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Old November 3rd, 2004, 11:34 PM   #41
Þróndeimr
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Nice, i really hope they make this concept good enouth. They have some very good concept here, i really don't hope they ruins it by choosing the wrong type of facade when they comes to that decission.


Like this one, it can become a beautiful tower, but this tower can also become a copy of KPMG Bygget, and that would start a huge opposition again. Well, they will probably start some opposition anyway...
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Old November 3rd, 2004, 11:53 PM   #42
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True.

Well, this will be exiting times
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Old November 4th, 2004, 01:49 PM   #43
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^
Yep. Thanks for the yesterday's heads-up in MSN. As I said there, Oslo's cluster is growing a bit.
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Old November 4th, 2004, 02:18 PM   #44
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http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/...rse/2007_1.jpg
Looks nice, that area definitely needs more taller buildings.
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Old November 28th, 2004, 04:44 PM   #45
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3 different teams have been brainstorming over how to develop former harbor areas in Oslo. The 3 teams are named “Oslo Large”, “Oslo Network” and “Oslo Park”, and they have based their suggestions on different sets of totally unrealistic assumptions. Here are their suggestions:

Filipstad

Oslo Large's suggestion


Oslo Network's suggestion


Oslo Park's suggestion


Vippetangen

Oslo Large's suggestion


Oslo Network's suggestion


Oslo Park's suggestion


Kongshamn

Oslo Large's suggestion


Oslo Network's suggestion


Oslo Park's suggestion


Here are my opinions of the different areas:

Filipstad: This area needs a much higher density than any of the plans suggest. I like the idea of digging canals though, but would prefer if they made the whole area into an island, preferrably with skyscrapers on. Like a small version of Manhattan

Vippetangen: This area calls for non-intrusive architecture, and the plan presented by the “Oslo Large”-team seems to have taken this into account.

Kongshamn: The “Oslo Park”-team's suggestion with a row of residential highrises overlooking an artificial beach is awesome. This idea should definitely be further developed.

Edit: Here is an article (Nor)

Last edited by NiceGuy; November 28th, 2004 at 05:11 PM.
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Old November 28th, 2004, 10:49 PM   #46
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lol Filipstad is a town not far from here,.It lies between Karlstad and Uppsala/stockholm. I guess there's a whole bunch of them here in Scandinavia
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Old November 29th, 2004, 08:06 AM   #47
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Thanks NiceGuy! I've read about these 3 scenarios, but not seen any scetches of them.

Quote:
The 3 teams are named ?Oslo Large?, ?Oslo Network? and ?Oslo Park?, and they have based their suggestions on different sets of totally unrealistic assumptions
Yeah, that's what I thought aswell!
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Old November 29th, 2004, 11:57 AM   #48
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There will be an exhibit that opens today at 16:00. It would be cool to show up and have a chat with Grete Horntvedt and Ellen S. de Vibe about city planning...

http://www.oslo.kommune.no/fjordbyen...page=&Id=97109
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Old November 29th, 2004, 12:35 PM   #49
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That would indeed be interesting. Ellen S. de Vibe has spoke possitively about building higher before. So has Plan & Bygningsetaten, wich she administrates. You can find all the document they made about highrises here: http://www.plan-og-bygningsetaten.os...age=/&id=36192. Unfortunately politicans in this city are not in touch with realities, and think that to continue building 5-6 floors will be sufficient to satisfy the need for housing in the future

I can not make it to the opening today, but will surely try to go visit it another day, as it will be open until 19 dec...
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Old November 30th, 2004, 10:26 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiceGuy
they have based their suggestions on different sets of totally unrealistic assumptions.


Sorry, NiceGuy! But I just had to say this. So many plans are based on unrealistic assumptions! And, based on those faulty assumptions, alas they're bound to do more harm than good.

That really is a shame and a disgrace. Cities are able to collect accurate information and should do so before giving the go-ahead to plans that are not backed up by accurate information. So the citizens should hold them to doing just that. Otherwise city government is irresponsible.

Wishful thinking and inaccurate analysis are a bad starting point for any planning effort. I can sing a song or two about that experience myself.
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Old November 30th, 2004, 11:09 AM   #51
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It's not really assumptions like that, but rather different ideas of in what ways Oslo should develop, in a 20-30 years perspective.
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Old November 30th, 2004, 11:14 AM   #52
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Now that makes things even more complicated!

Different perceptions are sometimes hard to reconcile.
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Old November 30th, 2004, 11:23 AM   #53
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I will try to translate them later today
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Old November 30th, 2004, 11:37 AM   #54
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That would be very helpful, NorthStar. Thank you! And of course it would take a knowledgeable local to interpret all this stuff for us, and we're lucky to have you!

On the other hand, I'd love to hear Nice Guy's perspective as well.
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Old November 30th, 2004, 11:51 AM   #55
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/\ me too! Two heads think better than one, as we say
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Old November 30th, 2004, 12:08 PM   #56
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In other words: any light you gentlemen can shed on these plans is warmly welcome and appreciated, even if you might have different opinions!
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Old November 30th, 2004, 02:55 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whose Homepage


Sorry, NiceGuy! But I just had to say this. So many plans are based on unrealistic assumptions! And, based on those faulty assumptions, alas they're bound to do more harm than good.

That really is a shame and a disgrace. Cities are able to collect accurate information and should do so before giving the go-ahead to plans that are not backed up by accurate information. So the citizens should hold them to doing just that. Otherwise city government is irresponsible.

Wishful thinking and inaccurate analysis are a bad starting point for any planning effort. I can sing a song or two about that experience myself.
I totally agree with you, but the politicians that are in charge are unfortunately hopeless idealists that have some really strange ideas about how the world works. It also seems like they have a general dislike of hard facts.

These plans are by no means final, and none of them will be implemented. I actually think there will be competitions for the different areas (Filipstad, Vippetangen, Kongshavn) later, maybe in a few years time. This was more like a brainstorming session, meant to inspire to further debate and give an idea of what we can expect. They did, however, base their suggestions on different scenarios of the future needs of the city. This is what the different scenarios meant for city planning:

(translation from http://www.tu.no/nyheter/bygg/article30586.ece )

Oslo Network: The seafront is a sequence of different neighborhoods with their individual character and identity.

Oslo Park: The seafront is an arena for physical activities and events. Oslo's image as the blue and green capital is emphasized through the construction of an international theme park on Filipstad, multicultural zone along Vippetangen, and a maritime park between the fiord islands and Kongshavn.

Oslo Large: The seafront is developed with focus on new experiences, with research & development, large institutions, versatile industries, and tall and dense residential areas. Filipstad is developed as into an Energy-park.

(/translation from http://www.tu.no/nyheter/bygg/article30586.ece )
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Old November 30th, 2004, 04:03 PM   #58
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Thanks for explaining and translating NiceGuy. I agree with every word you said there. No need for me to come with further inputs
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Old November 30th, 2004, 04:33 PM   #59
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Meh, I hate when architects go "Oh, let's be artsy and create these renders / drawings that have absolutely no basis on reality" (like http://img84.exs.cx/img84/535/OsloNetwork-Kongshamn.jpg and http://img84.exs.cx/img84/1957/OsloN...-Filipstad.jpg). Give me proper models any day over these ones.
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Old November 30th, 2004, 05:42 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStar77
Thanks for explaining and translating NiceGuy. I agree with every word you said there. No need for me to come with further inputs
Thanks I would also like to state some of the hard facts that I think should have been taken into account though.

First of all, people nowadays seems to prefer to live in the actual city center. It didn't use to be like this, and this have lead to a shortage of apartments downtown. The result is astronomical real estate prices, and now even the cheapest flats cost more than 2.000.000 NOK (245.000€) in the city center.

Secondly, there is no need to build more office buildings in Oslo. There is actually so many vacant office blocks in this city that some of them had to be rebuilt to apartment blocks to prevent the owners of going bankrupt.

Thirdly, current city planning is not very good for the environment as it relies too heavily on cars as the only means of transportation. The Oslo Suburbia now stretches up to 100 kilometers away from central parts of the city and it is getting worse every single year. An average car releases 3 times its own weight in CO2 each year and this makes the car the main polluter in Oslo. A denser city plan would reduce the average transportation distances and thereby also the pollution.

Fourth; trying to preserve Oslo as it is today is completely ridiculous. We simply don't have any old historical city center in the same way that cities like Rome, Amsterdam and Tallinn do, and we will never be able to successfully brand our city as an old city. We do on the other hand have a good chance when it comes to making our city modern and futuristic. That should be our niche.

Fifth: The only thing that in my humble opinion make Oslo a unique city is the hundreds of square kilometers of evergreen forest surrounding it. This forest should therefore be protected at all costs, but this will limit our city's geographic growth.

In my opinion, all the facts point in one direction: more dense modern housing downtown. No matter how you look at it, residential skyscrapers is the most efficient way of accomplishing this. The ideal areas for this is in my opinion Bjørvika and to some extent also Filipstad.
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