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Old November 27th, 2013, 03:42 PM   #1901
m.a.g.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by entazis View Post
Here's another old picture. In General, this building was previously not residential. It was the institution. In my opinion, the architect has successfully coped with a problem task of repair.
In the photo - the far left extension is this building before renovation.:

http://oldmos.ru/old/upload/photos/2...d1bb1f6fc0.jpg

After renovation:
Here is my opinion:
First of all, the original look of the building wasn't so bad (at least not as that yellow building in its original state). Having in mind those strictly modernist proportions of the whole facade, maybe the renovation should have been done in completely different manner, as it's really hard to cope with such elements in classical design. However, there still was a solution to merge three windows in every column of the middle and lower portion in one glass surface (with proper glass subdivisions of course). The result would be two large vertically oriented elements (plus upper suqarish glass surface) in every column, instead of six ribbon windows that we see now.
Furthermore, current glass subdivisions are not correct at all, they are even worse than original, especially in upper portion.
Stone elements are quite good in my opinion, and it was clearly pretty expensive renovation, but again that glass, it looks cheap and with too much reflection.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 05:19 PM   #1902
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The stone elements while nicely detailed are much too large for the building. The protrusions on the roof line should not be necessary.
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Old November 27th, 2013, 06:10 PM   #1903
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Why do architects always half- these classical revival buildings? Why cant they just make a good one for once?
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Old November 28th, 2013, 08:52 AM   #1904
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Why cant they just make a good one for once?
Post an example of what your're talking about.
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Old November 28th, 2013, 06:19 PM   #1905
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I'm talking about an actually good looking classical, or Victorian building. Not just some kitsch looking cheesy building molded out of Styrofoam with horrible proportions!

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Old November 29th, 2013, 02:21 PM   #1906
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Is there any sense to compare a large public building, not a masterpiece too, with simple apartment house on the outskirts of the city?

Quote:
Originally Posted by m.a.g. View Post
Here is my opinion:
First of all, the original look of the building wasn't so bad (at least not as that yellow building in its original state). Having in mind those strictly modernist proportions of the whole facade, maybe the renovation should have been done in completely different manner, as it's really hard to cope with such elements in classical design. However, there still was a solution to merge three windows in every column of the middle and lower portion in one glass surface (with proper glass subdivisions of course). The result would be two large vertically oriented elements (plus upper suqarish glass surface) in every column, instead of six ribbon windows that we see now.
Furthermore, current glass subdivisions are not correct at all, they are even worse than original, especially in upper portion.
Stone elements are quite good in my opinion, and it was clearly pretty expensive renovation, but again that glass, it looks cheap and with too much reflection.
In this case, nobody rebuilt entire building. Renovation touched only the later addition, in which previously housed the institution. Don't know what good you saw in it. This extension was so faceless, that hardly survived the old photo. Here is another accidentally found a picture. Watch and rate.
Before & after:
.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 03:18 AM   #1907
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German emulations look very neat and moderate, yet I agree there must be a measured approach. If u start building block upon block of them these developments would look really bleak. Russian approach may feel indeed garish and tastless sometimes but so is the Russian way. Especially if you take into account how gloomy the environment here for half a year can be. We can't build without exaggerating.
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Old November 30th, 2013, 12:32 PM   #1908
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Residential house on Elagin island "Venice", Saint-Petersburg, architect Evgeny Gerasimov and partners, 2012.


.

Residential quarter in St. Petersburg, 2003.


Residential home, restored in neoclassical style, St. Petersburg, 1910, 2003.

Photos by Warryg
Sources:
http://karpovka.net/2012/11/04/76080/
http://spb.gdeetotdom.ru/new-house/288-venecija/

These samples at least not look so sterile and heartlessly as dried mummy
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Old November 30th, 2013, 03:36 PM   #1909
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Modern African Architecture- Limpopo




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Old December 1st, 2013, 02:50 AM   #1910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by entazis View Post
Is there any sense to compare a large public building, not a masterpiece too, with simple apartment house on the outskirts of the city?

.
How about a fairer comparison

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Old December 1st, 2013, 04:27 PM   #1911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
How about a fairer comparison
I'm not against relevant comparisons. However, this forum thread devoted to contemporary architecture, designed as a classic. Everything shown You the examples are pretty good. But it was over a hundred years ago. In General, the Victorian Era, and for our country it was the Russian Empire Era was the time of the highest praise of beauty. Sorry, but these times are definitely over. Then in Russia were built thousands of beautiful buildings. An example is the historic center of Moscow and the splendid St. Petersburg. If You want to fairly compare, for example I can bring the building in Moscow, reminiscent of yours.




Residential house at the turn of 19-20 centuries, Moscow, Bolshaya Dmitrovka street, 22:

In my opinion these two houses belong to the same time and purpose, have similar external decoration. Therefore, they are to some degree equivalent, although built on different continents.

I read an article on Your link:
http://www.preservationchicago.org/c...05/heritage/42
Your struggle for the preservation of cultural heritage worthy of respect. We also have such local conflicts for the preservation of historic buildings and areas. Often, public opinion in support of antiquity is a success. Obviously there are such a struggle of the old and new underway in many old cities in different countries.

Last edited by entazis; December 1st, 2013 at 04:44 PM.
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Old December 1st, 2013, 07:32 PM   #1912
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Still, what I'm trying to say, is that the materials the building is made with, combined with disproportionate cornices, and oddly placed modern windows make the buildings look almost too cheesy, like something of a suburban shopping mall.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 01:28 AM   #1913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
Still, what I'm trying to say, is that the materials the building is made with, combined with disproportionate cornices, and oddly placed modern windows make the buildings look almost too cheesy, like something of a suburban shopping mall.
It is because architects are not taught how to design traditional buildings in school. They have to learn on their own when they get out of school and there is no one there to critique their designs and guide them in the right direction.

