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Old May 8th, 2004, 06:11 AM   #21
hkskyline
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But this simple reality is very true. How can you negotiate if you're mad at each other?
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Old May 8th, 2004, 07:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
But this simple reality is very true. How can you negotiate if you're mad at each other?
Two gentlemen can certainly negotiate if they disagree. If they agreed, what is there to negotiate?

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Old May 8th, 2004, 10:41 PM   #23
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Well, the tensions are flaring across the strait right now. Do you think both sides will sit down and talk when there are so many clouds hanging overhead and so many issues yet to be resolved? Of course not, and they are not talking now. That's the reality. You can say people can negotiate under any circumstance, but reality often works much differently than idealism.

Politics.
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Old May 8th, 2004, 10:47 PM   #24
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The thing is.....is anyone saying they are going to resume the 3 links right now? Nope. So why this obsession with trying to convince us that nothing is going to be resolved in that region "even in the long term (5 years)?"

Isnt the topic about Cross Strait Aviation News? Or are we into politics now?
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Old May 8th, 2004, 11:39 PM   #25
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Nobody's assuming anything about direct links. Analysts are skeptical as to the time-frame, although they agree it'll be in the very long run. Airlines are taking a passive approach (instead of an active reactionary strategy) by diversifying their markets.

These things are just as much about politics as aviation economics.

The intention of this thread is to keep people posted when news does pop up. Hence there is the word 'News' in the title.
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Old May 8th, 2004, 11:51 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
Nobody's assuming anything about direct links. Analysts are skeptical as to the time-frame, although they agree it'll be in the very long run. Airlines are taking a passive approach (instead of an active reactionary strategy) by diversifying their markets.

These things are just as much about politics as aviation economics.

The intention of this thread is to keep people posted when news does pop up. Hence there is the word 'News' in the title.
Ok good. If this thread is going to turn into a political debate about China-Taiwan affairs, then please make an "official warning" about it, because political threads get "special attention" from mods. In general, non-political threads which end up as a political debate are frowned upon, if you are not aware of this already. Already, I was wondering why politics was brought into the picture when the initial question was about the impact of flight patterns should cross-straits links be resumed.

If politics must be involved, which I presume you are saying is "needed" in this thread, then it must be conducted in the strictest manner of discipline ever possible. This thread is not just a matter between two persons. A Mainland Chinese or Taiwanese who chances upon this thread will be equally entitled to express his views, and nothing is better for him then to see politics being the main gist of the entire thread.

I hope I have your understanding in this? I hope that hence forth, the conduct from every forumer in this thread will be more measured, myself included. Any clarifications are welcomed.
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Old May 9th, 2004, 08:07 AM   #27
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The thread is never intended to be a political debate, although politics will certainly have a role because these negotiations are very political in nature. As long as there is a valid and relevant purpose and it's done in a mature and intelligent manner than any discussion is good.

What do we know?
- cross strait relations are now quite frosty amidst talk of Taiwanese independence
- direct links have been put on hold after the 2003 China Airlines flight due to political tensions
- it doesn't seem like the status quo will change in the long term
- how current political tensions can be resolved will directly impact the progress of direct links
- airlines are reacting passively by diversifying their markets to reduce risk, which is a common strategy and applicable to many types of operating environments

I don't understand why you think this thread will be doomed to political debate when it actually has not happened. By the way, political debate is not a bad thing if done prudently.

It will be very helpful if mainlanders can offer their perspective on the issue as well as Taiwanese, if done in an intelligent manner. Don't shut the door just because problems might occur. Shut the door only when they do pop up.
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Old May 9th, 2004, 01:50 PM   #28
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I hope you would re-read my previous post. Your last two paragraphs in particular demonstrate a misunderstanding of what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
The thread is never intended to be a political debate, although politics will certainly have a role because these negotiations are very political in nature. As long as there is a valid and relevant purpose and it's done in a mature and intelligent manner than any discussion is good..
I hope you realise that when u say there is "no intention" for the thread to be political, and yet being conscious that it is political in nature, and can end up being a political debate, what does that imply?

There is a difference between starting a thread with political intentions from day one, and starting a thread saying it is not political, but going political soon after. This is not to say that political issues are to be avoided, but I think you understand that political issues get extreme attention from mods, and I am inclined to notify other mods of this thread's existance. Hence I am asking you if you intend to turn it political.

