daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 26th, 2010, 12:34 AM   #121
Cherguevara
Registered User
 
Cherguevara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,887
Likes (Received): 3547

Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
High floor trams are cheaper than low floor trams as they have simpler engineering, yes a lot of german citys are switching to high floor to provide compatability with traditional rail networks for tram-train interoperability.

Most of the underway and planned expansions are conversions of rail lines so its still value for money at the moment, High platforms do cost about 5-10 times low platforms but its one initial cost that last decades.
Cheers Watcher.

So what you loose in one way you gain in the other? It's good to know the system isn't hamstrung by a choice it was forced into.
Cherguevara no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 26th, 2010, 04:15 AM   #122
Frodz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 886
Likes (Received): 0

Also with a high platform system passengers waiting at a station are kept out of the path of pedestrians which no doubt is useful in the busy city centre. Can you imagine people waiting in the middle of market st for example at a low platform station?
Frodz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 02:27 AM   #123
XCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Likes (Received): 0

I had a go at mocking up a 3B network/route map. I think this shows the latest thinking according to GMITA papers but comments more than welcome...



Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkO View Post
Wow! Cheers guys!

That is an outstandingly clear and useful list Che.

Yeah, Marky, I do need to have a look at refining it with the 3b sections and latest thoughts on where all the services will run. Will get on to the wonderful Robin next year and see if can help us out.

Thanks for your thoughts and lets make sure we all get the very best map for what is gonna be the UKs biggest light rail system :-)

And obviously we'll put the correct name at Pollard St - unless GMPTE get Matt Lucas to open the station????!!! ;-)
XCH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 09:31 AM   #124
WatcherZero
Registered User
 
WatcherZero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19,602

Brilliant work XCH.

When Abraham Moss and Queens road are built (now confirmed) Woodlands Road will close.
On the South Manchester line after Trafford Bar the confirmed named stops are: Firswood, Chorlton, St Werburgh's Road. Then after the turn south theirs a (still) unconfirmed stop Hough End before Barlow Moor Road.
WatcherZero no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 01:27 PM   #125
MarkO
Registered User
 
MarkO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 270

Quote:
Originally Posted by XCH View Post
I had a go at mocking up a 3B network/route map. I think this shows the latest thinking according to GMITA papers but comments more than welcome...


WOW! BRAVO XCH

That's the best one I've seen so far!!

Excellent - the thing I really love about your design is that you can get a real idea of how much a "network" of lines it will become. I think you deserve a prize for that!

Hey Watcher - think you have that all right there (Shame about Chorlton High, quite liked that, and St Werburgs Road sound kind of awkward and clunky for some inexplicable reason) also I thought they'd also decided on "New Islington" for "(Vicky) Pollard Street"??

This is the latest release of the 3b 'strip-map' from GMPTE:
image hosted on flickr
MarkO no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #126
MarkO
Registered User
 
MarkO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 270

After having another closer inspection XCH I noticed you've done something that few others have achieved: you've managed to lose that faintly swastika-esque look that the official maps of the extensions have suffered from for over a decade!

I also like your line/numbering plan, personally i think it's the only sensible way forward (even if the trams are interchangeable, it's much more helpful to the passenger to have it set out like you have done.

May I respectfully suggest a few more pieces of fine tuning?:

* On the East Mancs line, have a go at placing the station names all horizontal - I just think it will be easier to read. You can take a trick from Beck and place them alternately above and below the line :-)

* On a purely aesthetic note, I might thicken the lines just a tad: just 20% thicker even. reason being when they run alongside each other it's easier for the eye to follow if they are weightier.

* Add a Line 4 terminus marker at Piccadilly

* Last thought: your line colours are pleasant tom look at but 1 & 2 are just a wee bit too similar in hue maybe? Perhaps go for a more orangey yellow and a more darker green? Just might help make them stand out from each other better. While you're at it you might even make Line 5 a tad darker blue, and Line 6 a bloodier red maybe?

Just a few thoughts! :-)

Last edited by MarkO; January 30th, 2010 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Oooops! Horizontal I meant not vertical - imagine!
MarkO no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 02:01 PM   #127
XCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Likes (Received): 0

Cheers guys for all your comments - all appreciated. Will amend it when I get a chance later. I definitely agree with the colours comment, I was struggling with the right combo.

