Sunrail Commuter Rail System

[jzquince69]

there's a "thing" today around 1pm in front of the church st. depot; a ceremony of sorts.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

^It's hard to believe this is actually happening, but it is:

Notice 55W in the background -- http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,4724359.story

[jzquince69]

Good article. If I know Obama, FLA gets the nod over Chitown since Chitown/ILL is a sure thing in 2012.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Central Florida lawmakers are proposing gondolas, yes gondolas, as a possible mode of mass transit:

http://www.wftv.com/news/22298244/detail.html

[HARTride 2012]

What on earth are these supposed to look like?

[Dale]

Originally Posted by HARTride 2012

What on earth are these supposed to look like?

I don't know but it'll never happen because it makes too much sense. We shouldn't do anything that doesn't cost at least a $ billion.

[HARTride 2012]

I just don't like the idea in general. When I think of gondolas, I think of the skyride at Busch Gardens...

[Dale]

Originally Posted by HARTride 2012

I just don't like the idea in general. When I think of gondolas, I think of the skyride at Busch Gardens...

Maybe it's just a figure-of-speech. Maybe they aren't tacky-looking.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

Doesn't NYC have a Gondola to get to Roosevelt Island?

[SkyDiveJunkee]

http://gondolaproject.com/tag/urban-gondola/

I'm starting to like this idea.

[jzquince69]

man, the Germans always have the coolest stuff.

you would think, in Orlando, b/c of the innovative spirit of Disney, they would look into something that was not mundane, and that actually worked well.

even with that stuff in that article, it still requires an easement and/or track of some kind... which costs money.

[Hia-leah JDM]

I know exactly the system they are reffering to when they went to Colombia. It was built as an expansion of to a trian line like it would in Orlando but in Colombia it was used to connect the impoverished (ghettos) areas in the mountains to the center of the city.


image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

[Dale]

Since Sunrail won't be practical the vast majority of Orlandoans, it only makes sense to consider a low-cost means of providing mass-transit for the rest of them on multiple East-West routes.

[alex7677]

At first it seems ridiculous, but thinking it over, this could actually work so much better

[TampaMike]

Is there a certain wind speed that will shut down such a system though? I know for Busch Gardens they shut it down at a certain wind speed. Also, is there a risk of power failure during a thunderstorm or any other event that could shut down the power? How about the emergency situations? For a commuter train, all you would need to do is step off the train. Here, you'll need rescue ladders to rescue trapped riders.

^Things that would need to be addressed if it hasn't already.

[SkyDiveJunkee]

The Austrian "funicular" design for Innsbruck is truly cool and innovative -- while it would never happen in Florida, it's a fascinating thought.

[smiley]

January 22, 2010
CSX deal prompts Amtrak threat to state

UPDATED 12:45 p.m.: A letter sent Thursday to DOT Secretary Stephanie Kopelousos puts Florida on notice that Amtrak is terminating the 2008 memorandum of understanding with the state. Without the agreement, Amtrak CEO Joseph Boardman writes that Florida possibly couldn't tap federal commuter rail money.

The problem is the liability clauses in the Sun Rail deal approved by the Legislature in the December special session and later signed by Gov. Charlie Crist. Amtrak raised these issues in a Nov. 30 letter to Kopelousos that went unheeded.

The termination would occur in 30 days if the state can't scurry to cut a deal with Amtrak, which is asking lawmakers to put in legislation an "enforceable, no-fault, indemnity agreement" similar to the one the state made with CSX.

The DOT's agreement with Amtrak on liability issues "preclude FDOT from assuming the indemnity obligations for which CSX is responsible," the letter states.

It's unclear whether this is just a bureaucratic mess or a roadblock that could interrupt commuter traffic in Florida.

But Boardman makes the implications for commuter rail clear:

"Florida has enormous untapped potential for passenger rail service -- high speed, intercity, and commuter -- that has not been realized to date. The Federal government’s unprecedented funding support for passenger rail expansion provides a window of opportunity for translating that potential into reality. For that to happen, Florida must address the statutory and other impediments that have inhibited the development of passenger rail service in Florida, and have precluded Amtrak and FDOT from reaching agreements."
http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2010/...-to-state.html

[brickell]

Gondolas:
I like the idea for certain situations, but in these cases why not just use busses? Gondolas seem more limited in the amount of stops and street interaction.

Where I'd love to see them is on the coasts - connecting Miami Beach to Downtown for instance or spanning the St. Johns in Jacksonville (if the people mover didn't do it already).

[Dale]

Originally Posted by smiley

January 22, 2010
CSX deal prompts Amtrak threat to state

UPDATED 12:45 p.m.: A letter sent Thursday to DOT Secretary Stephanie Kopelousos puts Florida on notice that Amtrak is terminating the 2008 memorandum of understanding with the state. Without the agreement, Amtrak CEO Joseph Boardman writes that Florida possibly couldn't tap federal commuter rail money.

The problem is the liability clauses in the Sun Rail deal approved by the Legislature in the December special session and later signed by Gov. Charlie Crist. Amtrak raised these issues in a Nov. 30 letter to Kopelousos that went unheeded.

The termination would occur in 30 days if the state can't scurry to cut a deal with Amtrak, which is asking lawmakers to put in legislation an "enforceable, no-fault, indemnity agreement" similar to the one the state made with CSX.

The DOT's agreement with Amtrak on liability issues "preclude FDOT from assuming the indemnity obligations for which CSX is responsible," the letter states.

It's unclear whether this is just a bureaucratic mess or a roadblock that could interrupt commuter traffic in Florida.

But Boardman makes the implications for commuter rail clear:

"Florida has enormous untapped potential for passenger rail service -- high speed, intercity, and commuter -- that has not been realized to date. The Federal government’s unprecedented funding support for passenger rail expansion provides a window of opportunity for translating that potential into reality. For that to happen, Florida must address the statutory and other impediments that have inhibited the development of passenger rail service in Florida, and have precluded Amtrak and FDOT from reaching agreements."
http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2010/...-to-state.html

F*** Amtrak. Boycott it.

[Lakelander]

Originally Posted by brickell

Gondolas:
I like the idea for certain situations, but in these cases why not just use busses? Gondolas seem more limited in the amount of stops and street interaction.

Where I'd love to see them is on the coasts - connecting Miami Beach to Downtown for instance or spanning the St. Johns in Jacksonville (if the people mover didn't do it already).

This was actually proposed in Jax by a Southbank condo tower developer in 2007. His two projects (San Marco Place & Kings Avenue Station) have been completed but we're still waiting on that gondola across the river.

Ride in the sky

Public transportation in Downtown Jacksonville could be up in the air -- literally.

Local developer Mike Balanky hopes to establish a committee of public officials and local business owners next month to consider the feasibility of and possible funding mechanisms for an aerial cable car system that could link the Southbank to the Northbank from the Kings Avenue parking garage to the Jacksonville Municipal Stadium.

"There's a possibility that we wouldn't proceed at all," said Balanky, president of Chase Properties Inc., who first proposed the idea a year ago. "But we think there's a really good chance that we will."

Several companies provide aerial cable car services, but Balanky has had preliminary discussions with Doppelmayr CTEC Inc., the American branch of an Austrian company that specializes in ropeway transportation systems.

Randy Woolwine, the vice president of sales at Doppelmayr's U.S. headquarters in Salt Lake City, said gondola systems can serve as a good supplement or alternative to an existing or stressed urban transportation system, but they are not ideal for every city.

"A gondola system is not the answer to all transportation problems, but it is the answer to some."

A gondola system can carry up to 2,400 passengers per hour, equivalent to 60, 40-passenger buses, Woolwine said. In urban settings, gondolas are best for transporting very large groups a short distance, such as from a parking garage on the outskirts of a downtown to the heart of the city or from a parking garage to a stadium.

However, they may not be useful in an area of a city that does not have full buses and a demand for more, Woolwine said.

Electric-powered gondolas pollute less than gasoline-powered vehicles, eliminate the need for roadway expansions and are a safer mode of travel than the alternative. Still, Woolwine said, they do have limitations. Gondolas should not be used in heavy winds and require regular maintenance that involve shutting down the system for several days during the first five years and more often for longer periods as the system ages.

A mile-long system with no stops in between would cost $8 million to $10 million, Woolwine said. Each additional stop along the way would add $2 million to the cost. That figure does not include the construction of terminals or infrastructure changes such as parking structures and the access needed to accommodate the system.

Doppelmayr CTEC has installed 479 chair lifts, gondolas, aerial trams and inclined elevators in the U.S. A few of those are in urban settings, but most were installed for recreational uses. The company's largest users are in Austria, Japan and Switzerland.

Not knowing the dynamics of Jacksonville, Woolwine said he could not comment on whether a gondola system would be suitable for Jacksonville, but he did suggest that if city leaders and/or developers do consider one, they should visit Europe where the systems are more prevalent.

"It's something every city ought to be interested in pursuing," Woolwine said.

The aerial cable car idea is part of Balanky's latest project, Kings Avenue Station, a 250,000-square-foot, mixed-use development that includes two hotels and retail space. The development, excluding hotel construction costs, is expected to cost $50 million.

The project is on Kings Avenue in front of the Kings Avenue parking garage and the southern terminus of the Skyway system -- a 2.5-mile-long monorail spanning the St. Johns River that took about 13 years and $180 million to build. The last leg of the Skyway opened in 2000.

In addition to his discussions with Doppelmayr, Balanky has also presented the idea to the Jacksonville Transportation Authority, albeit in very broad and theoretical terms, JTA spokesman Mike Miller said.

Miller said that if asked, JTA would likely be interested in being a part of a committee to further research the idea.

"I find it intriguing, I'll tell you that," Miller said. "Michael is a very out-of-the-box kind of thinker, a very creative thinker, and if there was a developer who was going to get it done, it would probably be Michael."

Balanky said he could see a gondola system becoming another Downtown landmark, but he knows it will take hard work to get there. "It's going to be a long-term project," he said. "It's not going to be overnight."

Construction is expected to start on Kings Avenue Station in about 60 days.

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2007/03/19/story2.html?b=1174276800^1431855