daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy (aug.2, 2013) | DMCA policy | flipboard magazine

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > Liverpool Metro Area

Liverpool Metro Area 'Scouse Scrapers for both sides of the Mersey



Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 28th, 2009, 02:26 PM   #21
Toadboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Liverpool, in the North of England but not of it
Posts: 10,447
Likes (Received): 802

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
The best comment on the Sun came from Ronnie Barker in Porridge when he was in the prison hospital

'Godber, please get me the Sun - oh and something to read'.

I mean did anyone buy the Sun before Hillsborough?
Loads, biggest selling paper by a mile.
__________________
Duh! Knows
Toadboy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old November 28th, 2009, 03:16 PM   #22
the pool08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: st,helens
Posts: 1,610
Likes (Received): 197

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadboy View Post
Loads, biggest selling paper by a mile.
wow hang on mate. not here on Merseyside, ill dig some facts out for you.
the pool08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2009, 03:22 PM   #23
the pool08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: st,helens
Posts: 1,610
Likes (Received): 197

Guardian

Hillsborough: 20 years on, Liverpool has still not forgiven the newspaper it calls 'The Scum'
• Tabloid still reviled after claims on front page
• Campaigners believe it hampered fight for justice
Owen Gibson and Helen Carter The Guardian, Saturday 18 April 2009

The front page of Britain's best-selling tabloid newspaper read "96 Tears" on Thursday, the headline over a story about the previous day's moving tribute to the Hillsborough dead. Not that many people on Merseyside saw it.

The newspaper, which has a circulation of more than 3m nationally, sold just 8,000 copies in the area on the day of the memorial service at Anfield, which was attended by more than 30,000 people.

Inside the newspaper, still known as "The Scum" in Liverpool, "lifelong fan" David Wooding, the Whitehall editor, delivered a poignant tribute to the men, women and children who lost their lives. But for those who gathered at Anfield this week, it was far too little and far too late.

At the Albert pub, squeezed next to the ground, football scarves and Liverpool memorabilia cover the walls and ceiling. The entrance of the pub has a poster mocking the front page of the Sun's notorious splash, which appeared a few days after the tragedy. The tabloid's masthead appears to be dripping in blood. "The truth," it reads. "96 dead. Hillsborough 15th April 1989. Don't buy the Sun."

Tommy Doran, who works at the Albert, remembers one regular reading the Sun in a corner of the pub. "I went over to him and said: 'What's that?' and he went: 'The Sun.' I just ripped it up into pieces in front of him." Like many others on Merseyside, Doran will never forgive the decision of then editor Kelvin MacKenzie to lead on 19 April 1989 with a story headlined "The Truth" that was anything but. In it, quoting unnamed police sources and a Tory MP, it claimed drunken Liverpool fans urinated on and picked the pockets of the dead, hampered rescue efforts and attacked policemen.

Lord Taylor's subsequent report into the tragedy later made it clear that it was the decision to open a gate to ease a crush outside the ground and a failure to direct fans away from the central pen once inside that was the main cause. The Sun's slurs still linger and, according to some relatives of the victims, hampered a fight for justice that goes on to this day.

The hatred they feel for the paper still burns fiercely and the Sun has all but given up trying to repair relations.

Sun reporters know they will never get exclusives from former players who remember the disaster and its effect. Current players such as Steven Gerrard, who lost a cousin in the disaster, are similarly aware of the sensitivities involved.

Some at the paper believe it became the target for the anger of fans partly because of the failure of officials to accept responsibility. Managing editor Graham Dudman wrote two weeks ago: "Despite some members of the Hillsborough Family Support Group publicly accepting our apology, it made little difference on Merseyside where the community has to live with the knowledge that no police officer or ground official was ever convicted for the mistakes that led to the tragedy." For most, the time for apologies has long gone. Tom Hughes, a Liverpool fan, said: "I would never buy it and people round here won't buy it again for another 20 years. It has gone too far. There has been the apology from Kelvin MacKenzie then he took it back saying he was forced to apologise. What does that say to people?"

Mackenzie admitted the story was a "fundamental mistake" before a Commons committee in 1993. But at a private lunch in 2006, he suggested he had only apologised because Rupert Murdoch forced him to and was quoted as saying: "All I did wrong was tell the truth ... I was not sorry then and I'm not sorry now."