I may try and do a version with the Trafford Centre line in, but from personal experience with Peel Holdings i think that line is a long shot without some public funds.
XCH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 30th, 2010, 03:42 PM   #128
Cherguevara
Registered User
 
Cherguevara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,887
Likes (Received): 3547

Quote:
Originally Posted by XCH View Post
I had a go at mocking up a 3B network/route map. I think this shows the latest thinking according to GMITA papers but comments more than welcome...

Great map XCH, very interesting. The only comment I have would be that your Rochdale/Shaw-Airport/Didsbury lines probably aren't right. The PTE is planning 6 minute services to the Airport (I think) and Didsbury (I'm sure), so not all services from those lines will travel north of Victoria. Not quite sure how you'd make this clear on the map though.
Cherguevara no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2010, 06:26 AM   #129
city_thing
Put it in your mouth
 
city_thing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne.
Posts: 7,128
Likes (Received): 883

Manchester Airport's already served by trains isn't it? How frequent are they?

And is there really enough demand to extend the Metrolink out there? There's so many stops on that line too, I imagine it'd take quite a while to get into town. Will the train be offered as a 'premium service' (similar to the Heathrow Express) and the Metrolink offered as a cheaper but longer service (similar to the Piccadilly line)?
__________________
Calling occupants of interplanetary craft...
city_thing no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2010, 03:21 PM   #130
XCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Likes (Received): 0

OK, here's my next go with all amendments as suggested. Unfortunately can't get a decent resolution version on photobucket but it gives you the idea - its designed with an A2 or A1 paper size, which would be appropriate for stop etc. You would obviously need a scaled down version for inside the trams themselves.


Last edited by XCH; January 31st, 2010 at 11:36 PM.
XCH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2010, 05:43 PM   #131
XCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Likes (Received): 0

Does anyone know which stops will have interchange with rail and bus?
XCH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2010, 07:37 PM   #132
lightrail
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 205
Likes (Received): 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
Manchester Airport's already served by trains isn't it? How frequent are they?

And is there really enough demand to extend the Metrolink out there? There's so many stops on that line too, I imagine it'd take quite a while to get into town. Will the train be offered as a 'premium service' (similar to the Heathrow Express) and the Metrolink offered as a cheaper but longer service (similar to the Piccadilly line)?
Trains to Piccadilly run approximately every 10 minutes during the day (some are all stop and others run express) and take about 16 minutes. Trains also run to other parts of the UK, normally on a hourly or bi-hourly schedule - most extension of the Piccadilly trips.

The tram serves a different market - more local - and makes new connections. For example, you'd be able to travel by tram to Manchester Airport Stn then connect to a train go south from there, avoiding Stockport or Piccadilly.
lightrail no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2010, 09:52 PM   #133
Cherguevara
Registered User
 
Cherguevara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,887
Likes (Received): 3547

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightrail View Post
The tram serves a different market - more local - and makes new connections. For example, you'd be able to travel by tram to Manchester Airport Stn then connect to a train go south from there, avoiding Stockport or Piccadilly.
The main purpose of the Airport line is to link the deprived communities of Wythenshawe (an area dominated by social housing and high rates of unemployment) with the employment sites near the airport and in the city centre. The line is not expected to be as busy as some of the others, but is expected to provide the impetus for regeneration along the route.

XCH - I love the new version of the map, although I think you've got some of the service frequencies wrong. I can't imagine they'd run a tram only every 24 minutes on the Trafford Centre line, and I'm pretty sure Didsbury to Shaw will be every 12 minutes in the peak.

In terms of Bus/Rail interchanges I'm pretty sure that Sale, Central Park, West Didsbury and Wythenshawe Town Centre will be bus interchanges and that Ashton-under-Lyne and East Didsbury will be rail interchanges. Longer term there are potential plans for a rail interchange at Baguley, but I don't think it will be open for a while after the Metrolink line.

Last edited by Cherguevara; January 31st, 2010 at 09:58 PM.
Cherguevara no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 31st, 2010, 10:41 PM   #134
XCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherguevara View Post
The main purpose of the Airport line is to link the deprived communities of Wythenshawe (an area dominated by social housing and high rates of unemployment) with the employment sites near the airport and in the city centre. The line is not expected to be as busy as some of the others, but is expected to provide the impetus for regeneration along the route.

