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Old September 10th, 2017, 12:02 AM   #9101
robertwood
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Interesting read. Although the fact that so many architects, planners, and designers -- who probably did not have PTSD or horrific war experiences -- glommed onto this style, suggests other factors at work. I think the misguided association of ornamented architecture with hierarchical (undemocratic) societies is as compelling a reason for the obsession with bland building design. And then there is what I assume to be the cheapness of undifferentiated blank walls and acres of plate glass.
I always find it interesting that most people seem to want to live in traditional looking homes themselves but for some reason large buildings have to be modern boring glass boxes. It seems there's a real disconnect somewhere.
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Old September 10th, 2017, 12:15 AM   #9102
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It's a damn shame how much of the Chicago stuff is replacing gorgeous old Victorian buildings for McMansions.

However, it's good to see some of the replacements are of some sort of quality.
I don't know that you are correct on this one. When I visited Chicago about three years ago very mediocre late 19th century buildings or remuddled buildings were being replaced by these new homes. I can tell you that these homes are of the highest quality and from what I could see are much better than what they replaced. The areas where these homes are being build are some of the most beautiful areas you will find in America. Don't get me wrong I love the old stuff but what is happening in Chicago is special.
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Old September 10th, 2017, 07:37 AM   #9103
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I always find it interesting that most people seem to want to live in traditional looking homes themselves but for some reason large buildings have to be modern boring glass boxes. It seems there's a real disconnect somewhere.
Even architects and exponents of ultra sterile and deconstructivist modernism want traditional homes. Norman Foster counts an 18th Century chateau and a New England shingle style beach house as his homes. Richard Rogers lives in a Georgian terrace house that's completely gutted while maintaining its traditional facade. Steve Jobs chose Spanish Colonial and English cottage style homes to live in. Jony Ive lives in a brick gothic revival. Rafael Vinoly lives in pre-war Tribeca loft and a Hamptons colonial.

But if a less "aesthetically evolved" nonentity prefers traditional architecture they're looked down upon, particularly if they can't afford high quality or original homes, or if the architects they hire lack the requisite skill, which is a failure of education.

That's both hypocrisy and elitism. But going back to the failure of education, people are taught to devalue traditional forms of architecture even if it has an original or innate appeal. Instead of encouraging and improving the craft, they're taught to reject it outright as a "copy." This amounts to an indoctrinated cognitive dissonance that expresses itself like the manifest hypocrisy of the architects and designers above. That should count as institutional mental illness.

The problem with modern architecture is the problem of the 20th and 21st century: fanaticism. Modernism has demanded ideological purity and denigration of the past in the service of some idealized future, just like any other destructive mass movement of the last 100 years.
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Old September 10th, 2017, 01:47 PM   #9104
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Great response, but I still disagree that this constitutes a mental illness. Cognatitive biases and distortions are abundant in day-to-day life, and while these can form the basis of and reinforce certain mental illnesses, they themselves are not often the cause. Everything else you said was quite spot on, though.
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Old September 10th, 2017, 04:57 PM   #9105
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You're right. Calling it mental illness overstates it and minimizes actual mental illness. It would be a mistake to oppose modernist indoctrination by proposing an extremism of the reverse, much like the opposite of the religious fanatic is not the militant atheist, but the cynic who doesn't care either way. Better to be able to appreciate excellence in any form of design and architecture and accept a preference. If only the art and design academy did the same.
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Old September 10th, 2017, 09:50 PM   #9106
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Imperial Pacific - Macau, China (Built 2017)





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http://www.imperialpacific.com/en/me...nter/detail/47
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Old September 11th, 2017, 04:27 AM   #9107
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I really have to disagree. The idea that nearly 4 generations of architects all suffered from that same branch of mental illnesses is simply absurd. This also ignores the fact that a lot of modernist architects have the mental capabilities to enjoy both modern and classical .

I think the problem with modernism is that at its conception it was seen as representative of a nearly utopian (and definitely idealistic) future that would be free of pestilence, war, and disorder through advances in science and technology (these notions are apparent in retro-futurism). This desire for cleanliness and order –a breakaway from the past chaos and war of Europe and the world generally– was exacerbated after the horrors of World War Two and went from 'clean' to 'sterile'. This is why the best examples of modernism are (IMO) found before the 1940s and why the modern buildings of today are so often seen as unhuman and cold.