It is a simple yes or no.
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Old May 9th, 2004, 07:13 PM   #29
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I hope you realize there is a difference between intention to stir up political tensions and an indirect political foundation behind any argument. We all know this issue is political, but if everyone looks at it in an objective manner then everyone's set. All the participants in here have abided to that code so it is not a problem.

As I've said, political issues are worthy of debate and people should not run away from it when conducted properly. Here in the West we do value opinions and freedom of speech. That's why the Americans stepped up and issued an opinion as I've posted originally).

I don't see how your debate is adding value to the issue. There have been no problems in here so far and I don't think your warning is needed or justified. In fact, some people might be angry that you're trying to stop an intelligent debate here on direct links.

As I've said again and again, and I don't know how you can miss is still, the intentention of this thread is to post news about cross strait links. Your question has been long answered already. Go back and read the post again.

*************************************************************

Here is one of the problems that is holding back cross strait negotiations now :

Thursday April 22, 06:16 PM

Taiwan constitution reform plan will not jeopardize cross-Strait ties: FM

TAIPEI, (AFP) - Taiwan has denied its move to adopt a new constitution is a step towards independence, after Washington warned the island not to jeopardize the status quo with China.

"I can assure you that the constitutional reform will be carried out under the existing framework," Foreign Minister Chen Tan-sun told reporters without elaborating.

Taiwan would work to clear Washington's "misunderstanding" about the plan by President Chen Shui-bian to hold a referendum on a new constitution in 2006 for adoption two years later, the minister said.

The Taiwan leader, who won re-election on March 20, has argued the new law was not designed to split the island from China but govern local issues such as streamlining the government, lowering the voting age and amending compulsory military service.
ADVERTISEMENT

"There has been some misunderstanding, maybe because we have not made it clear enough or because China has deliberately exaggerated the issue. We will step up our communication (with Washington) for better understanding," the minister said.

The new constitution would not lead to any changes in cross-Strait relations, said the minister, a former independence activist.

US Assistant Secretary of State James Kelly Wednesday cautioned Taiwan against moves towards independence from China.

Testifying Wednesday at a hearing marking the 25th anniversary of the Taiwan Relations Act, the blueprint governing ties between Taiwan, China and the United States, Kelly said Washington's efforts to keep Beijing in check could come undone if Taiwan tries to break away.

"We have very real concerns that our efforts at deterring Chinese coercion might fail if Beijing ever becomes convinced Taiwan is embarked on a course toward independence and permanent separation from China," Kelly told members of the House of Representatives Committee on International Relations.

"Taiwan must be stopped in these efforts," Kelly said, amid continuing worry over moves by President Chen toward greater independence during campaigning ahead of the presidential elections.

Washington has observed the "one China" policy since it switched recognition to Beijing in 1979.

Kelly's remarks came a week after China launched its biggest barrage against Taiwan since the poll, warning the plan to write a new constitution would result in "tensions and danger" in the Taiwan Strait.

Beijing fears that referendum would be used to change Taiwan's flag, the island's official name -- the Republic of China -- and its territorial claims, to permanently split the two sides.

China still considers Taiwan, which has been ruled separately since 1949 when communists drove the nationalist forces off the mainland, as part of its territory. It has threatened to invade if the island declares formal independence.

Commentary
- in time these issues are resolvable
- there is a lot of interest on both sides to resume negotiations
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Old May 9th, 2004, 07:24 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
I hope you realize there is a difference between intention to stir up political tensions and an indirect political foundation behind any argument. We all know this issue is political, but if everyone looks at it in an objective manner then everyone's set. All the participants in here have abided to that code so it is not a problem.

As I've said, political issues are worthy of debate and people should not run away from it when conducted properly. Here in the West we do value opinions and freedom of speech. That's why the Americans stepped up and issued an opinion as I've posted originally).

I don't see how your debate is adding value to the issue. There have been no problems in here so far and I don't think your warning is needed or justified. In fact, some people might be angry that you're trying to stop an intelligent debate here on direct links.

