Sunrail Commuter Rail System

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by Nexis

I'm for Rail and Transit , i'm just tired of these Expansions to nowhere....there making Rail in General look bad....and the idea if you build it they will come isn't really working outside Charlotte and Miami. Houston got it right , but Dallas doesn't and a few other cities.

The Charlotte and Miami rail line was once lauded as a rail line to nowhere as well. Now both lines are considered to be pretty successful in regards to attracting ridership and new development along the rail lines. Also the system in Dallas is expanding with popular support from local government to other key destinations and will soon reach the DFW Airport. Over time new development will take place therefore increasing the ridership.

[3tmk]

Originally Posted by Dale

Remember that you're speaking to a proponent of balkanization. the more confusion and division the better.

haha well that's something you don't hear every day.

TampaMike brings up interesting points, but you do have to commend him for not sticking to his tea-party loonies.
There just might still be hope for a zombie revival of the HSR project. He's just got to write a nice scented letter to Lahood.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by 3tmk

haha well that's something you don't hear every day.

TampaMike brings up interesting points, but you do have to commend him for not sticking to his tea-party loonies.
There just might still be hope for a zombie revival of the HSR project. He's just got to write a nice scented letter to Lahood.

Then get Anthony Weiner together for a threesome!

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by Dale

Wait, you're angry that he didn't advocate for taxpayers this time around ? This is what I mean. Blind partisanship is a sickness.

No I'm against it because it was sloppy planning and there is no public-private partnership. No suggestion of it by Scott or Mica, not even a glance of the idea, nothing. It could had been done if it went out to bid, and yet nothing. The HSR situation was set up great for the state because it pretty much cost us nothing. If Orlando metro doesn't want SunRail to fail, they're going to have to do a lot to encourage TOD.

Originally Posted by Nexis

Its CSX's way of having the Tax Payers pay for upgrades , this will become the next Fail commuter line. Infill and TOD is foreign to the Southern Auto states and that is unlikely to change.

See that some have already brought the city up, but I'll bring up Charlotte again.

Originally Posted by 3tmk

haha well that's something you don't hear every day.

TampaMike brings up interesting points, but you do have to commend him for not sticking to his tea-party loonies.
There just might still be hope for a zombie revival of the HSR project. He's just got to write a nice scented letter to Lahood.

If he can see that he might lose a good portion of the Tea Party by this decision, even after doing so much for them, he MIGHT bring back HSR. Will I vote for him if he does, HELL NO! But if you have pissed off both sides by now, what else do you have going for you?

[Dale]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

No I'm against it because it was sloppy planning and there is no public-private partnership. No suggestion of it by Scott or Mica, not even a glance of the idea, nothing. It could had been done if it went out to bid, and yet nothing. The HSR situation was set up great for the state because it pretty much cost us nothing. If Orlando metro doesn't want SunRail to fail, they're going to have to do a lot to encourage TOD.


See that some have already brought the city up, but I'll bring up Charlotte again.


If he can see that he might lose a good portion of the Tea Party by this decision, even after doing so much for them, he MIGHT bring back HSR. Will I vote for him if he does, HELL NO! But if you have pissed off both sides by now, what else do you have going for you?

SunRail actually makes a lot more sense than HSR ever did. TOD's up and down the line. HSR was the true 'train to nowhere.'

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Originally Posted by Dale

I didn't vote for Scott (or anyone else), but I think it's interesting that he's being condemned for canceling HSR ... but no one's going to give him any credit for approving SunRail.

I knew this would spew eventually.

Scott didn't approve, or approve of, SunRail.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Originally Posted by Nexis

I'm for Rail and Transit , i'm just tired of these Expansions to nowhere....there making Rail in General look bad....and the idea if you build it they will come isn't really working outside Charlotte and Miami. Houston got it right , but Dallas doesn't and a few other cities.

Is SunRail an expansion to nowhere? Do tell.

[Bobdreamz]

The next time Florida sees the Feds giving Florida money for HSR will be a cold day in hell. Scott blew it just to give Obama a blackeye for stimulus spending and his political opposition.

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by Dale

SunRail actually makes a lot more sense than HSR ever did. TOD's up and down the line. HSR was the true 'train to nowhere.'

Considering that the Tampa-Orlando route was Phase I since it was pretty much ready for construction and Phase II would had followed right after connecting to Miami, I'll disagree. And both Tampa and the OCCC location had plans for TOD and Lakeland likely did too.

[Lordpenguinton]

To those that seem to be fans of Orlando's mass transit system, especially people in Boston, have you waited for the Lynx bus on Kirkman in the middle of August when it's 95 degrees out and 150% humidity? I'm guessing not, but I hear the free Lymmo is fantastic. You want to know what I don't like about mass transit in Orlando? No one lives close to anyone. Talk about a text book example of a city not ready for any form of "mass" transit. An MCO to Disney is the only path that would be viable in Orlando. Orlando is not dense, DENSE, a word that kind of goes with mass transit. Nowadays, apparently the dense has to come after the "mass in mass transit", in the old days, people were bothered by having to walk into packed neighborhoods and one day someone came along and said, I got an idea, let's build something to get people away from the horses and off the streets, or atleast let people get around them, and thus modern mass transit was born. It started in London, the original version of New York City, and moved to America by the 1900's. Unfortunately Orlando was a backwater until Disney came to town. For all the Orlando mass transit apologists out there, if any exist, Disney World, by far has the best "mass" transit in Orlando and possibly Florida for that matter. People are all excited about SunRail, why? Where do you want the commuters to go to? I don't even believe downtown has the most jobs in the metro area. Forget TOD, that's many years away. If anyone down there had a clue of TOD, then the Target on South Orange and Michigan would be a lot more dense than it is. I like the massive car garage, maybe SunRail will incorporate it into a monthly pass parking sysytem. I'm not against Orlando having commuter rail but it needs to be viable, atleast from a commuter stand point, from the get go, not a hand out to CSX, which cares F@#k about the average Floridian.

[Lordpenguinton]

After my previous rant I looked up and saw that someone said that your, Florida's, HSR was a train to nowhere. So Orlando to Tampa, nowhere, BFE, I just don't get it, but Sanford to DOWNTOWN ORLANDO, awesome. How ridiculous is that. A poplulation center of 2 million connecting another population center of 2 million people. Yeah you're right, doesn't make any sense at all. Hell if the initial line ran up to Jacksonville you could have a station in Sanford.

[Nexis]

Originally Posted by Lordpenguinton

To those that seem to be fans of Orlando's mass transit system, especially people in Boston, have you waited for the Lynx bus on Kirkman in the middle of August when it's 95 degrees out and 150% humidity? I'm guessing not, but I hear the free Lymmo is fantastic. You want to know what I don't like about mass transit in Orlando? No one lives close to anyone. Talk about a text book example of a city not ready for any form of "mass" transit. An MCO to Disney is the only path that would be viable in Orlando. Orlando is not dense, DENSE, a word that kind of goes with mass transit. Nowadays, apparently the dense has to come after the "mass in mass transit", in the old days, people were bothered by having to walk into packed neighborhoods and one day someone came along and said, I got an idea, let's build something to get people away from the horses and off the streets, or atleast let people get around them, and thus modern mass transit was born. It started in London, the original version of New York City, and moved to America by the 1900's. Unfortunately Orlando was a backwater until Disney came to town. For all the Orlando mass transit apologists out there, if any exist, Disney World, by far has the best "mass" transit in Orlando and possibly Florida for that matter. People are all excited about SunRail, why? Where do you want the commuters to go to? I don't even believe downtown has the most jobs in the metro area. Forget TOD, that's many years away. If anyone down there had a clue of TOD, then the Target on South Orange and Michigan would be a lot more dense than it is. I like the massive car garage, maybe SunRail will incorporate it into a monthly pass parking sysytem. I'm not against Orlando having commuter rail but it needs to be viable, atleast from a commuter stand point, from the get go, not a hand out to CSX, which cares F@#k about the average Floridian.

My points exactly and this isn't California , or Northwest , or Midwest / Northeast.... This is Florida , and this project is nothing more then a CSX Scam.... I guess Transit Support down there are so desperate they'll accept anything.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Originally Posted by Lordpenguinton

To those that seem to be fans of Orlando's mass transit system, especially people in Boston, have you waited for the Lynx bus on Kirkman in the middle of August when it's 95 degrees out and 150% humidity? I'm guessing not, but I hear the free Lymmo is fantastic. You want to know what I don't like about mass transit in Orlando? No one lives close to anyone. Talk about a text book example of a city not ready for any form of "mass" transit. An MCO to Disney is the only path that would be viable in Orlando. Orlando is not dense, DENSE, a word that kind of goes with mass transit. Nowadays, apparently the dense has to come after the "mass in mass transit", in the old days, people were bothered by having to walk into packed neighborhoods and one day someone came along and said, I got an idea, let's build something to get people away from the horses and off the streets, or atleast let people get around them, and thus modern mass transit was born. It started in London, the original version of New York City, and moved to America by the 1900's. Unfortunately Orlando was a backwater until Disney came to town. For all the Orlando mass transit apologists out there, if any exist, Disney World, by far has the best "mass" transit in Orlando and possibly Florida for that matter. People are all excited about SunRail, why? Where do you want the commuters to go to? I don't even believe downtown has the most jobs in the metro area. Forget TOD, that's many years away. If anyone down there had a clue of TOD, then the Target on South Orange and Michigan would be a lot more dense than it is. I like the massive car garage, maybe SunRail will incorporate it into a monthly pass parking sysytem. I'm not against Orlando having commuter rail but it needs to be viable, atleast from a commuter stand point, from the get go, not a hand out to CSX, which cares F@#k about the average Floridian.

Let me get this right: Your point is that Orlando doesn't deserve mass transit because it is humid, has decentralized sprawl, and it isn't London?

And yes, downtown Orlando is the largest employment center in the region.

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by Lordpenguinton

To those that seem to be fans of Orlando's mass transit system, especially people in Boston, have you waited for the Lynx bus on Kirkman in the middle of August when it's 95 degrees out and 150% humidity? I'm guessing not, but I hear the free Lymmo is fantastic. You want to know what I don't like about mass transit in Orlando? No one lives close to anyone. Talk about a text book example of a city not ready for any form of "mass" transit. An MCO to Disney is the only path that would be viable in Orlando. Orlando is not dense, DENSE, a word that kind of goes with mass transit. Nowadays, apparently the dense has to come after the "mass in mass transit", in the old days, people were bothered by having to walk into packed neighborhoods and one day someone came along and said, I got an idea, let's build something to get people away from the horses and off the streets, or atleast let people get around them, and thus modern mass transit was born. It started in London, the original version of New York City, and moved to America by the 1900's. Unfortunately Orlando was a backwater until Disney came to town. For all the Orlando mass transit apologists out there, if any exist, Disney World, by far has the best "mass" transit in Orlando and possibly Florida for that matter. People are all excited about SunRail, why? Where do you want the commuters to go to? I don't even believe downtown has the most jobs in the metro area. Forget TOD, that's many years away. If anyone down there had a clue of TOD, then the Target on South Orange and Michigan would be a lot more dense than it is. I like the massive car garage, maybe SunRail will incorporate it into a monthly pass parking sysytem. I'm not against Orlando having commuter rail but it needs to be viable, atleast from a commuter stand point, from the get go, not a hand out to CSX, which cares F@#k about the average Floridian.

So are you saying that neither Charlotte, Dallas, Miami, Houston, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Diego, or Norfolk are as deserving having rail transit as well? Because last time I checked those cities are just as sprawled out and autocentric as Orlando is currently. And yet San Diego, Atlanta, and Charlotte have exceeded all exceptions in attracting ridership and have attracted TOD development as well.

Honestly with that kind of mindset why bother building anything at all?

[Nexis]

Originally Posted by diablo234

So are you saying that neither Charlotte, Dallas, Miami, Houston, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Diego, or Norfolk are as deserving having rail transit as well? Because last time I checked those cities are just as sprawled out and autocentric as Orlando is currently. And yet San Diego, Atlanta, and Charlotte have exceeded all exceptions in attracting ridership and have attracted TOD development as well.

Honestly with that kind of mindset why bother building anything at all?

But San Diego , LA , Atlanta , Charlotte , and Houston have Dense cores so they can support Rail and Rail transit. Orlando's core is sprawl and too loose. TOD doesn't happen overnight , it takes years.... Were also talking about Regional Rail which needs a connecting service to really attract a strong ridership base like SD , LA , and Miami have... This is another reason why this line will fail , much like Cap-Metro Rail or the Denton A train.

[FlaNatv]

I would rather ride rails from Tampa to Winter Park for a day wandering Park Ave. and return that evening. Instead, I guess in the near future I can park at Poinciana and accomplish this. Maybe another time I can go to downtown Otown for a magic game or a concert.

I think there are enough destinations for work and leisure along this route now and that will likely expand in the future. Other major business centers are not that far off the tracks like Maitland Center, Florida Hospital, ORMC and the Florida Mall area. Also, historic downtowns like Maitland, Altamonte Springs, etc will become focal points again. Of course, a route between OIA and Disney would be the most profitable. Still, I think this is going to work.

All we can do is wait and see and hope for the best.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by SkyDiveJunkee

I knew this would spew eventually.

Scott didn't approve, or approve of, SunRail.

^ Angry person! Partisan bile!

[Dale]

As far as I know, of SunRail's 17 stops, all are located in walkable downtowns or have TOD's up-and-running, u/c or well along in planning.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Originally Posted by Dale

^ Angry person! Partisan bile!

Angry, no. Partisan, yes!

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by Nexis

But San Diego , LA , Atlanta , Charlotte , and Houston have Dense cores so they can support Rail and Rail transit. Orlando's core is sprawl and too loose. TOD doesn't happen overnight , it takes years.... Were also talking about Regional Rail which needs a connecting service to really attract a strong ridership base like SD , LA , and Miami have... This is another reason why this line will fail , much like Cap-Metro Rail or the Denton A train.

Los Angeles, Miami, and San Diego did not always have a strong ridership base. Actually when it was first built the Miami Metrorail was known as a failure.

I am basically stating that you have to start somewhere in order to create dense walkable neighborhoods. The SunRail system already does go through Downtown and Winter Park which are pretty dense/walkable so that is a good start. In the near future I would expect more TOD's to form along the line. If this line has frequencies similar to Caltrain or Metra than I don't see this being a problem.

Granted I do think the light rail line along I-Drive should be built as well to offer connecting service but anyways I still say this is a good start regardless.

Also regarding the Denton A-Train it already connects to the DART Green Line.