SYDNEY: Light Rail

[Eco-rat]

Originally Posted by Inego

The problem with this would be the Western Distributor - the light rail alignment at Rozelle Bay is approx. 5m above the road, necessitating a long bridge across the road and a raised junction for your suggested option.

Not impossible technically, of course, just far more expensive than utilising existing alignments.

I would suggest if it were built to LR-only standards (like STAR in KL) it would be plenty.

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?rlz=1...ed=0CA4Q8gEwAA (ignore the lines, just the points). I would suggest A and B as the alignment for the bridge, not knowing the exact vertical alignment at this point.

[Eco-rat]

I believe there has been rail in the past all the way to Grafton St in White Bay. Would be a good place for a ferry terminal as well, and besides the cruise ships if an Inner Harbour ferry took pax from the LR to McMahons Point etc, would be a quicker run than going via Sydney CBD.

And just thinking. Only one street section, Ewenton St, to get trams back to the old haunt in Darling St.

[Inego]

Given the "minimum cost" approach being taken to the light rail extension, any bridges etc are highly unlikely. Rozelle Bay stop is about 5m above the road alignment, but the road goes uphill to the west, with the LR then going underneath. Hence my comment about the most likely (although still unlikely IMHO) junction being past Catherine St.

A ferry stop in White Bay is more likely.....

[Eco-rat]

Originally Posted by Inego

Given the "minimum cost" approach being taken to the light rail extension, any bridges etc are highly unlikely. Rozelle Bay stop is about 5m above the road alignment, but the road goes uphill to the west, with the LR then going underneath. Hence my comment about the most likely (although still unlikely IMHO) junction being past Catherine St.

A ferry stop in White Bay is more likely.....

Thanks Inego, but I think its understood that ANY of what we are talking about is unlikely. But if someone actually cared...they could do it for a reasonable price.

I don't see any reason why the line couldn't go over the top the whole way. By the time the line physically crosses the road it could be six metres up, plenty of clearance.

This would cost a pretty penny - but would not seem such a hurdle to a government that actually wanted to maximise the value of investment in White Bay, not just some highrise, but poorly connected, area like so many now appearing in Sydney.

And I regret Sydferries wasn't sold (or just disbanded) and left much more to the market, with some specific outcomes specified by government if felt fit.

[Inego]

I'm not a particular supporter of the proposed light rail extension as the area is already well served by public transport compared to many parts of Sydney. It will improve things for the Abergeldie Estate (in which densities are unlikely to increase) and the proposed Lewisham development, but doesn't seem worthwhile for just that.

The White Bay spur could be worthwhile if the Metro was integrated with the Gov't buses - feed at least some of the buses down there and push people onto the light rail to reduce the traffic problems (and bus capacity issues) from the Balmain Peninsula.

But a junction at Rozelle Bay - there will be genetically modified pigs with wings before this happens (although giving the pigs wings is the easy part - modifying their skeletons to reduce weight and get them into the air is a whole other story!)

[OZ Rails]

I really hope they can get a good solution for light rail to heavy rail transfers at Lewisham. If this works properly and Cityrail has western line trains stopping at this station as well as inner west/ main south trains you could see passengers from Bankstown and the inner west using the light rail to transfer to trains that go not only to the CBD but straight to Parramatta or the North Shore employment centres. This will work better post Western express line though but can still be done before.

[SinCity]

The extension to Dulwich Hill is all nice but the real requirement is for a CBD loop.

Its hardly beneficial for people using light rail to end up at Haymarket or Central but need to travel those few extra kms into the core of the CBD such as Town Hall, Wynyard, Circular Quay, etc.

This is where the real challenge will be!

Running a line up Sussex St and Hickson Rd is fine but it also needs to go down the spine of George street with preferably a similar loop covering the eastern side of the CBD via Elizabeth Street.

The real problem here is the contention with buses and private cars.

A proper CBD loop is the only way you will get a massive transition of passengers to a light rail network.

Beyond that you can run future lines down to Victoria Park/Zetland, along Anzac Pde to La Perouse, etc.

[hornetfig]

Originally Posted by motion

this will be axed - besides state govt only have few months left before they r given boot. i doubt this will go ahead just passing time.

It's cheap and tokenistic. It's precisely what the NSW government is good at.

[westender]

Originally Posted by OZ Rails

I really hope they can get a good solution for light rail to heavy rail transfers at Lewisham. If this works properly and Cityrail has western line trains stopping at this station as well as inner west/ main south trains you could see passengers from Bankstown and the inner west using the light rail to transfer to trains that go not only to the CBD but straight to Parramatta or the North Shore employment centres. This will work better post Western express line though but can still be done before.

Hopefully before the extension is operating, the Homebush turn-back will be integrated into the CityRail network and a new timetable is operating. This should mean more chances of catching an Inner-West line train at Lewisham without waiting a long time- unlike now where it can be hit and miss.

Lewisham is only a handful of stations from Strathfield where numerous connections can be made, such as; the Blue Mountains line and Newcastle and Central Coast line.

I don't think extra CityRail lines need to be added to Lewisham.

At Lewisham passengers only need to travel a handful of stations east to change at Redfern for obvious connections.

[Inego]

It's a brisk 20 minute walk from Dulwich Hill station to Lewisham station (I live 2 blocks west of D Hill). Without integrated ticketed I can't see that there'll be a lot of extra transfers due to the light rail extension.

[historyworks]

Originally Posted by hornetfig

It's cheap and tokenistic. It's precisely what the NSW government is good at.

More like a drowning man clutching at the last straw in this case.

[OZ Rails]

Originally Posted by westender

Hopefully before the extension is operating, the Homebush turn-back will be integrated into the CityRail network and a new timetable is operating. This should mean more chances of catching an Inner-West line train at Lewisham without waiting a long time- unlike now where it can be hit and miss.

Lewisham is only a handful of stations from Strathfield where numerous connections can be made, such as; the Blue Mountains line and Newcastle and Central Coast line.

I don't think extra CityRail lines need to be added to Lewisham.

At Lewisham passengers only need to travel a handful of stations east to change at Redfern for obvious connections.

Bugger, I just looked using google maps and it would be very hard to add another platform. Pity as the Inner West line is fine for the CBD. However it would be great if for the other lines you didnt have to make people change three times at already crowded stations. What would have been nice is when the Western Express/ relief line is completed the Western/ North Shore trains remaining on the Suburban line could stop at Lewisham allowing direct connection to Parramatta CBD or any of the North Shore employment centres for light rail users.

Screw it, rebuild the station closer to the light rail line with a proper interchange

[aussieboy]

^
the inner west line should be made into a metro, running homebush>>city circle>>regents park - with 3mins frequencies all day and lower trip times from better acceleration, interchange at lewisham would be much more attractive

some kind of moving walkway or chairlift or funicular would be needed though

[MisterMarcus]

I'm sure Sydneysiders can explain but I still don't get the logic in extending the light rail to Lewisham and Dulwich Hill. These areas are already pretty well served by public transport, with two rail lines in the area. And it's a pretty meandering and slow route for these people to get to the city.....even for Darling Harbour it would be quicker to catch a train to Central and jump on the existing light rail.

I'd have thought the Anzac/S.E. route would be much higher priority, given that area is poorly served by transport and has traffic nightmares. Plus you've got some potentially big trip generators down there in UNSW, racecourse, sports stadiums, etc, and increasingly high density living along Anzac through Kensington to Kingsford. In contrast the Dulwich Hill line seem to run around the back end of suburbs.

[Eco-rat]

Originally Posted by MisterMarcus

I'm sure Sydneysiders can explain but I still don't get the logic in extending the light rail to Lewisham and Dulwich Hill. These areas are already pretty well served by public transport, with two rail lines in the area. And it's a pretty meandering and slow route for these people to get to the city.....even for Darling Harbour it would be quicker to catch a train to Central and jump on the existing light rail.

I'd have thought the Anzac/S.E. route would be much higher priority, given that area is poorly served by transport and has traffic nightmares. Plus you've got some potentially big trip generators down there in UNSW, racecourse, sports stadiums, etc, and increasingly high density living along Anzac through Kensington to Kingsford. In contrast the Dulwich Hill line seem to run around the back end of suburbs.

The logic, if you can call it that, is that there is an abandoned freight line sitting there. ie no logic actually. You don't see light rail out of Welshpool in Perth, Newstead in Brisbane or Mont Park in Melbourne simply because someone abandoned a freight line.

It was a bone to throw the dogs who might vote Green in those seats if no fixed rail improvements were made.

But remember too, if you are not from Sydney, there is a planning instrument that says that as soon as a railway station is built (or high capacity PT facility or whatever it is), magically the land around it is rezoned to high density. So all these 'back ends' you've mentioned become eligible for apartment buildings.

[Eco-rat]

Originally Posted by aussieboy

^
the inner west line should be made into a metro, running homebush>>city circle>>regents park - with 3mins frequencies all day and lower trip times from better acceleration, interchange at lewisham would be much more attractive

some kind of moving walkway or chairlift or funicular would be needed though

I don't disagree with the metro idea, except the Light Rail system as built is pretty close to what is required now, besides the street running section, which really should be separate. The proposed frequency is 12 minutely which is probably not enough to be really attractive.

I wouldn't worry about Lewisham. If they can sort out ped access by neat, covered and lit footpaths, and a lift for the disabled, 300 metres is not too much. Should take a fit person a few minutes to walk the distance. If you can walk at 5km/h then you should cover 300 metres in 5 minutes.

The major threats to that are at the ped level (poorly maintained and laid out footpaths, ped crossings in the wrong place, long light cycles, indirect routes, platform barriers and so on).

Of course if they could have NOT rebuilt Lewisham under Greiner in the wrong place, we wouldn't have this problem.

[Sky_Is_The_Limit]

Originally Posted by SinCity

The extension to Dulwich Hill is all nice but the real requirement is for a CBD loop.

Its hardly beneficial for people using light rail to end up at Haymarket or Central but need to travel those few extra kms into the core of the CBD such as Town Hall, Wynyard, Circular Quay, etc.