There are a few schools that are teaching traditional architecture such as the University of Notre Dame and University of Colorado in Denver, but they are the minority. Most architecture schools teach modernism, and most of the design professors at those schools, not having been taught traditional architecture themselves, are not qualified to teach traditional architecture.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 01:40 AM   #1914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
Still, what I'm trying to say, is that the materials the building is made with, combined with disproportionate cornices, and oddly placed modern windows make the buildings look almost too cheesy, like something of a suburban shopping mall.
Any comparison can be convincing, if it is confirmed by concrete examples. Show these images please. Otherwise it is empty words.

In the vicinity of Moscow there are many suburban shopping malls, but none with such architectural details. On the contrary, in the European architecture are enough examples of applying the so-called "giant orders" from ancient times to the neo-classicism of the 20th century. Special interest of the application of the giant order represents the architecture of the late Italian Renaissance. It was at this period focused design of the building, which You diligently trying to criticize. Here are some examples:

Antiquity____________________________________________Andrea Palladio. Palazzo del Capitanio in Vicenza. 1565.
.

Pharmacy of K. Ferrein in Moscow, architect. A. Erichson, 1896.
.
http://ussrnow.com/uploads/images/ne.../thumb/044.jpg

In this building in Moscow in 1930-1950s housed the Embassy of the United States, architect. Ivan Zholtovsky

http://officemonitor.ru/resources/of...na-mohovoi.jpg

.

Technical building of the 1930's in Moscow, Stalin's neo-classicism

http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/s/y/synthart/Fasad1.JPG

Profitable home in St. Petersburg, neo-Renaissance, architect Vladimir Shchuko, 1912.

http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/3109898/post217130736/

Examples might be more, but I don't want anything more to prove. I advise you to carefully study the textbook on the history of architecture.
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Old December 2nd, 2013, 01:49 AM   #1915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRouchell View Post
It is because architects are not taught how to design traditional buildings in school. They have to learn on their own when they get out of school and there is no one there to critique their designs and guide them in the right direction.

There are a few schools that are teaching traditional architecture such as the University of Notre Dame and University of Colorado in Denver, but they are the minority. Most architecture schools teach modernism, and most of the design professors at those schools, not having been taught traditional architecture themselves, are not qualified to teach traditional architecture.
This shows that You are far from European architectural school.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 01:01 PM   #1916
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Russian approach may feel indeed garish and tastless sometimes but so is the Russian way. Especially if you take into account how gloomy the environment here for half a year can be. We can't build without exaggerating.
I wouldn't agree with this point of view. It sounds like "yes, we make kitsch and we're proud of that because that's what we are". There are different examples of Russian neo-classic buildings and some of them are quite moderate (close to German way). But even if most of them are kitschy (what seems to be true) there's no reason to try turning this drawback into a merit. That's a sad result of a lack of proper architecture education not some specific "Russian way".
In fact Russian architecture has traditionally been pretty moderate in comparison with its western contemporaries. I mean in the first place typical city streets architecture not some outstanding palaces and cathedrals which could have been rather exquisite (as everywhere all over the world). Compare a typical rental house (or a hotel, a museum building, a department store) of late XIX century in the center of St. Petersburg with its analogue in Berlin, Budapest or Paris - the first of these would most likely look like a poor (though maybe proud) relative. We didn't have any close analogue of French wedding-cake-like beaux-arts style, for example, and even Russian version of art-nouveau (which is called moderne in Russia) in general is stricter and, well, "cheaper" (not in a bad way) than those in Vienna, Paris or Madrid. Sometimes the reason was just the lack of money, but nevertheless. So what we have now is a sort of a historical perversion. Thanks to the Soviets with years and years of crappy architecture!
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 03:25 PM   #1917
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This does not fully explain the reasons. Need some clarification. In its time the Soviet architecture had a number of stages and until the mid-1950s, mainly developed in the mainstream of the classical European tradition. At that time outstanding Russian architects worked who received academic education in the Russian Empire. Buildings of that time were luxurious and expensive. At the same time, the country experienced a severe shortage of housing, because suffered from the Nazi occupation during the Second World war. Time of "crappy architecture" began after the visit of Khrushchev to States. Then, under the pretext of savings and rationalism the Academy of Architecture of the USSR was liquidated, and high style has been replaced to a primitive design. It was a mistake of Khrushchev. Now you can see that this mould touched not only Russia, but has spread around the world. So pathetic attempts to return to the classics in many countries turn to kitsch and vulgarity. Now millions of people are attached to the "world classics" on examples casino, Disneyland and shopping centers. Occur confusion and devaluation of good taste. This is a universal crisis of the artistic culture.

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Old December 4th, 2013, 10:16 PM   #1918
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Well I think you can say that the Russian buildings are following in an established tradition... so it is traditional. Case closed.
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Old December 7th, 2013, 01:58 AM   #1919
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But can we aleast not attempt to hijack the thread with them, and maybe find some other good stuff too?
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Old December 7th, 2013, 04:23 AM   #1920
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But can we aleast not attempt to hijack the thread with them, and maybe find some other good stuff too?
That is your prerogative. I don't see why we should try to suppress architecture that is appropriate for this thread on the basis of your tastes. If you want to see other things, feel free to share them with us.

I don't at all mind the Russian architecture, so I'll sit back.
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