Sunrail Commuter Rail System

[Lakelander]

Orlando and Central Florida have some planning to do. Rick Scott threw a huge monkey wrench into their mass transit connectivity plans by killing HSR. If it were still alive, they'd have that connection to Disney and I-Drive already under construction.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Hopefully the more sensical light rail proposal will gain enertia now that SunRail is a go.

[jzquince69]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

If they do it right. I think one thing that seperates SunRail from Tri-Rail is that SunRail will go into Downtown Orlando and close to the major employers, Tri-Rail doesn't. Tri-Rail connected many neighborhoods to an airport, just an airport. Now, if you had those people living near the stations traveling every day, then that would kinda makes sense. But wasn't the case.

Is OIA suppose to build a connector betwen the airport and one of the stations still?

initial plan was to route busses to Sand Lake Rd station.

But, with the HSR proposal, GOAA was going to build an intermodal center much like the MIC in Miami. HSR got killed (ORL to TAM). But, I have been told that GOAA will still build the intermodal center (adjacent to the new South Terminal Complex (when built)). However, the route studies for the Miami to Orlando route have already been done. I was told that Branson's people were in serious talks with Tallahassee about building the Orlando to Miami HSR route.

An LRT route has been studied between OIA and the OCCC.

The newer proposal was to use the Taft spur of the CSX line to take the train directly into the airport property. That should be very cheap. I think the proposed intermodal center goes part and parcel with the proposed South Terminal Complex.

[South Florida]

Originally Posted by jzquince69

initial plan was to route busses to Sand Lake Rd station.

But, with the HSR proposal, GOAA was going to build an intermodal center much like the MIC in Miami. HSR got killed (ORL to TAM). But, I have been told that GOAA will still build the intermodal center (adjacent to the new South Terminal Complex (when built)). However, the route studies for the Miami to Orlando route have already been done. I was told that Branson's people were in serious talks with Tallahassee about building the Orlando to Miami HSR route.

The newer proposal was to use the Taft spur of the CSX line to take the train directly into the airport property. That should be very cheap. I think the proposed intermodal center goes part and parcel with the proposed South Terminal Complex.

Are they really having talks about a route from Orlando to Miami? Sounds great! Maybe in 3 years when the worst governor in floridas history leaves then we can try to build it

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Originally Posted by jzquince69

I was told that Branson's people were in serious talks with Tallahassee about building the Orlando to Miami HSR route.

Tell us more?

[Jahi98]

Originally Posted by jzquince69

I was told that Branson's people were in serious talks with Tallahassee about building the Orlando to Miami HSR route.

Considering both will have some established rail transit, if/when HSR is revisited, the ORL-MIA route might be the better segment to build first.

[South Florida]

I Agree with you Jahi. That would link Orlando a major tourism hub with Miami a world class city and also a Large tourism hub... It would also provide another way to travel Inbetween the two other than The Florida turnpike.

[Lakelander]

Call me skeptical, but I don't think we'll see HSR in Florida for at least the next decade, if not longer.

[South Florida]

but but... Why not?

[TampaMike]

It's hard to agree. I want to say ORL-TPA would make better sense because it's already set up to start construction while the ORL-MIA would have to wait for studies and setting up the ROW to handle HSR, but Orlando and Miami would both have mass transit by the time HSR is finished. And both are major tourism desinations.

But, you still have no connection to Disney or even Universal and Sea World with what is planned. SunRail isn't going to Disney and there is no serious plans right now for light rail to connect to any of these parks. Although I do expect that Disney and Universal will likely contribute shuttles between a HSR station and to the parks, maybe Sea World too.

And right now, there is no plans for HSR in Florida. So we can wait for someone to change their mind or someone to step up to build the ORL-TPA line or we allow this to go through. Which would mean Tampa won't have to wait probably 5-8 more years, but I guess "better late than never"?

Can't we have the Feds recontribute the $2.4 billion for the ORL-TPA line and have Branson and a couple other companies finish out the plan we had in February?

[HARTride 2012]

Originally Posted by Jahi98

Considering both will have some established rail transit, if/when HSR is revisited, the ORL-MIA route might be the better segment to build first.