XCH - I love the new version of the map, although I think you've got some of the service frequencies wrong. I can't imagine they'd run a tram only every 24 minutes on the Trafford Centre line, and I'm pretty sure Didsbury to Shaw will be every 12 minutes in the peak.

In terms of Bus/Rail interchanges I'm pretty sure that Sale, Central Park, West Didsbury and Wythenshawe Town Centre will be bus interchanges and that Ashton-under-Lyne and East Didsbury will be rail interchanges. Longer term there are potential plans for a rail interchange at Baguley, but I don't think it will be open for a while after the Metrolink line.
Thanks Che, the service frequencies I used were a best guess based on the peak frequencies shown in a recent GMITA document (see below). In the document it says they have yet to be confirmed but it looks like the latest thinking. The non-peak frequencies were a pure guess, with mostly roughly half of peak. I thought the TC line would be much busier during working hours since most of the stops serve the employment areas of Trafford Park.



PS I've edited my last post with a revised map. Think thats me done on it for a while. I've spent too much of the weekend on it already.
XCH no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2010, 01:41 AM   #135
Cherguevara
Registered User
 
Cherguevara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,887
Likes (Received): 3547

Quote:
Originally Posted by XCH View Post
Thanks Che, the service frequencies I used were a best guess based on the peak frequencies shown in a recent GMITA document (see below). In the document it says they have yet to be confirmed but it looks like the latest thinking. The non-peak frequencies were a pure guess, with mostly roughly half of peak. I thought the TC line would be much busier during working hours since most of the stops serve the employment areas of Trafford Park.



PS I've edited my last post with a revised map. Think thats me done on it for a while. I've spent too much of the weekend on it already.
We won't know how the system is going to actually operate for a good few years yet so your guess is as good as mine! But with the Didsbury line there definitely isn't going to be 15 services an hour between Didsbury and Shaw (which is what a 12 minute Dids-Roch and a 6 minute Dids-Shaw service would entail). As for Trafford I'm convinced they'll just do what they do with the Eccles line and run a 12 minute service all day, even if it's not that busy. The Trafford Centre being open until 10pm and regular football matches should mean it has some relatively busy evenings.

Next time you feel like breaking you paint pots out again let me know, as I have lots of ideas for tram-train expansions.
Cherguevara no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 1st, 2010, 02:40 AM   #136
lightrail
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 205
Likes (Received): 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherguevara View Post
Great map XCH, very interesting. The only comment I have would be that your Rochdale/Shaw-Airport/Didsbury lines probably aren't right. The PTE is planning 6 minute services to the Airport (I think) and Didsbury (I'm sure), so not all services from those lines will travel north of Victoria. Not quite sure how you'd make this clear on the map though.
Excellent map - well done.
lightrail no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 02:03 PM   #137
MarkO
Registered User
 
MarkO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 270

Quote:
Originally Posted by XCH View Post

You get the prize XCH - this is the clearest map ever created of the full Metrolink planned services IMHO.

First class effort :-)
MarkO no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2010, 12:44 PM   #138
MarkO
Registered User
 
MarkO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 270

Couple of nice short videos of the new trams in service - clock the weather too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WaD65nE7xE

Here in the only section that looks vaguely 'underground' (it's actually under Piccadilly mainline station)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2whXJrw54

And here at Victoria:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o1MPMfc9nE

Enjoy
:-)
MarkO no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2010, 12:47 PM   #139
MarkO
Registered User
 
MarkO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 969
Likes (Received): 270

And for any nostalgia enthusiasts: the Bury-Victoria section pre-Metrolink when it was still run by third-rail electric trains!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o1MPMfc9nE

Enjoy
:-)
MarkO no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 10th, 2010, 08:43 PM   #140
poshbakerloo
***Alexxx***
 
poshbakerloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London, Manchester, Cheshire, Sheffield, Moscow
Posts: 5,094
Likes (Received): 292

The new trams look great, I see them sometimes on my way to work
__________________
"BEFORE WE MARRY...I HAVE A SECRET!"

I <3 London
poshbakerloo no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium