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Old December 11th, 2009, 05:38 AM   #61
mgk920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xusein View Post
The irony about the US rail system is that the region that has the most passenger usage (Northeast US) has the weakest freight infrastructure.
Agreed - NYC is the 'poster child' of this as something like 90% of all freight that moves into and out of NYC and Long Island has to travel by truck. There has been some top-level discussion of building a double-track freight railroad tunnel, big enough to clear double-stacked containers, under the NYC harbor between New Jersey (the Middletown area?) and Brooklyn as a way of removing some of that crushing load of truck traffic from NYC area bridges, tunnels, expressways and surface streets, but I have not heard much about that idea in the last few years.

Right now, the southernmost place where a standard-sized North American freight railroad car can cross the Hudson River is just south of Albany, NY, using a bridge that is parallel and adjacent to the New York State Thruway's Berkshire Extension crossing.

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Old December 11th, 2009, 06:00 AM   #62
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A few examples of the fairly new General Electric Evolution series of diesel locomotives. As of 2009 over 3500 are in operation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Evolution_Series


SP8254 @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/sp8254/1364524336/

El Cobrador @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3661412597/

Harry Gaydosz @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrygaydosz/2673043114/

rockislandlines @ http://www.flickr.com/photos/rockisl...7603635464743/
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Old December 11th, 2009, 06:05 AM   #63
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Northeast everything , is greater then the rest of the country, Roads , Rails , Seaports , Cities , there just better and maintained better , we may not be a Europe Network , but were getting there. Although None of New York states cities have a Light Rail line except the small Buffalo line, New York state is also the only state that i can't seem to find 2030 plans. The Focus here is restoration of old Passenger Rail lines and converting some freight lines into Passenger service. A Major Restoration project is the Lackawanna Cutoff here in Western Jersey & Eastern PA , starts in Andover,NJ , runs into PA via the Delaware Water Gap , goes past college towns and a resort town & Ends up in the City of Scranton a major Northeastern PA city , with future possible extensions to Binghamton,NY This project will open in 2021 or 25 , its waiting like the rest of the NE projects for the ARC project to open. The New Tunnel & Station form NJ to NY. Another project is extending Raritan Valley line back to Philpsburgh,NJ , Easton,PA , Bethlehem , PA , & Allentown ,PA major cities that are served only by I-78 to NYC & have alot of Super commuters. Septa wants to restore service to Bethlehem , due to the new Casino that just opened there. Septa also wants to restore service to Reading,PA. Metro Harrisburg , wants to Add a commuter Rail line to the keystone corridor between Harrisburg & Lancaster due too growing population & possibly a line to Hershey's , Lebanon , & Reading. Since HSR is unofficial dead in the NE , and High Speed Commuter lines are in because there cheaper, and attract more people. as for Freight i think its time it went electric in the Northeast, and they need to stop hogging the network, and work together.

Heres some more videos

Northeast Corridor , Woodbourne,PA




Tour of the Acela Express , on National Train Day



Secacuse JCT , Hoboken Terminal & Newark Penn Station, NJ's 3 busiest stations



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Old December 12th, 2009, 06:58 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
Not only are railroads (other than for non-connected tram and LRT lines) fully standardized in the USA, but they are also 100% compatible with the railroads in both Canada and Mexico and the three countries regularly interchange a LOT of rail freight traffic between them.

Also, besides the far stronger couplers used here in North America (China and Australia plus a few other countries also use North American rail standards) - stronger than those used in Europe by a factor of eight - but also loading gauges in North America are far more generous than those of Europe. Note that in those above video clips that North American railroads can easily handle double-stacked containers while some railroads in Europe have such *TINY* tunnel bores that specialized 'low floor' cars are needed to be able to run *single* stacked containers on them. When double-stacked containers became common here (1980s), all that some railroads had to do to be able to handle them was to cut small 'notches' into the upper corners of some tunnels.

It would cast a real fortune to rebuild most European lines to be able to clear the same freight and some passenger trains that can run here in North America - think of the cost and hassles of adopting North American couplers, beefing up the electrical power systems and track structures and then lengthening yard tracks and passing sidings to be able to handle those much longer, bigger and heavier trains. North American railroads often run those double-stacked container trains up to 3 km long and full coal trains will easily reach 15.000t.

Mike



Here we run some 10.000 tons of coal every day and that means mixing coal trains at 100km/h with all the other traffic ... what use would a single 10.000ton coal train have if it meant that the railway would be ocupied by a slowish freighter ???

A long roundabound route filled with a couple of 400m long coal trains (2500ton each) are suficient to maintain the power plants operating ... no need for those long and ultra-heavy trains.
sidenotice: coal trains over here use american couplers and electric lomomotives (a pair of CP5600 has some 14.400hp)


In the same manner a Post-Panamax container transport can be loaded/unloaded in a timely manner and all cargo transported to intermodal terminals hundreds of quilometers away without the need for double stackers.

This mixed with faster passenger trains ... the bottom line is that nowhere in europe is there a need for mile-long trins ... the big haulage dispute is between single-truck transport and small door-to-door rail transport.

Heres some examples:













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Old December 12th, 2009, 07:12 PM   #65
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I think the biggest factor is that there is no demand for passenger services in the US. If the population suddenly decided to use trains more frequently, the railway network of the US would be as good or better than in Europe.
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Old December 13th, 2009, 02:00 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
I'm not being mean, just honest...anyway the NEC is fine, its just the rest which has suffered neglect...
That isn't true. The NEC in the U.S. is mediocre by British standards, and Britain has the worst rail network of any major western European nation. In Britais the main rail lines are capable of handling trains going up to 125-140 mph. The NEC can only do that in a couple of short stretches.
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Old December 13th, 2009, 02:02 AM   #67
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I think the biggest factor is that there is no demand for passenger services in the US. If the population suddenly decided to use trains more frequently, the railway network of the US would be as good or better than in Europe.
How can the population "decide" to use trains when most communities are either not served or are severely under served by rail?

Should I stand next to the lone rail line that runs through my town and hop on the next coal train that passes by?

When the U.S. government spends 10X as much money on roads as it does rail transit, what do you expect people to use? U.S. transportation policy has catered to the car for fifty five years-what do you expect people to use.

And prior to the recession, which caused all forms of travel to decline. Amtrak was posting record ridership numbers. People are using trains where they are available. And even more would use them if they went faster and to more places.
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Old December 13th, 2009, 03:23 AM   #68
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In Europe, passenger rail accounts for less than 20% of overall passenger traffic don neither by walink or cycling.
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Old December 13th, 2009, 03:50 AM   #69
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I'd love to compare the percentage when talking about the peak hours. I'm fairly certain that in most urban areas the percentage of people using the train over a car would be around or over 40%... But that's not a discussion we need here since we're comparing RAILnetworks.

I can't think of any other big differences for now...

Greetings,
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Old December 13th, 2009, 03:56 AM   #70
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DanielFigeryFoz : Thats not true , where do you get those facts , Theres Very high demand here in Northeast , there restoring alot of old lines & Taking Advantage of Freight Company sell offs of Right Aways , At least 20-40 lines over the next 2 decades will be built or restored for Commuter or Light Rail use. Outside the NE , i can't speak.

hoosier : The NEC is slowly getting upgraded to withstand 150-170mph trains the entire length , NYC & CT need massive upgrades , like Bridge replacement & and Track realignment , CT Rail network is growing , since it feeds into the NEC eventually , i think the Tracks need to get double to 4 Tracks not 2 , but this would be hard , because theres almost no space. NYC is just plain old , but i think if done right u can upgrade the 2 Tunnels that feed into Manhattan , NJT is , but i don't think Amtrak will Use them. But when the New NJT tunnel is completed Amtrak will have more space since the current tunnels are maxed out.

Overall Transit & Rail will get better , you should look at the 2030 plans for most Transit System , already 7 of NJT and 5 of Septa Projects have been completed

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Old December 13th, 2009, 12:06 PM   #71
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Quote:
I think the biggest factor is that there is no demand for passenger services in the US. If the population suddenly decided to use trains more frequently, the railway network of the US would be as good or better than in Europe.
It's rather the other way around: the reason not more people travel is not because they don't want to, but because the service and network are so bad.
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Old December 14th, 2009, 09:03 PM   #72
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It's rather the other way around: the reason not more people travel is not because they don't want to, but because the service and network are so bad.
Not only that, but the sub-urban nature of the US, enormous distances, and lower population density than europe make it economically unfeasible to build long-range HSR networks. Even at 380 kph going from NY lo LA is as ridiculous as taking a HS train from London to Istambul.

That is no to say about the market for state and regional trains.
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Old December 14th, 2009, 09:24 PM   #73
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Land area:

US lower 48 > Portugal + Spain + France + Italy + Germany + Switzerland + Austria + Netherlands + Belgium + Poland + Checz + Slovakia + Hungay + Bulgary + Croatia + Slovenia + Romania + Liechtenstein + Monaco + San Marino + Andorra + Luxembourg
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Old December 15th, 2009, 11:30 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ternarydaemon View Post
Not only that, but the sub-urban nature of the US, enormous distances, and lower population density than europe make it economically unfeasible to build long-range HSR networks. Even at 380 kph going from NY lo LA is as ridiculous as taking a HS train from London to Istambul.

That is no to say about the market for state and regional trains.
The suburban nature is indeed a (homemade) problem, after all the US orginally came from a situation where everything was oriented towards rail only 100 year ago, while new towns and cities may not be affected by this most of the big urban centres are.

The distances argument is just lame however. No one is suggesting that rail for the trip NY - LA makes any sense, you have aviation for that. Fact is however, that the US has huge agglomarations where a considerable number of its citizens live. The east coast is an example. There exists a massive mobility demand there with distances well below 1500 km and countless major urban centres with lots of people. The East Coast is by far not the only example. The US could have a lot of feasible passenger rail corridors if it chose to have them. Geography is not the obstacle.

Distances maybe up to NYC-Chicago could be perfectly feasible with a really fast high speed rail.
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Old December 16th, 2009, 01:26 AM   #75
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The suburban nature is indeed a (homemade) problem, after all the US orginally came from a situation where everything was oriented towards rail only 100 year ago, while new towns and cities may not be affected by this most of the big urban centres are.

The distances argument is just lame however. No one is suggesting that rail for the trip NY - LA makes any sense, you have aviation for that. Fact is however, that the US has huge agglomarations where a considerable number of its citizens live. The east coast is an example. There exists a massive mobility demand there with distances well below 1500 km and countless major urban centres with lots of people. The East Coast is by far not the only example. The US could have a lot of feasible passenger rail corridors if it chose to have them. Geography is not the obstacle.

Distances maybe up to NYC-Chicago could be perfectly feasible with a really fast high speed rail.
Two thirds or more of the US population lives east of the Mississippi and Texas which is I think less than half the area of the lower 48. That's comparable to Western Europe, but still a lot lower density overall. The economics aren't as good as in Europe but there's still a case for HST.

The lower density suburbs of the US are more a consequence of moving from rail to car. The US rail network was quite extensive, always oriented to freight, and with passenger services able to go to the heart of cities. People have to want to live in low density suburbs too, and there has to be the space for them. Some people also like to live in high density areas and the US has them too, where there were urban railways. Inner New York is high density. but the outer suburbs are very low density - outer NYC is like LA is throughout. It's a cultural thing too - most countries outside the US have high density cities and fairly high density suburbs, with only a few like Australia and the UK preferring suburbs. If the US is to move more to commuter and urban rail it will need to take into account these factors.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 05:52 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ternarydaemon View Post
Not only that, but the sub-urban nature of the US, enormous distances, and lower population density than europe make it economically unfeasible to build long-range HSR networks. Even at 380 kph going from NY lo LA is as ridiculous as taking a HS train from London to Istambul.

That is no to say about the market for state and regional trains.

Corunha-Porto-Lisboa-Sevilla = 1000km of HSR built planned
Cadis-Sevilla-Madrid-bilbao = 850km of HSr built or in construction

Lisboa-Salamanca-Bordeus-Paris-Brussels-Amesterdam = 2000Km of HSL

Lisboa-Madrid-Barcelona-Lyon-Paris-London-birmingham-Manchester-York-Edimburg-Glasgow = 3500km of HSL build or in construction/planned
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Old December 17th, 2009, 06:02 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ternarydaemon View Post
Not only that, but the sub-urban nature of the US, enormous distances, and lower population density than europe make it economically unfeasible to build long-range HSR networks. Even at 380 kph going from NY lo LA is as ridiculous as taking a HS train from London to Istambul.
There are absolutely no proposals for a national HSR network. All are either interregional or intrastate, which are entirely feasible.
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Old December 17th, 2009, 07:04 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ternarydaemon View Post
Not only that, but the sub-urban nature of the US, enormous distances, and lower population density than europe make it economically unfeasible to build long-range HSR networks. Even at 380 kph going from NY lo LA is as ridiculous as taking a HS train from London to Istambul.

That is no to say about the market for state and regional trains.
the 3 main reasons to ACTUALLY build any kind of HSRnetwork are ALL against your kind of argumentation.


1- park-and-ride stations favour large and disperse urban areas ...
2- airports are very well served with park-and-ride stil HSR stations ...
3- comute-away cities are better served by medium haul HSR than by air ...
4- Major HUB congestion could be aliviated by creating regional rail around it ...


Some examples:

1- Atlanta (Georgia) = clear win/win situation with a station in the airport
Atlanta-Columbus HSL diverging to serve Montgomery-Mobile-NewOrleans and northwest florida
The same in each and every other direction ...

Easy Rule of thumb:

1- If a large metropolitan area (over 1 million people) is less than 200miles away from another start to BUILD a DEDICATED +200mph HSR IMEDIATELY
2- If a medium sized city is less than 200 miles away from one of the above start to plan for 125/200mph HSR as soon as possible
3- If two medium sized cities are 100miles away build a 100/125mph railway ASAP

If you start to draw lines on the map you end up drawing a LOT of routes ... almost entirely recreating the actual railroad map of america.

Add to these 3 basic premises these other 3:

1- Any town where you NEED to drive por more than 15 minutes to go from one side to the other would have NEEDED a RapidTransit system 50 years ago ... build it if it doesn't already exist.
2- if there are more than enough small towns scatered around a city then build a comuter service to link them together in a dense network
3- most airports would benefit from being connected to the rail networ and would benefit from direct acess to town centers by rail.


Another rant about random examples:

Atlanta(airport) could serve as a MAJOR HSR hub with connections to any major/medium city in a 400 mile range ... that means central florida , indianapolis , washington , st.louis , houston and others are on the limit of it's reach ... anything over that would still benefit from the AIR HUB located there ... nonetheless all of the above (and eveything in between) would benefit from such a service.


(cont.)
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Old December 28th, 2009, 09:21 PM   #79
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Malmbanan = dual-body electric locos hauling 8000ton ore trains

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Old January 16th, 2010, 06:51 AM   #80
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Union Pacific dispatches company record long train

A nearly 5.5 km long test train was dispatched by Union Pacific a few days ago, it ran from the Dallas, TX area to the port of Long Beach, CA, carrying over 600 containers of USA-made goods for export.



(video shot in Montebello, CA)

Enjoy!



Mike
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