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Old January 30th, 2014, 01:04 AM   #2221
hateman
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Again, your distinctions are utterly arbitrary and vague. I'll grant that no culture has a monopoly on simple geometric forms, which modern architecture provides. But to say that specific styles of ornamentation belong to one culture, whereas the idea of removing ornamentation doesn't is inconsistent--both have specific cultural and historic origins. The distinction exists purely in your eyes. No ornamentation is equally a style as say Baroque ornamentation, even if the resulting form is as universal as a cube.

Claiming what architecture may or may not "belong" to China, is dangerously mired with colonial attitudes of what constitutes and defines "the Orient." Who can claim the authority to say what is acceptable in China, or what Chinese can claim is theirs? Certainly not you or I. And how does one determine what a mere "copy" is? Your automobile analogy is a good one. An automobile has a specific brand, and specific features. With a building you'll have to point to specific qualities.

Here's a building in Heart of Lake:


Here's a colonial building in Tianjin:


Here's the Rockbund Museum in Shanghai:


Here's the old Bank of China in Hong Kong:


And here's the render of the high rises:


The project clearly references pre-existing architecture in the region, architecture either specifically designed to mix Chinese and European architecture, or (in the case of the HK building) buildings designed by Chinese architects. When you compare the colonial building in Tianjin to the Heart of Lake lowrise, you can clearly see the influence of both colonial and indigenous Chinese architecture. You may argue that that architecture the buildings are referencing does not "belong to China," but it clearly looks like the Chinese are taking ownership of it, and more power to them.

You'll likely be hard-pressed to find European examples of buildings that look like the ones above, perhaps excluding the colonial building in Tianjin, but even that has been changed and influenced by its construction in China. To assert that these buildings are mere copies is simply untrue, or grossly simplistic.
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Old January 30th, 2014, 03:01 AM   #2222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hateman View Post
Again, your distinctions are utterly arbitrary and vague. I'll grant that no culture has a monopoly on simple geometric forms, which modern architecture provides. But to say that specific styles of ornamentation belong to one culture, whereas the idea of removing ornamentation doesn't is inconsistent--both have specific cultural and historic origins. The distinction exists purely in your eyes. No ornamentation is equally a style as say Baroque ornamentation, even if the resulting form is as universal as a cube.

Claiming what architecture may or may not "belong" to China, is dangerously mired with colonial attitudes of what constitutes and defines "the Orient." Who can claim the authority to say what is acceptable in China, or what Chinese can claim is theirs? Certainly not you or I. And how does one determine what a mere "copy" is? Your automobile analogy is a good one. An automobile has a specific brand, and specific features. With a building you'll have to point to specific qualities.



The project clearly references pre-existing architecture in the region, architecture either specifically designed to mix Chinese and European architecture, or (in the case of the HK building) buildings designed by Chinese architects. When you compare the colonial building in Tianjin to the Heart of Lake lowrise, you can clearly see the influence of both colonial and indigenous Chinese architecture. You may argue that that architecture the buildings are referencing does not "belong to China," but it clearly looks like the Chinese are taking ownership of it, and more power to them.

You'll likely be hard-pressed to find European examples of buildings that look like the ones above, perhaps excluding the colonial building in Tianjin, but even that has been changed and influenced by its construction in China. To assert that these buildings are mere copies is simply untrue, or grossly simplistic.
my distinctions aren't very vague, rather too strict but u must agree that these buildings heavily rely on european origined styling ! and in my opinion it just doesnt fit the general chinese landscape! thats the main point of my argument
the lack of ornamentation has existed in all cultures, plain box buildings, but lets say neoclassic romantic frills are rooted mostly in the west
surely china has adopted certain ideas over time, but what i am witnessing is the over-usage of these "influences" under the name of chinese architecture and urban planning
its not a matter of claiming, as im sure none of these buildings are claimed to be "chinese" in style (talking about the more classic ones), but the fact that they are used in such a way as if they are naturally concurrent with everything else in china, its the careless attitude towards these structures that makes me not only concerned about more "chinese" oriented architecture but also the usage of more occidental ideas across the world
u might now say that it isnt up to me to say what they can do and surely it isnt, u might even think im trying to pursue the whole "orientalism" ideology which practically says "take whatever u can from them and dont let them take any of ours" but im not
im simply stating what i conceive as poor stylistic choices in some projects
such phenomenon is not unique to china

architecture too has somewhat of a specific brand, surely not as defined as in the likes of an automotive company, but it does have somewhat of a "brand" like structure
surely such structures have existed in china in the past, but i PERSONALLY feel that they were somewhat lumped , inorganically to mainstream chinese architecture through DIRECT western interference, not in a natural form that it did to the ottomans for example
and its only natural since they are halfway in europe !


im not stating what should or shouldnt be built, im just giving my take on the issue

im not "hard pressed" to find anything but the fact that there are so many western mock-up modernist pieces that dont match the environment,
what u say isnt wrong, nor what i say, it depends on how much u might value originality towards ur own foreign cultures, especially when we consider how well they fit

each form of architecture has been tailored to the climate, culture , people, language of the region (all of them influence each other in a way)
it just looks a bit unorganic, thats all

no need to take it seriously
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Old January 31st, 2014, 01:15 AM   #2223
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Barcelona - taken from streetview. The white shaded building is new and is built in the same design as the rest of the historic city block.







Old next to new.


How it used to be:


Location: https://maps.google.no/?ll=41.386968...69.68,,0,-8.58
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Old January 31st, 2014, 03:48 AM   #2224
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Very beautiful! Those buildings remind me of Istanbul.
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Old January 31st, 2014, 12:16 PM   #2225
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I am Turkish/American and I live in Los Angeles but it will be painful to see that building when I visit home this summer

About Kazakhstan, I honestly don't know much about that country but I've heard that they have very beautiful landscape over there and that they speak a similar language to Turkish. Ah and Borat of course
Well you should also know they have many new developments that can be qualified as nothing else but pure kitsch.
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Old January 31st, 2014, 12:36 PM   #2226
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Well you should also know they have many new developments that can be qualified as nothing else but pure kitsch.
I didn't even know Kazakhstan has a sub-forum. I will check it now
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Old January 31st, 2014, 12:44 PM   #2227
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You don't have to, really. You have those projects on this thread.
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Old January 31st, 2014, 02:21 PM   #2228
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Old January 31st, 2014, 02:28 PM   #2229
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Why does Eastern Europe and parts of Asia still build with these tacky looking, blue, reflective windows? No one builds with these in Western/Northern Europe and North America anymore since the 90s.
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Old January 31st, 2014, 02:42 PM   #2230
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Edit.

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Old January 31st, 2014, 03:12 PM   #2231
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Anyone knows the architecture company who designed and built that building in Barcelona? hope they are still building more, its perfect!
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Old January 31st, 2014, 03:20 PM   #2232
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Quote:
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Anyone knows the architecture company who designed and built that building in Barcelona? hope they are still building more, its perfect!
Wortmann architects:

http://www.wortmann-architects.com/e...do-inaugurado/
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Old January 31st, 2014, 03:30 PM   #2233
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Thanks!
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Old January 31st, 2014, 05:42 PM   #2234
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That Barcelona hotel reminds me of this project in NYC:



It certainly helps to build a proper looking building when you do a mirror image of a pre-existing building.
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Old February 1st, 2014, 12:32 PM   #2235
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The building of the OSCE mission in Pristina, Kosovo. The fire stairs (I presume that the stairs are for escape in case of fire) along with the glass elevator shaft are hideous. It's a good example how to ruin a decent building.





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Old February 1st, 2014, 08:01 PM   #2236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HURZ View Post
I'm going to point our whats wrong with this bulding here:
First of all the use of materials is wrong! Using plaster as cladding and painting it
just does not work, it should be be natural stone to give an authentic look. Using the plaster does actually give it the Disneyland-look.
Also what bothers strongly is the extensive use of rain gutters, the contrast between the paint and the gutters is too strong and makes the building look wierd. Apart from these facts the building actually looks quite nice, the details look authentic and the proportions aswell.
Oh spare us this nonsense, as if plaster were some "modern invention".
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 02:34 AM   #2237
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The example from Barcelona shows how the new buildings in traditional style should look like. Not just some Ionic order with reflective glass behind and there we have a "traditional looking" building.
Are you an architect? What is your opinion on:
  • new buildings in complete recreations of past styles?
  • new buildings in new interpretations of past styles?
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 02:38 AM   #2238
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Is there someone who could describe how to differentiate tastefull old architecture from complete kitsch? I think I can clearly see the difference, but some clearly can't. Maybe someone could clarify the difference?
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 04:02 AM   #2239
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Nice old-style architecture
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Old February 2nd, 2014, 04:29 AM   #2240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BE0GRAD View Post
Is there someone who could describe how to differentiate tastefull old architecture from complete kitsch? I think I can clearly see the difference, but some clearly can't. Maybe someone could clarify the difference?
I am an architect. I am not familiar with many of the Asian traditional styles that I see on this thread, so I am unable to intelligently comment on those projects. I am most familiar with classical architecture and most styles of western architecture.

Classical architecture is derived from the use of the 5 classical orders. Classical buildings need to be detailed properly. By that, I mean that if the classical orders are to be expressed or represented in any way, then their detailing and all the components that comprise that order need to be present and properly proportioned. Also, classical buildings need to be designed so that the entire composition, and the composition of each individual part is properly proportioned. Proper detailing also means that certain elements must be aligned such as the face of the entablature with the face of the pilaster/columns, and such as the plinth of the columns/pilasters with the face of the pedestal below, otherwise the columns and other supporting elements appear to be incapable of their structural capabilities. Similarly, arched openings need a large amount of structure near the building's corner to resist the lateral thrust. It's not an issue when two or more arches are adjacent to each other because the lateral thrust of one arch cancels out the thrust of the adjacent arch. Therefore, it looks structurally weak to place an arched opening near a corner.

More info on classical architecture can be found here: http://www.icaahandbook.com/#!chapters/c10d6


and here: http://www.icaahandbook.com/#!plates/cee9
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