As I've said again and again, and I don't know how you can miss is still, the intentention of this thread is to post news about cross strait links. Your question has been long answered already. Go back and read the post again.
Of coz there is a difference, dear hkskyline, which is why I am asking you to differentiate it for yourself in this thread. Amazingly, I am actually trying to tell you to watch your back and to set the record straight least your backside gets fried by another less forgiving mod, but just look at your own response?

Sigh.

For your info, there is a debate going now as to whether politics should even be allowed or not in this entire forums. I do not know how "free speech" advocators are going to take this, but if they arent happy, they have a choice not to be in this forums.

And from the look of it, other mods seems to think it is better not to have them around...
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Old May 9th, 2004, 07:28 PM   #31
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Thursday May 6, 8:10 PM

Report: Taiwan appoints new official responsible for China policy

An academic will replace one of Taiwan's most popular Cabinet officials as the top policy-maker dealing with the critical issue of China relations, the island's semiofficial news agency reported Thursday.

Joseph Wu, a political science professor who recently worked as a top aide to President Chen Shui-bian, will replace Tsai Ing-wen as head of the Mainland Affairs Council, the Central News Agency reported, quoting Wu.

The reshuffle ended weeks of intense speculation about who would replace Tsai, a lawyer, in one of the government's most high-profile positions.

Chen was narrowly re-elected last March, and it is a Taiwanese tradition for leaders to reshuffle their Cabinet at the start of a new term. Tsai worked in the grueling job for four years and has indicated that she wanted a change.

The Mainland Affairs Council is on the front line of Taiwan's cold war with mainland China. A civil war split the two sides in 1949, and Beijing's Communist government has repeatedly threatened to use force to take over the island, just 160 kilometers (100 miles) off the mainland's coast.

The U.S.-educated Wu has a reputation for being friendly and accessible to journalists. He has frequently traveled abroad and has close ties with foreign scholars and policy-makers. He has also been a prolific writer of newspaper opinion articles about China relations.

One of Wu's biggest challenges will be to find a way to start talks with China. Leaders from both sides haven't met since they separated.

Wu will also be under tremendous pressure to craft a policy for restoring direct air and shipping links that were cut more than five decades ago. Many Taiwanese business leaders have investments in China despite the two governments' chilly relations, and they are eager for the government to open links.

So far, long-standing political disputes have blocked progress on both issues, and there are few signs of a breakthrough.

Polls have consistently reported that Tsai was one of the most popular Cabinet members. She is well known for bravely jousting with lawmakers during question-and-answer sessions in the rowdy legislature.
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Old May 9th, 2004, 08:06 PM   #32
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Quote:
Of coz there is a difference, dear hkskyline, which is why I am asking you to differentiate it for yourself in this thread. Amazingly, I am actually trying to tell you to watch your back and to set the record straight least your backside gets fried by another less forgiving mod, but just look at your own response?

Sigh.

For your info, there is a debate going now as to whether politics should even be allowed or not in this entire forums. I do not know how "free speech" advocators are going to take this, but if they arent happy, they have a choice not to be in this forums.

And from the look of it, other mods seems to think it is better not to have them around...
It is very clear from the start of this thread that this is a news thread, as I've stated in the title and perhaps you have failed to realize that. If you bother to read the posts, you'll notice there is very little discussion here.

Hence I wonder why you are stirring up an argument over nothing. Do you have nothing better to do to come in and ruin everything for those who are truly interested in direct links - which is both a political and aviation issue?

The forum is intended to serve its users. Nobody can lay down a law on us without justification and our consultation. You've seen a taste of that in the Hong Kong forum uproar earlier in the y ear. That's how things work here, and the other moderators know that. If you want to continue to be a moderator you need to know it, too.

You are in no position to stifle intellectual debate when there is no evidence of anything getting out of hand in here. The battle that you have warned about has not occurred. Instead, you're trying to make one happen.
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Old May 9th, 2004, 08:57 PM   #33
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Moderators for the most part don't like back and forth arguments such as what's occuring and are not a fan of political threads for that very reason. However most political threads are allowed as long as the forumers remain respectful to each other and do not use personal attacks.
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Old May 9th, 2004, 09:15 PM   #34
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Thank you for your clarification. I'll keep a diligent check to make sure things don't get out of hand in here. Things have been good since inception but if tensions erupt in here I'll message you to shut the thread down.

Asian Airline Reaction to Taiwanese Direct Links - An Analysis

Currently Hong Kong and Macau are primary beneficiaries of Taiwanese transit passengers. The Hong Kong - Taipei route is heavily travelled and very profitable. Currently many airlines serve the market, including Hong Kong carriers Cathay Pacific & Dragonair, Taiwanese carriers China Airlines, EVA, & Mandarin, and international carriers such as Thai, Japan Asia. From the HK airport website there were over 40 flights arrivals from Taipei alone on May 9th.

In terms of how the flights are distributed, Cathay Pacific and China Airlines fly the bulk of those 40+ flights a day. EVA and Dragonair are also market players but international carriers only have one or two flights a day.

Dragonair has enjoyed a major comparative advantage on this route, since they have an extensive Chinese network from its Hong Kong hub. Passengers can fly with them from Taipei or Kaohsiung and then transfer at Hong Kong International to the mainland.

However, Dragonair has realized the potential devastating impact of losing the lucrative Taiwanese routes if direct links occur. Since that is not likely going to happen in the near term, they have taken the passive approach (instead of active reactionary) of expanding their network to more destinations to reduce concentration risk on Taiwan. In the past year Dragonair has inaugurated routes to Bangkok and Tokyo, with further expansion of both passenger and freighter services and the purchase of more aircraft.
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Old May 9th, 2004, 09:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
It is very clear from the start of this thread that this is a news thread, as I've stated in the title and perhaps you have failed to realize that. If you bother to read the posts, you'll notice there is very little discussion here.

Hence I wonder why you are stirring up an argument over nothing. Do you have nothing better to do to come in and ruin everything for those who are truly interested in direct links - which is both a political and aviation issue?

You are in no position to stifle intellectual debate when there is no evidence of anything getting out of hand in here. The battle that you have warned about has not occurred. Instead, you're trying to make one happen.
To put things back in perspective, a question was asked about the potential economic impact on direct links on the existing aviation patterns, put there was an attempt to dismiss discussions on this by insisting that "political realities" make that discussion irrelevant.

The discussion from then on seems to veer increasingly towards a purely political issue, and that was finally confirmed when this line appears:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
Well, the tensions are flaring across the strait right now. Do you think both sides will sit down and talk when there are so many clouds hanging overhead and so many issues yet to be resolved? Of course not, and they are not talking now. That's the reality. You can say people can negotiate under any circumstance, but reality often works much differently than idealism.

Politics.
From there, I asked if this thread was supposed to be a political one, even thou I asked a very economic question which does not have to be brushed aside with politics. As savethewtc points out, we as mods are particularly sensitive about any threads which looks set to be locked in political debate, and that was the simple reason why I asked you if that was the intention of this thread.

A political thread in an aviation forum is not taken lightly. It is not to say they cannot be done, but the past few responses above shows it is not going in the right direction until I decided to change tack and ask u directly if you want to turn this into a political debate, and finally, you went back to posting news, which is what you are supposed to be doing. I appreciate the quick change, but does it only happen when another mod steps in?

Perhaps I should start asking other mods to review every thread u create? I doubt you want that.

Moderators do not step in only AFTER there is an argument. By then, the damage would have been done. This concept is not new, and you can ask just about any other mod here how many times they canned a thread immediately before it can even get one response. This thread does not deserve that kind of threatment, of coz, provided it keeps to what it is supposed to be doing, and that is precisely what I am asking you. What is the intention of this thread? If you declare that it is a political thread, then fine. The rules of political threads apply. That dosent mean it get closed, btw. I do not know where you got that idea from.

My response to the above is as simple as this. You are entitled to imagine any other reason for my actions, but irregardless of what you say, I am going to persist in exercising my role as a mod in here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
The forum is intended to serve its users. Nobody can lay down a law on us without justification and our consultation. You've seen a taste of that in the Hong Kong forum uproar earlier in the y ear. That's how things work here, and the other moderators know that. If you want to continue to be a moderator you need to know it, too.
You know, I find it agreeable that the forum "laws should be justified and consulted amongst users." The thing is, I probably wished you are right with regards to how things work here in ssc. In respect of my need to maintain my professionalism, I cannot divulge too much on what happens in the moding team, but I shall await your ascention into the team, and hopefully you might see things for yourself? Even if that wasent possible in the forseeable future, it isnt very difficult as a forumer to notice the way things work in ssc....
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Old May 10th, 2004, 01:47 AM   #36
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Quote:
To put things back in perspective, a question was asked about the potential economic impact on direct links on the existing aviation patterns, put there was an attempt to dismiss discussions on this by insisting that "political realities" make that discussion irrelevant.
You do realize that direct links are driven by political developments, don't you? Will aviation ties be restored because of demand, population, income, other other economic factors? No. Politics will drive the outcome. Wih so much uncertainty on the political front, economic quantification of the outcome is infeasible because there are so many unknown variables.

That's the political reality. If there are no inputs how do you produce the output? Hence economic impact analysis is not appropriate. Instead, generalizations and high-level explanations are more appropriate, which was done in my last post.

That does not mean people cannot have an intelligent discussion about how direct links are progressing or how they will impact the lives of all 3 stakeholders - China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan (which is stated in the title). In fact, there are no political tensions in here. You are the one who is most immersed in turning this into a political debate.

Quote:
The discussion from then on seems to veer increasingly towards a purely political issue, and that was finally confirmed when this line appears:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
Well, the tensions are flaring across the strait right now. Do you think both sides will sit down and talk when there are so many clouds hanging overhead and so many issues yet to be resolved? Of course not, and they are not talking now. That's the reality. You can say people can negotiate under any circumstance, but reality often works much differently than idealism.

Politics.
As usual you have an eye for taking things out of context and twisting my words. Had the discussion turned ugly, the moderators would have stepped in and shut down the thread. You malicious intent of ending intellectual discussion on direct links is dearly noted. I urge the moderators to take note of this person's attempt to shut the thread with these tit for tat posts.

In fact, you are the one who started discussing the political context behind direct links in posts 12 & 14 :

Quote:
As far as history has revealed, it was the Kuomintang which severed the 3 links with Mainland China, for a whole host of reasons, and if contemporary politics were to go by, all evidence points to the Mainland Chinese hoping that the links will be restored.
Quote:
I suppose you are assuming that the political situation in China and Taiwan and between them will remain static for "years to come?"
And it has been clarified over and over again that "the intention of this thread is to keep people posted when news does pop up. Hence there is the word 'News' in the title." I don't understand why that has to be argued yet again.

A political issue that has repercussions in the aviation industry deserves a place here. Just because politics touches upon direct links doesn't mean we cannot discuss it. savethewtc has noted that these discussions are OK as long as they don't turn ugly - and they have not. I can turn it into high-level economics, which I have already done in my last post. Feel free to ask other moderators to come in and participate. I welcome them. People have expressed their hope for direct links to resume and no hostilities have broken out between members. That is the core of intellectual discussion and there is no reason to stop that.

I've talked to moderators such as savethewtc and Jan, and they're very approachable and friendly to issues. The key is independence, and not target on certain people's and ruin the thread for everyone. As Jan told me, "as a member of the staff I never get into discussions like this (although sometimes I really want to) and I recomment all others to do the same." A good community needs the cooperator of all members and prudent judgment by all moderators.

I repeat once more : I've said this is no place for political tensions, and my posts have reflected that. I hope not to see any more posts questioning the intention of this thread. That has been resolved. Now let's get back to the point with more high-level economic analysis :

Asian Airline Reaction to Taiwanese Direct Links - An Analysis Part 2

Asian airlines have been wary of the possibility of direct links for some time. The Hong Kong - Taiwan route is very lucrative. However, there is a lot of competition on the Hong Kong side for traffic. While HKG is a large international airport with lots of world connections, Macau's airport is also competing for some transit passengers. EVA, Air Macau, and Transasia have over 10 scheduled flights a day to Taipei and another 5 to Kaohsiung. Proportionately these are very large numbers because Macau is only a fraction the size of HKG.

In fact, Macau Airport's website has a section dedicated to simplified procedures for Taiwanese residents to transit through Macau and get visas to continue to China :

http://www.macau-airport.gov.mo/trav...lication.phtml
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Old May 10th, 2004, 01:58 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
You do realize that direct links are driven by political developments, don't you? Will aviation ties be restored because of demand, population, income, other other economic factors? No. Politics will drive the outcome. Wih so much uncertainty on the political front, economic quantification of the outcome is infeasible because there are so many unknown variables.

That's the political reality. If there are no inputs how do you produce the output? Hence economic impact analysis is not appropriate. Instead, generalizations and high-level explanations are more appropriate, which was done in my last post.

That does not mean people cannot have an intelligent discussion about how direct links are progressing or how they will impact the lives of all 3 stakeholders - China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan (which is stated in the title). In fact, there are no political tensions in here. You are the one who is most immersed in turning this into a political debate.



As usual you have an eye for taking things out of context and twisting my words. Had the discussion turned ugly, the moderators would have stepped in and shut down the thread. You malicious intent of ending intellectual discussion on direct links is dearly noted. I urge the moderators to take note of this person's attempt to shut the thread with these tit for tat posts.

In fact, you are the one who started discussing the political context behind direct links in posts 12 & 14 :





And it has been clarified over and over again that "the intention of this thread is to keep people posted when news does pop up. Hence there is the word 'News' in the title." I don't understand why that has to be argued yet again.

A political issue that has repercussions in the aviation industry deserves a place here. Just because politics touches upon direct links doesn't mean we cannot discuss it. savethewtc has noted that these discussions are OK as long as they don't turn ugly - and they have not. I can turn it into high-level economics, which I have already done in my last post. Feel free to ask other moderators to come in and participate. I welcome them. People have expressed their hope for direct links to resume and no hostilities have broken out between members. That is the core of intellectual discussion and there is no reason to stop that.

I've talked to moderators such as savethewtc and Jan, and they're very approachable and friendly to issues. The key is independence, and not target on certain people's and ruin the thread for everyone. As Jan told me, "as a member of the staff I never get into discussions like this (although sometimes I really want to) and I recomment all others to do the same." A good community needs the cooperator of all members and prudent judgment by all moderators.

I repeat once more : I've said this is no place for political tensions, and my posts have reflected that. I hope not to see any more posts questioning the intention of this thread. That has been resolved. Now let's get back to the point with more high-level economic analysis :

Asian Airline Reaction to Taiwanese Direct Links - An Analysis Part 2

Asian airlines have been wary of the possibility of direct links for some time. The Hong Kong - Taiwan route is very lucrative. However, there is a lot of competition on the Hong Kong side for traffic. While HKG is a large international airport with lots of world connections, Macau's airport is also competing for some transit passengers. EVA, Air Macau, and Transasia have over 10 scheduled flights a day to Taipei and another 5 to Kaohsiung. Proportionately these are very large numbers because Macau is only a fraction the size of HKG.

In fact, Macau Airport's website has a section dedicated to simplified procedures for Taiwanese residents to transit through Macau and get visas to continue to China :

http://www.macau-airport.gov.mo/trav...lication.phtml
Do you honestly think anyone needs to read that much into your post when my question, posted in #5:

Quote:
Originally Posted by huaiwei
I wonder what the impact will be like should there be direct triple cross-straight links.....
received an immediate answer in post #6 which goes like this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
Given the present political tensions that's not likely to happen even in the long term (5 years).
What has happpened has already happened, and my subsequent post in #24 was to put a stop to our political debates and turn it back into what it was supposed to be doing. If you again wish to let your imaginations run wild and try to imagine what was in my head when I made those posts, then I suppose I just have to leave it to you to do that alone?

Notice in post #24, I said

Quote:
Originally Posted by huaiwei
Isnt the topic about Cross Strait Aviation News? Or are we into politics now?
It's a "we." Not a "you." I am acknowledging that BOTH of us have been veering too much into politics, and I would like to put a stop to that. I am clearly admitting that I participated in a political discussion too, and I would like to ask if I am allowed to do that in YOUR thread!

What else would you like to infer from this?
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Old May 10th, 2004, 02:05 AM   #38
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Quote:
I wonder what the impact will be like should there be direct triple cross-straight links.....
Given the present political tensions that's not likely to happen even in the long term (5 years).
You call that a political debate? For simply saying the reason why your request for an impact analysis is irrelevant because of so many unknown variables? Did I go on to discuss politics after that? No. Stating it doesn't constitute inappropriateness does it? Since you didn't bother to read my response you wouldn't know what I'm talking about anyway. Ignorance often leads to misunderstanding.