Originally Posted by Lakelander

Call me skeptical, but I don't think we'll see HSR in Florida for at least the next decade, if not longer.

Maybe not for the next 10 to 15 years (20 to 40 if we end up having a mostly tea party govt run by Bachmann or some other pro-tea-party president) , but if and when HSR is revived, Orlando/Miami/Jax will get a line built. Tampa......FORGET IT!

[Lakelander]

If John Mica has his way, tack on a couple of extra decades of waiting for HSR or anything else that hasn't already been approved.

Rep. John Mica proposes cuts in U.S. transportation fund

Submitted by Larry Hannan on July 7, 2011 - 11:45am

On the Road

The Northeast Florida congressman who chairs a key U.S. House committee is pushing for large cuts in transit spending over the next six years that he says will save money and opponents say will cost jobs.

Rep. John Mica, R-Fla., proposed a transportation bill Thursday that spends $230 billion in the next six years. That is a drop of about 20 percent from the last transportation bill signed by President George W. Bush in 2005 and less than half of the $566 billion requested by President Barack Obama to shore up the nation’s crumbling infrastructure.

“We’re willing to work with Democrats to get something done,” Mica said. “But the proposals coming from the White House are not economically realistic.”

Mica acknowledged that his bill would cause cuts to states for road and bridge programs. But he also said the legislation would “create long-term jobs” by encouraging public-private partnerships that would allow private entities to do some projects, and cut red tape so projects are done cheaper and more efficiently.

“This proposal maximizes the value of our available infrastructure funding through better leveraging, streamlining the project approval process, attracting private-sector investment, and cutting the federal bureaucracy,” he said.

It drew immediate opposition from Democrats and an estimate from Florida Transportation Builders Association President Bob Burleson that Florida would lose 7 to 8 percent of the money it now receives.

Local projects awaiting federal money and in danger of being delayed or scrapped could include a regional transit center at the Prime Osborn Convention Center, replacing an elevated portion of Interstate 95 south of the Fuller Warren Bridge, rebuilding and relocating the interchange from Interstate 10 at Marietta, adding lanes on Florida 9A from I-95 to the Dames Point bridge and extending Florida 9B from U.S. 1 to I-95.

U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla., another member of Mica’s Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, said the bill would cost Florida 20,000 jobs, and half a million nationwide.

“Certainly, at a time when our nation’s unemployment rate remains above 9 percent,” Brown said, “an adequately funded six-year surface transportation reauthorization bill is crucial.”

Organization as disparate as the AFL-CIO and the United States Chamber of Commerce agreed. Both released statements Thursday calling for more transportation funding.

But Mica said he had a responsibility to propose a bill that was cost feasible.

“We can only authorize programs within the limits of the transportation trust fund,” Mica said.

The trust fund, created in 1956, has needed regular infusions of cash from Congress’ general fund because its principal funding source, the federal gasoline tax, has not been adjusted for inflation since 1993. The federal fuel tax is 18.4 cents a gallon for unleaded gasoline and 24.4 cents a gallon for diesel fuel.

Democrats had discussed raising the gas tax when they were in the majority, but Mica slammed the door on that possibility when he became chairman earlier this year.

Senate Democrats are proposing a two-year, $109 billion transportation bill. Mica criticized that plan Thursday, saying a shorter plan with more yearly spending wouldn’t keep the trust fund solvent.

Burleson, while not happy at the drop in funding, said he preferred Mica’s proposal.“We need stability right now,” he said. “Even though I wish the funding was higher, we’d know what to expect for the next six years.”

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog...portation-fund

[Lakelander]

Originally Posted by South Florida

but but... Why not?

Because these projects don't happen overnight. It took us over 20 years to get to where we were at when Scott killed it, even with the feds willing to pay for nearly all of it (that opportunity won't be back for a while, if ever).

Now we're back at square one, with no money, no plan and a federal political environment that's reducing the amount of money it spends on projects like this. I also believe the private sector financed rail projects are dreams at best because without heavy public subsidies, investing in roads and passenger rail don't make financial sense. Because of this, outside of finding local dollars to move these projects forward, I'm pretty skeptical of some of the opportunities/hopes being discussed online.

[HARTride 2012]

I don't think HSR will ever get built in the US. Not before 2050. Even areas like the NE and Cali will have their projects axed by the next administration before construction can even begin. And if we end up having a mostly tea party govt come 2012. The entire country can kiss meaningful transit, including HSR, goodbye for another 50 to 60 years.

[jzquince69]

all I know is that the route studies have been done-- in '09-'10 between the two cities.

and that he has been in talks- serious talks up in Tally. the route would go through a large piece of land owned by an entity and they've been involved in it as well, so its an inter-connected type of thing, not just something someone heard down the hallway, ya know...

my gut says I'll believe it when I see it. our governor politically postured himself and flushed that money down the drain to hurt the opposing party at our expense, so, with those funds gone, your guess is as good as mine if a private company will see building this as a feasible endeavor... I think he's already done it in europe though...

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by jzquince69

all I know is that the route studies have been done-- in '09-'10 between the two cities.

and that he has been in talks- serious talks up in Tally. the route would go through a large piece of land owned by an entity and they've been involved in it as well, so its an inter-connected type of thing, not just something someone heard down the hallway, ya know...

my gut says I'll believe it when I see it. our governor politically postured himself and flushed that money down the drain to hurt the opposing party at our expense, so, with those funds gone, your guess is as good as mine if a private company will see building this as a feasible endeavor... I think he's already done it in europe though...

Any idea if it would be possible allowing them to go through with this in the condition that they also manage the ORL-TPA HSR line? Fed offers them all the funding that was needed for the line since they don't need to fund the ORL-MIA line anymore and construction begins simultaneously on both lines. Imagine having the whole Tampa to Miami line finished at the same time.

[HARTride 2012]

Snowballs chance of that happening. I say TPA-ORL will never be built at this point. If it does, it will not be built in our generation. Everything that is going on right now will guarantee an indefinite hold on the US HSR system.

[TampaMike]

If the Conservatives goal was scare one person into crapping their pants every time "Conservatives" was mentioned, you would be their winner.

The GOP have shot their feet so many times in less than a year. Both at a state level and a national level. The name Rick Scott leaves a bad taste in the GOP, Republicans favor "Other" when it comes to candidates for 2012, and the GOP has shown their true colors numerous times during this budget crisis. The Tea Party, which was once considered the saving grace for the GOP, has made sure to distant Independents and Moderate Republicans from the GOP more than ever. I expect a pretty neutral change in 2012, with maybe a more Democratic leaning.

[jzquince69]

its a double edged sword as it is... the Big O wanted HSR for the I-4 Corridor for votes in 2012. The GOP killed it to undermine his goal. CFLA was a battleground for reasons of what CFLA could give back to either party; I don't think it was ever for what was good for CLFA. But hey, if we all could benefit from the Fed wanted to blow 2.4B then oh well...

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by jzquince69

its a double edged sword as it is... the Big O wanted HSR for the I-4 Corridor for votes in 2012. The GOP killed it to undermine his goal. CFLA was a battleground for reasons of what CFLA could give back to either party; I don't think it was ever for what was good for CLFA. But hey, if we all could benefit from the Fed wanted to blow 2.4B then oh well...

I would have to disagree. The I-4 Corridor HSR has been planned since the Late 90's. When voters approved of it in 2000, it was Orlando to Tampa. Heck, even St. Petersburg was planned to be connected before Miami before then. Would I had supported that plan then, no. Miami to Orlando makes 1000x more sense, but having almost everything ready for HSR to be constructed at any moment, the I-4 Corridor HSR kind of makes more sense now (financial sense at least). I know a lot of people will say Obama went for HSR in C. Florida to gather the votes, but you look at history of planning for it and you just can't help to think it was one of the easiest ways of getting HSR going in the country. Which it was, because all the studies and ground work had been completed by February and HSR would had been completed by 2014/2015.

If anything, I wish if the rumor is true, Branson came before the state before Scott cancelled the I-4 Corridor HSR. Because then, we would still had the money and now have a private company to fund the rest, cover operations, and already have someone committed on Phase II without asking the Feds for 1 cent.