In 2004, there was a concerted push by the Sun to try to move on from what it called "the most terrible mistake in its history" but many agreed with the Liverpool Echo's condemnation of it as a "cynical and shameless" exercise.

Dudman went to Liverpool for informal talks with members of the Hillsborough Families Support Group but a formal approach to speak to the group was rejected. "Do you forgive Hitler for what he's done? Does anybody forgive Pol Pot? We are not God," said Margaret Aspinall, who lost her 18-year-old son at Hillsborough. "I cannot forgive people like that. And that Sun newspaper, may God forgive them - not me."

Years of regret
1989 Kelvin MacKenzie ignores the pleas of senior colleagues and plumps for a front page headline reading The Truth, with three sub-headings: "Some fans picked pockets of victims; Some fans urinated on the brave cops; Some fans beat up PC giving kiss of life". MacKenzie is persuaded by Rupert Murdoch to apologise.

1993 Appearing in front of a Commons select committee, MacKenzie said: "I regret Hillsborough. It was a fundamental mistake. The mistake was I believed what a (Tory) MP said."

2004 After the Sun pays Wayne Rooney a six-figure sum for a series of exclusive interviews following Euro 2004, he is criticised in his home town of Liverpool. In response, the Sun carries a full page apology for "the most terrible mistake in its history" but also claims the campaign has been stirred up by the Trinity Mirror-owned Liverpool Echo.

2006 At a private business lunch at a Newcastle law firm MacKenzie is reported to have retracted his apology: "I wasn't sorry then and I'm not sorry now because we told the truth."

2007 MacKenzie, appearing on Question Time, says he shouldn't have to apologise. "The issue about it is that story has become so caught up in a battle ... that actually no matter what I said would resolve the issue."



brilliant.. just 8,000 to go,
20 years ago it was well over 200,000.
the pool08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 28th, 2009, 03:57 PM   #24
Toadboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Liverpool, in the North of England but not of it
Posts: 10,447
Likes (Received): 802

Quote:
Originally Posted by the pool08 View Post
wow hang on mate. not here on Merseyside, ill dig some facts out for you.
Pre Hillsborough it was, that's why the boycott and their loss of advertising revenue/sales etc. has been so devastating to them.
__________________
Duh! Knows
Toadboy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2011, 10:44 AM   #25
Portobello Red
____________
 
Portobello Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bootle / Notting Hill
Posts: 4,873
Likes (Received): 924

Portobello Red no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2011, 12:42 AM   #26
Portobello Red
____________
 
Portobello Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bootle / Notting Hill
Posts: 4,873
Likes (Received): 924

Why Tory Hillsborough documents must be released before Thatcher dies

Brian Reade - Daily Mirror


I’ve lost count of the number of people I’ve heard these past 22 years ask why the Hillsborough Families won’t let it lie.

Move on, you can’t bring back your loved ones, so let it go, they say.

I heard it again this week after a 140,00-strong petition compelled parliament to debate whether documents relating to Margaret Thatcher’s handling of the 1989 disaster should be released uncensored.

“What good will it do?” someone asked me. I’d like to explain.

A few years ago I asked Trevor Hicks if he thought he’d ever establish the truth about why he lost his two beautiful teenage daughters that day.

He told me he already had. He was in no doubt that they died through police incompetence, inadequate safety procedures, a non-existant emergency service response and a culture that had allowed society to view all football fans as dangerous scum and stick them in metal cages.

He sought another truth. Why the Establishment had wriggled out of all blame, smeared the fans as killers, lied about their actions and refused to take any responsibility for the deaths, thus denying the deceased justice and the bereaved closure.

And he said if he could be granted one wish before he died it would be to find out what was said between Margaret Thatcher and police chiefs when she visited the Leppings Lane terrace the day after the disaster.

Because someone in high places had told him that Thatcher decided it was imperative that the police were exonerated. That the consequences for a force she treated almost as her private army, would be immense if (as Lord Justice Taylor’s report later demanded) they took the rap for 96 deaths in their care.

And so the cover-up began with her press adviser Bernard Ingham briefing the media that the disaster had been caused by a “tanked-up mob”.

Three days later the Thatcher-supporting Sun’s infamous front-page about fans urinating on the dead and stealing from their pockets appeared after collusion between the Police Federation and a Tory MP. The story went round the world that drunken fans killed their own. And the truth was buried.

So for Trevor Hicks, the Thatcher documents, which constitute the minutes from that Sheffield meeting and other correspondence with her ministers, could be the smoking gun that proves a conspiracy which went right to the top of the Tory government.