This is where the real challenge will be!

Running a line up Sussex St and Hickson Rd is fine but it also needs to go down the spine of George street with preferably a similar loop covering the eastern side of the CBD via Elizabeth Street.

The real problem here is the contention with buses and private cars.

A proper CBD loop is the only way you will get a massive transition of passengers to a light rail network.

Beyond that you can run future lines down to Victoria Park/Zetland, along Anzac Pde to La Perouse, etc.

I think that Castlereagh Street is the best option for a route down the eastern side of the city.

Elizabeth Street should continue to carry buses and traffic because it is wider and two way, making it more able to cope with potential changes to CBD traffic flow.

[MILIUX]

THE light rail extension is on the way and now there’s talk of bringing trams back to Glebe Point Rd.

Sydney Council is investigating turning Harold Park’s old trams into travelling restaurants which would carry diners along some the original tram routes.

Councillors agreed to look into the cost of restoring and relocating the six trams rusting away in Harold Park’s sheds.

Cr John McInerney said once restored, the trams would be a valuable tourist attraction if they were used for restaurants or historic tours.

‘’They still work, these things, and they are fabulous trams,’’ he said.

The trams could run on the existing light rail tracks, as well as the proposed extensions along George St in the city and to Dulwich Hill, he said.

But Cr McInerney said dreams of seeing the trams, which include the last tram to run on the Sydney tramway system, back on their old routes along Glebe Point Rd were still a long way off.

Four other trams housed at Harold Park had previously been used to service the line next to Harold Park. The council is also investigating the option of keeping some trams at Harold Park, as well as the possibility of housing others in the Sydney Tram Museum or the City Tram Association.

Glebe Society president Lesley Lynch welcomed enthusiastically the idea of restaurant trams, saying she believed they would be ‘’immensely popular’’.

‘’People love that sort of stuff,” Ms Lynch said. ‘’And to have the restored trams running would be fantastic.’’

The council estimated relocating the trams could cost about $30,000.

http://sydney-central.whereilive.com...ld-park-trams/

[MILIUX]

Sydney skaters are so desperate for places to skate they have taken to hitching a ride on the back of trams and underground car parks to get a dangerous thrill.

Central’s pictures of young skaters latching on to the back of light rail trams in Chinatown show the lengths to which bored skaters will go in the absence of legal spaces to skate.

Sydney skaters have been crying out for more spaces to skate in the central Sydney area for years and were bitterly disappointed last month when Sydney Council ditched yet another proposal for a skate park at the last minute.

Skateboarding advocate John Fox has collected more than 1000 signatures on a petition calling on the council to build a skate park in the city.

He said skaters were painted with a negative brush for their behaviour but said blame lay with local authorities who neglected skaters.

“Grabbing on to a tram or a bus is not on, but the average skater is a teenage boy: They’re young and thrill seeking and they don’t have a sense of danger, just one of adventure,” said Mr Fox.

“A skate park is obviously a much safer option for these kids, but in the absence of facilities we will see this sort of activity unfortunately,’’ he said.

Mr Fox said the nearest skate parks were in Waterloo and Bondi Beach.

“You don’t leave basketball players and football players to play in back alleys, so why deny skaters somewhere to skate?” he asked.

A 2006 study by Sydney Council found at least 2000 potential skateboarders living within the City of Sydney, and around 56,000 skateboarders living within 20 kilometres of the CBD.

Skaters believe a few noisy residents opposed to the idea had scuttled plans for a skate park at Prince Alfred Park, Surry Hills, in 2007 and last month at another suggested location under the Western Distributor at Millers Point.

The Millers Point proposal initially seemed to have the majority of councillors on side but following a protracted campaign by residents of the Observatory Tower apartment complex only the two Greens and one Labour councillor supported the idea.

Lord Mayor Clover Moore’s last minute back down on the Millers Point proposal was the final nail in the coffin.

“These views of the residents regarding antisocial behaviour are also the views of the public housing tenants,’’ Lord Mayor Clover Moore said.

“When staff showed me the location under the Western Distributor last year, it appeared to provide a workable solution. I understand that skaters will be disappointed but the space under the Western Distributor could not have provided the world-class facility that many skaters hope will be created.”

Mr Fox said the residents’ fears about noise were exaggerated.

http://sydney-central.whereilive.com...angerous-ride/

“Roads are noisier than skate parks,” he said.

[westender]

Originally Posted by OZ Rails

Screw it, rebuild the station closer to the light rail line with a proper interchange

At Wimbledon station in London, one platform serves the Croydon Tramlink. At East Croydon station - where trains operate between places like; London Victoria, Gatwick Airport and Brighton - the tram stops right out the front of the station. Pitty Lewisham wasn't close enough to the proposed tram line.

But it does not look too far to walk any way, if proper predestian connections are put in place.

Hopefully if the extended line does create more demand for the lightrail service that more people would start demanding it to be part of the MyZone. It could be a case of satisfying share-holders of Sydney Metro Lightrail that a changed fare system would still benifit them financially.