So you ignore all the economic analysis I've done to go back to something that you have dreamed up and keep on beating it to death a million posts ago.
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Old May 10th, 2004, 02:16 AM   #39
huaiwei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline
You call that a political debate? For simply saying the reason why your request for an impact analysis is irrelevant because of so many unknown variables? Did I go on to discuss politics after that? No. Stating it doesn't constitute inappropriateness does it? Since you didn't bother to read my response you wouldn't know what I'm talking about anyway. Ignorance often leads to misunderstanding.

So you ignore all the economic analysis I've done to go back to something that you have dreamed up and keep on beating it to death a million posts ago.
Are you meaning to say, that all the subsequent posts from #6 onwards to #23 are not political in nature?

If so, why do you insist this topic is related to politics (which I agreed), as justification that political discussions should be allowed in here?

It is clearly political. No questions about it, and unfortunately, I have to add that it is not for you to judge. Sometimes, threads get deleted and the forumers dont even know why. I suppose I see a possible reason here....

But least you read too much between my lines again, I am NOT trying to suggest that I want this thread closed!
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Old May 11th, 2004, 01:32 AM   #40
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As others have mentioned, political discussions are fine in this forum, unless you want to abuse your moderator status to crackdown on any political discussion, even though the discussion has been peaceful, nobody has gone in depth to analyze the politics of cross strait relations, and nobody has fired off their cannons irrationally.

By merely acknowledging politics are the underlying driving force of cross strait aviation links is not a political discussion. A look at the variance between idealism and reality is not a political discussion either.

If you want to continue with your malicious attempt to steer this topic to a political discussion instead of the big picture analysis I've been talking about then you'll be in a lot of hot water.

Your malicious intention is dearly noted in your continuous ignorance of the true intent of this thread, which I've mentioned over and over again, and which you choose to ignore. The other moderators are well aware of your continual revival of politics even though it was solved long ago and will deal with inappropriate behaviour harshly.

And don't even threaten a peaceful and intellectual discussion to delete this thread for no reason. That's an abuse of power, and the members will not tolerate that. Perhaps you might not know what freedom of speech and responsibility are, but we practice it here.

Back to the point, here is a piece on Macau's stake in the Taiwan aviation market.

Monday May 10, 7:59 AM

Air MacAu Increases Cargo Services to Taiwan

MACAU, May 10 Asia Pulse - Air Macau's second Airbus A-300B-4F all-cargo aircraft kicked off direct cargo service between Macau and Taipei Sunday night, air transport industry sources said.

Air Macau will operate one round-trip cargo flight between Macau and Taipei each night to further boost cargo services between Taiwan and mainland China.

The daily Macau-Taipei all-cargo service is scheduled to arrive at Chiang Kai-shek International Airport at 10:40p.m. each day and return to Macau at around 3:10a.m. the next day, according to Air Macau authorities.

Air Macau initiated all-cargo flight services between Taipei and Shanghai via Macau April 15 of this year after the airline put its first Airbus A-300B-4F into service.

The Taipei-Macau-Shanghai cargo flight service has proved to be a success since its inception, with the daily cargo carrying rate averaging more than 80 percent, Air Macau authorities said.

Air Macau also announced Sunday that it is planning to open a new cargo service route connecting Taipei and mainland China's south-central city of Nanjing, also via Macau, from this June 1, with three round-trip flights per week.

On July 1, the airline will kick off yet another new all-cargo service route, connecting Taipei and mainland China's southern coastal city of Xiamen, with flights three times per week.

Air Macau has for long operated all-cargo flights between Taipei and the southern mainland Chinese industrial city of Shenzhen via Macau.

Altogether, Air Macau will operate a total of 114 all-cargo flights per week between Taiwan and mainland Chinese territory after July 1, the Air Macau authorities said.

Meanwhile, the airline kicked off its passenger flight services between Taipei and mainland China's southwestern city of Chengdu, via Macau, last month.

(CNA)
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