Which is why it’s no surprise that the current one is fighting to stop those secret papers being made public despite the Information Commissioner demanding it be done.

If, as the families suspect, the Tories have something to hide, we need to find out what it is. Which is why MPs will demand next month that every document relating to Thatcher’s role be released in an “unrestricted, uncensored and unredacted” form.

If they win the day it won’t just be a great day for the 96 but for football. Because hers was the government that caged fans, that thought about bringing in electric fences, moats and ID cards and would willingly have killed the game.

If they win I don’t care whether the documents go straight into the public domain or to the independent Hillsborough panel. As someone lucky enough to survive that day though, I do have one wish. That if those papers contain the smoking gun, the trigger is pulled in public before Thatcher dies.

Because I’ve waited a long time to see that bullet fly.
Portobello Red no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2011, 01:49 PM   #27
Wallasey Dave
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 74
Likes (Received): 0

A superb article by Brian Reade.

I do wish i'd see less Sky dishes hanging off houses in Merseyside though.
Wallasey Dave no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2011, 01:41 PM   #28
Portobello Red
____________
 
Portobello Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bootle / Notting Hill
Posts: 4,873
Likes (Received): 924

Hillsborough relatives still seeking answers as Commons debate looms

Echo

BEREAVED families are focusing attention on the “secret” cabinet meeting that took place the day after the Hillsborough disaster.

Relatives who lost loved ones in the 1989 disaster will attend the long-awaited Parliament debate on Monday.

It followed an e-petition of 140,000 signatures calling for a discussion to guarantee full and complete disclosure of all the hidden tragedy files.

Of critical interest to the Hillsborough families is minutes of the key meeting convened within 24 hours by then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher after the Leppings Lane crushes 22 years ago.

Widely rumoured, but never officially confirmed, it is thought she hastily gathered top-level figures to decide how to react to the tragedy.


Alongside the Prime Minister that day was her press secretary Bernard Ingham, who gained infamy for consistently blaming drunken football fans for the tragedy despite the comprehensive conclusion of the Taylor Report which cited the police and poor organisation as reasons for the 96 deaths.

Ingham had to cancel an invitation to speak at Liverpool University following pressure from the outraged Hillsborough families.

It has been suggested Norman Bettison, a senior officer in South Yorkshire Police at the time and subsequently Merseyside Police chief constable, may have also been present at the emergency meeting along with the Home Secretary Douglas Hurd.

Trevor Hicks, who lost his two teenage daughters Vicki, 15, and Sarah, 19, in the disaster, believes that gathering set the tone to wrongly point the finger at unruly supporters for the tragedy.

He told the ECHO today: “We believe it was agreed then that the police were not to take any of the blame.

“We think it was on this Sunday morning, April 16, 1989, that the dirty tricks all started.”

In this regard, the public disclosure of documents minuting this crucial meeting could be hugely revelatory material.

Mr Hicks added: “We are comfortable with the process as it’s going on, although history has taught us to be careful and wary of all things political.

“We’ve wanted all documents to be released to the panel investigating the disaster and to us, un-redacted.

“It’s important that we get our hands on everything.

“All cabinet files must be released, so a great act of faith on our part is going on here.

“That said, there does seem to be a genuine will to get everything into the public domain.

“We are happy the issue is being debated and those words will be officially recorded on Hansard.”

On Monday, politicians will take part in a three-hour debate on the motion calling for total disclosure.
Portobello Red no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 16th, 2011, 11:09 AM   #29
Toadboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Liverpool, in the North of England but not of it
Posts: 10,447
Likes (Received): 802

I still can't believe Bettison got the Merseyside Police job, it was outrageous.

Also one of his first actions was to recruit a new Matrix team comprising of a number of crimmals - hired in muscle. First deployed in force, in full kit, all day to harass football fans. When they didn't get the reaction they where looking for they just kicked off anyway and smashed pubs, restaurants and shops up, attacking people randomly. It back fired on him, he wanted dirt and just ended up with a problem.

Ingham is vile, I wonder how much will actually be surrended and how much will be destroyed, get lost or will just be not released.

The biggest scandel here is that the papers on the meeting and other activity have been withheld from the public - what was the justification?
__________________
Duh! Knows
Toadboy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 17th, 2011, 09:39 PM   #30
design_man
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,553
Likes (Received): 154

The Sun boycott has to be lifelong really, because it was such a revolting attack. If someone in the community attacks someone, horribly, then regardless of how long they have spent in prison and how much they may be reformed, you wouldn't want them in your house, would you? I'm not a red top reader anyway, to be honest, and carry on a Guardian boycott in a similar fashion because of less serious but still unforgivable attacks on the city by that paper.

These families are amazing, if they get to the truth of this I think a lot of people will be in awe of their determination.
design_man no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2011, 10:38 AM   #31
BeeGee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wirral - Greater Liverpool
Posts: 667
Likes (Received): 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadboy View Post
I still can't believe Bettison got the Merseyside Police job, it was outrageous.
When he was appointed my better half wrote to the home secretary of the time with what i believed to be a very sensible and detailed critique of the appointment.

The reply summed up politicians for me, in summary it more or less stated 'don't worry your little head we know so much better than you' and suggested that there were bigger things to complain about than the appointment of a policeman!
BeeGee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2011, 06:30 PM   #32
the pool08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: st,helens
Posts: 1,610
Likes (Received): 197

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-58pQ...layer_embedded

rawk..I submitted this yesterday morning and didn't think they'd actually approve and let me do it, but after last night it really does look like the tide is turning for us.

Please sign this(obviously) but please also take the time to put it everywhere and anywhere you can think: Other LFC forums, Facebook, Twitter - everywhere.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19350
FORCE THE SUN TO RELEASE ITS SOURCES

Once you've added your name you'll receive a confirmation email which you need to reply to, to confirm your signature.

Thanks.
the pool08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2011, 08:18 PM   #33
Portobello Red
____________
 
Portobello Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bootle / Notting Hill
Posts: 4,873
Likes (Received): 924

Hope to put all of the local MPs speeches from the Hillsborough debate in Parliament on here - when they go onto YouTube.

In the meantime, you can watch the speeches here: CLICK
Portobello Red no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 18th, 2011, 11:52 PM   #34
Reds
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 193
Likes (Received): 12

What a powerful debate. Every MP who spoke did so with eloquence and absolute knowledge of the subject they were debating. I never thought I'd have a good word to say about a Tory again after Thatcher, but all parties last night came through for the families, the fans, and the whole injustice that has been borne by the people of Liverpool since that fateful day.

How heartening was it to hear the names mentioned of those people who have still, to this day, banged on with their lies, McKenzie and Ingham. Will the BBC still employ McKenzie; they’ve ignored thousands of complaining emails for years?

Let’s hope this is the first step to justice and closure for the families.

Signed btw.
Reds no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2011, 08:28 AM   #35
the pool08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: st,helens
Posts: 1,610
Likes (Received): 197

10,885,, bump for day two
the pool08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2011, 08:17 PM   #36
Portobello Red
____________
 
Portobello Red's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bootle / Notting Hill
Posts: 4,873
Likes (Received): 924

Steve Rotheram speech during Hillsborough debate - part 1





Steve Rotheram speech during Hillsborough debate - part 2

Portobello Red no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2011, 08:21 PM   #37
Paul D
CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER
 
Paul D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 13,614
Likes (Received): 1603

Quote:
Originally Posted by the pool08 View Post
10,885,, bump for day two
It was on 19,400 odd when I signed it.
__________________
Aerials installed Liverpool
Paul D no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2011, 08:49 PM   #38
Chris B
Liverpool - Est. 1207
 
Chris B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Liverpool - Unique Redefined
Posts: 8,488
Likes (Received): 1250

Just signed it. Now at 21,090.
__________________
Liverpool - Unique Redefined
Chris B no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2011, 10:38 AM   #39
BeeGee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wirral - Greater Liverpool
Posts: 667
Likes (Received): 67

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallasey Dave View Post
A superb article by Brian Reade.

I do wish i'd see less Sky dishes hanging off houses in Merseyside though.
If we had cable in our close that dish would be gone tomorrow.
BeeGee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2011, 08:01 PM   #40
Medici
Beppo
 
Medici's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,976
Likes (Received): 2

The S*n tabloid, should apologise on its front page to the families of the Hillsborough dead for its vicious, disgusting and dishonest headlines at the time of the disaster. I say this, because I believe in press freedom so strongly and in order for the UK to continue with its tradition of press freedom it is vitally important for our press to be seen to have basic standards and values. On a different point its reported today that the Times are laying off editorial staff.
Medici no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu