everyday service.
Frank H here's something I've found for you on synchronous motors:

http://www.radioeng.cz/fulltexts/2009/09_04_601_605.pdf

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Old June 10th, 2010, 07:46 PM   #156
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I can't say how great it is to have you in on the discussion Frank H, I've felt like an English-speaking loner to date! Everybody else in the "Anglo" rail world seems entirely ignorant of developments east of the Elbe ("east of the Elbe thar be dragons me hearty!"). The Alstom/Bombardier duopoly also gets away with it with porkies in their advertising - Alstom applauding itself for the "world's first low floor pivoting bogie" (conveniently overlooking the 15T) and Bombardier parading "the world's largest tram order" in Toronto when the Prague 15T order is significantly larger.
historyworks, it's largely due to your informed advocacy for the 15T, and Czech tram design, that I've realised the importance of what Skoda have achieved with the 15T.

Many thanks for the link to the paper on synchronous motors. It confirms what I had suspected - that synchronous motors are very rare on trams, perhaps the 15T and the Citadis X are the only examples with such.

Incidentally the few videos of the 15T I have come across with "natural" sound do seem to indicate that the 15T is quieter going round corners than Citadis, Combino etc. ULF is also comparatively quiet, as it also doesn't have fixed bogies - or indeed any real bogies at all.
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Old September 2nd, 2010, 07:24 PM   #157
Hybrid 87
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Why isn't the 15T still in service? Any problems with the tests?

The second 15T in Riga must begin daily service soon while the first one already runs for 3 month.
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Old September 3rd, 2010, 04:51 AM   #158
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Why isn't the 15T still in service? Any problems with the tests?

The second 15T in Riga must begin daily service soon while the first one already runs for 3 month.
Because Czechs are very cautious people, not reckless fun-lovers like Latvians!

How is your first 15T going, still as good?
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Old September 7th, 2010, 08:01 PM   #159
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Because Czechs are very cautious people, not reckless fun-lovers like Latvians!

How is your first 15T going, still as good?
No real problems. We had a small problem with the heating system in June/July. The whole saloon started to smell like homeless popele (piss, dirt and so on). But it happened at the same time that some Skoda workers were doing a check on our tram, so it was fixed in a day. The only info I found was that it was something with the saloon heating, but what exactly don't know.

Here is a video of the second 15T being deliverd in the night from 30th to 31st august:
http://tv.delfi.lv/video/yFST1r43/
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Old October 6th, 2010, 02:05 AM   #160
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So, since yesterday, Škoda 15T is in testing with passangers as well.

Therefore there are first impressions on the internet:

Very quiet and steady ride and acceleration, faster OIS (onboard information system). Practically the only complain is about a noisy doors when they're closing.

some vids:







and pictures:







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