Likewise, the notion of being 'cutting edge' and 'innovative' is also inherently imbued in the idea of modernism. This too lies in its inception as a then very Avant-garde and radical style that pushed boundaries and rejected centuries of Architectural norms. This idea stroked the egos of the 'cultured man' in the early 20th Century.

I think that idea that 'architects design buildings to impress other architects' is especially true today, and 'groundbreaking', 'innovative', and 'radical' all seem to be buzzwords that modernists get off on.

You could also talk about how the austerity of modern design suited and was moulded by new-age capitalism post-WWII, but that would a very lengthy discussion.
While I still disagree that some of the key modernists weren't crazy, I do Strongly agree with some of the points you make here. Your final point about modern architecture especially resonates with me. At least looking back to when I was younger, the idea that modernism in America is especially tied to a post WWII corporate cheapness is something I always noticed, and was disturbed by. I find it Ironic when people talk about modernism as being a left wing thing, when here in the US, it tends to be more associated with corporate office parks, and sterile shopping malls.

Also, same with your second to last point, I feel like the field has become somewhat of a snobby clique/cult who's followers are disconnected from the very customers they serve.
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Old September 11th, 2017, 01:03 PM   #9108
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Sereousely! Dont do things like this!



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Old September 11th, 2017, 05:31 PM   #9109
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Old September 11th, 2017, 05:34 PM   #9110
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Newly Constructed Building in Palace Grounds
Thanjavur Royal Palace
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Old September 12th, 2017, 12:43 AM   #9111
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Old September 12th, 2017, 09:33 AM   #9112
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Do you ever do anything except pass judgement?

Your last contribution to this thread was 6 months ago - and it was a repost of mine!

You need to really look at this because you might not even be aware your own pessimism.

This thread doesn't need anymore pundits.

Be respectful of the time and effort that people put into posting projects, even if they may not always be to your liking.
Hed_Kandi, as mentioned several times i really appreciate the work you and other contributers put into this threat. Most examples are pretty good and so i dont think i have to cheer up at every time a good example gets posted. But this is not a question of my liking or not. I will continue to indicate bad examples for the simple reason of education! If we want the world to get new high quality examples of traditional architecture, we have to point out what is good and what is bad. And thats what i do, and will continue!

But i will try to make it more clear when i like building and not only criticize
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Old September 12th, 2017, 11:28 AM   #9113
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New multifamily villa in Berlin (2017) by Ralf Schmits architect Sebastian Treese:





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Old September 12th, 2017, 11:30 AM   #9114
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New house replacing car park in Berlin 2017. By Patschke & Partners. Notice the new trompe l'oeil!







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Old September 12th, 2017, 03:25 PM   #9115
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Classical architecture always attracted me. Thank you for showing me these pictures.
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Old September 14th, 2017, 06:57 PM   #9116
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Modernism replaced with classicism in St Petersburg, Russia. The adress is "Финский пер., 4" . Completed 2014. A bulding full of imagination!















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Old September 15th, 2017, 09:00 PM   #9117
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It's a damn shame how much of the Chicago stuff is replacing gorgeous old Victorian buildings for McMansions.

However, it's good to see some of the replacements are of some sort of quality.
Check the address and Google Street View. It's a renovation of an existing house built in 1910, which seemed to have already lost any ornamentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
While I still disagree that some of the key modernists weren't crazy, I do Strongly agree with some of the points you make here. Your final point about modern architecture especially resonates with me. At least looking back to when I was younger, the idea that modernism in America is especially tied to a post WWII corporate cheapness is something I always noticed, and was disturbed by. I find it Ironic when people talk about modernism as being a left wing thing, when here in the US, it tends to be more associated with corporate office parks, and sterile shopping malls.

Also, same with your second to last point, I feel like the field has become somewhat of a snobby clique/cult who's followers are disconnected from the very customers they serve.
I can't say I've ever understood the claim post-war modernism was "cheap." In fact, it was considered cutting edge. Concerning political idiotology, it is ironic when you consider the fact Le Corbusier was a rabid fascist.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 10:39 AM   #9118
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New garden city in Stockholm suburb Spånga. Built 2002 by SMÅA. Unfort very little online pictures. I will try to fotograf myself in time.





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Old September 18th, 2017, 09:56 AM   #9119
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Not sure about this being traditional. Colors are beautifull and those shutters are lovely, but beside that the buildings and the overal street layout are pretty car centric and modernist.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 12:13 PM   #9120
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Royal Ontario Museum: Old with new architecture

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