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Old August 18th, 2017, 03:55 PM   #1661
cunningPlan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
How would you rank Manchester's public transportation on 0-10 scale?
Comparing within the UK - 6 seems fair. Comparing with continental Europe I'd say more like 4.
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Old August 18th, 2017, 05:31 PM   #1662
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I'd give it about 4 - the City Centre scores a bit higher as do the surrounding boroughs of Tameside and Trafford - but the rest its not good - as an example if I was to attempt to visit by public transport one of the four super hospitals in Manchester, by car it is about two miles by main road but I would have to take two buses on a journey twice as long, no rail or tram option, indeed there isn't even a convenient station near the hospital- so for my borough, Stockport is about a 3 :-(
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Old August 18th, 2017, 05:56 PM   #1663
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Is it that bad?
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Old August 18th, 2017, 08:34 PM   #1664
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From my experience living in other cities around the world, I would say about 3 out of 10.

On a positive note, it actually has a fair amount of rail infrastructure in place (as in actual lines). The problem is, is that most are just two tracks clogged with old slow diesel trains with very poor frequencies.

On another positive note there is a higher frequency tram network in-between where in parts it "almost" feels like a mini metro (those few parts where it is grade separated from traffic), but then it is ruined by very poor connections with the rail network (look at the thoughtlessness gone into East Didsbury & Eccles), incredibly slow sections (like Salford Quays and the city center) and single car trams that get so full during the peak, people can't fit on the packed cars and have to wait for later trains. This has only ever happened in London for me and nowhere else, not even Tokyo or New York. That is very poor.

On the positive side it has some frequent bus lines like the one down Oxford Rd where the city proudly boasts the busiest bus street in Europe - but that really means that they should have built an underground metro line down it - which is what has probably happened to all of the "busiest bus routes" around Europe. Also, the buses here are very badly designed with only one door so dwell times at stops are extremely slow, with heavily congested streets and no through services. Buses are so unbelievably slow in this city I generally give up and don't go somewhere if it requires a bus journey - and sometimes the frequencies are really crap. I have come across more than one stop where I missed a bus only to find the next one was an hour later!

On the positive side there is a something called a smart card, but in reality it is the dumbest card you can buy. There is nothing at all smart about it. In fact, there is no real unified ticketing system in this city and it is extremely expensive and confusing to figure out how to get around.

On the positive side, there is some form of inner city transit, as there are a couple of trams lines that pass through the city. But that's it, no underground rail lines which quite frankly is breathtaking. The only proper train line that services the central area skirts the outside of it passing through old, rundown stations, with low frequencies, old trains, no consistency on which trains stop where, no clear map to show how it works together and they even plan to reduce this by closing Deansgate Station - a station at the heart of the largest urban growth area in the country outside London.

It begs belief.

Almost everything that has recently been built in Manchester as far as public transit goes, is done so at what seems the lowest possible budget with little thought into overall infrastructure and the city as a whole.

Manchester has so much opportunity in public transport and in fact invented the railways the rest of the world enjoys, but it has somehow let itself go over the last few decades to reduce itself to what we have now.

Sure, the tram system is slowly growing (although it is still a fraction of the size it used to be) but at the end of the day trams are just fancy buses and Greater Manchester is a city of nearly 3 million people and double maybe triple that it the surrounding commuter belt.

Sorry everyone if I sound so glum here, but when I read a week or so ago that Deansgate station may be closed, I pretty much just lost faith in Manchester'a public transport. And to read all the comments from people thinking it should close shows me that there is probably no chance things here will really improve.

I just hope I am wrong.
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Old August 18th, 2017, 09:01 PM   #1665
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What's wrong with trams?
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Old August 18th, 2017, 09:43 PM   #1666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VDB View Post
A solid 0.5.

If we actually had the support of our "government" it has the potential to be a 9.5 but I'm not actually sure the current government know that there's a world outside London
That's a very pessimistic viewpoint. I have a number of friends who live in areas where public transport is genuinely very poor and they would give their eye teeth for what we have access to.
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Old August 18th, 2017, 10:17 PM   #1667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
What's wrong with trams?
Absolutely nothing, but the Manchester City Region needs more tramway/light rail. It also needs a better heavy rail network linking to other regional centres not just London. We had been lead to believe that we were going to see massive investment linking Manchester to Liverpool and Leeds/North East but that seems to be rapidly disappearing in favour of yet another major project in London.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 03:25 PM   #1668
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Like Altfish, I'd give it a 6 but that's down to a lot of local perseverance.

I'd say the Metrolink is what lifts that number considerably and its generally pretty good. Its a decent system, pretty reliable and quick but we need more trams and more of it going more places.

Buses, where I live are frequent, quick and reliable. But they're pricey and the ticketing isn't very well integrated into the rest of GMs public transport.

The trains vary between the pretty good to the absolutely awful. Manchester has some pretty good connections from both Piccadilly and Victoria but local services can often be overcrowded and on trains which were rubbish when new and now life expired.

As an alternate point of view, despite London getting a disproportionate amount of £££, their trains are just as old and overcrowded, something oft overlooked. And if you give Manchester, with its Metrolink and revamped mainline stations 0.5, what would you give Leeds and Bristol?

And there's nothing wrong with trams. Justme just likes to whinge, a lot of what he says is inaccurate/plain wrong... i.e the idea of Deansgate station closing is mere rumour/conjecture at this point, and certainly not openly welcomed by all and sundry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
.. but it has somehow let itself go over the last few decades to reduce itself to what we have now..
Miles of Metrolink track in 1990: 0
Miles of Metrolink track in 2017: 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
...Greater Manchester is a city of nearly 3 million people and double maybe triple that it the surrounding commuter belt..
GM, which includes an awful lot of the 'commuter belt' as it goes out to Wigan and past Stockport, Oldham, Bury, Rochdale etc has approx. 2.6m people. To triple that you'd have to include pretty much the entire populations of the Leeds and Liverpool city regions too. That said, as Freel07 points out, links to these cities should be greatly improved as a priority.

Last edited by iheartthenew; August 19th, 2017 at 03:48 PM.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 06:15 PM   #1669
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0.5 out of 10 is rather extreme IMO. Any plans for improvements? I read the gov is going to allow the metropolitan boroughs more independence or something.
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Old August 19th, 2017, 10:39 PM   #1670
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When is the Ordsall Chord due to be finished/opened for use?
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Old August 21st, 2017, 10:59 PM   #1671
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Some from sunny and wet Manchester:


3049 Deansgate Castlefield 5 August 2017


3049 & 3010 Deansgate Castlefield 5 August 2017


3110 Deansgate Castlefield 5 August 2017


3063 Deansgate Castlefield 5 August 2017


3068 at Deansgate Castlefield 5 August 2017


3101 Rochdale Station 5 August 2017


3078 Victoria 5 August 2017


3104 Victoria 6 August 2017


3086 Deansgate Castlefield 6 August 2017

More here:
https://transportsceneireland.smugmu...er-Trams-2017/
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Old September 5th, 2017, 11:01 AM   #1672
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I forgot to post these photos I took last week on here, sorry.

Here are some I took also today from various locations. Apologies for the rather over exposed shots.

From the car park.

P1240252a by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1240250 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1240254a by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1240256 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

I hadn't noticed these steel cladding panels over the concrete bridge sections before.

P1240258 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1240259 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1240261 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

Some complex curves in the swooshes.

P1240267 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

They are not yet welded in place. This one is on an adjustable steel bearing at present, presumably to allow it to be precisely lowerd into place for welding.

P1240269 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1240271 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1240272 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

New or refurbished stone on the old bridge.

P1240274 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1240275 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

Round to Water Street where the space under the arch at the junction with Liverpool Road is being paved in stone slabs.

P1240277 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1240280 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr
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Old September 5th, 2017, 11:19 AM   #1673
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The previous week I also had a quick walk along Pomona Strand and up Trafford Road to Exchange Quay and took a few shots of the Trafford Line work in that area.

The piling rig at Junction Bridge at Pomona.

P1110255 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110258 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110265 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

A rather poor attempt to look at the piling from the top of Pomona Strand.

P1110268 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

Far better from Trafford Road of course.

P1110271 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110269 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

Looking west through to the site of Sam Platts. I'm afraid I don't lament its passing as I don't possess any liking for football at all.

P1110273 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110275 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110280 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

The view from the tram at the top of Colgate Ramp would be better if they cleaned the windows/

P1110291 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr
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Old September 5th, 2017, 11:25 AM   #1674
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There is also work ongoing at Crumpsall to construct the new turnback layout for Trafford Line trams. These were taken before last weekend's closure to undertake some intrusive works. I have updated the text to take in info now available from the planning application.

I thought I'd get out today and have a look at Crumpsall, Whitefield (substation)and Brooklands (substation).

Crumpsall first.

What is basically a large hole by the steps down from the car park on the outbound side. Not sure what this might be for unless they are moving the footbridge and this is for the foundation. (edit we now know these are for the foundations for new overhead line poles.)

P1110208 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110212 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

The spoil is being dropped off at the Manchester end of the platform.

P1110214 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110220 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

A matching area fenced off on the inbound side.

P1110213 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

Over on the inbound side a new entrance has been created from Crumpsall Lane -

P1110214 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110223 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

and this puzzles me a little as they have constructed a massive ramp and turning area behind the inbound platform and pedestrian ramp. ( edit. again new info shows there will be a pedestrian ramp down from Crumpsall Lane but the present ramp is to allow plant in.)

P1110224 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr


P1110216 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110222 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

Has the plan for a Shaw style facility changed or is this a massively constructed construction plant approach road? (the plan is for a Shaw style layout after all and the ramp is a plant access road.)
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Old September 5th, 2017, 11:28 AM   #1675
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Works on the new traction substations at Whitefield on the Bury Line and Brooklands on the Altrincham Line. Again taken a couple of weeks ago.

Whitefield first to see how the substation is proceeding.

It sits adjacent to the car park at the Besses end.

P1110232 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110234 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

DNO cubicle with incoming feed cable visible.

P1110235 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110236 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

As I arrived this lorry was waiting to off load what looked like a control cabinet.

P1110230 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110242 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

Just visible behind the blue barriers are the trackside isolator cubicles and coiled on the 3rd pole are the inbound feeder cables.

P1110240 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

P1110240a by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

Still some way to go yet before it goes live.

Now south to Brooklands to look at the substation project there.

This one sits part way along the car park behind the outbound platform.

P1110247 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

The feeder poles are visible above the substation in this shot.

P1110248 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

From the inbound platform we can see the feeder pole on the outbound (2nd pole).

P1110250 by Steve Hyde, on Flickr

Again work still to complete here.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 12:37 PM   #1676
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Any attempt at proposing a lightrail connecting University of Salford with the University of Manchester, anyone? These are the blind spots now. Can be extended to be a Bolton - Stockport line.

Last edited by Lemanic; September 5th, 2017 at 12:44 PM.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 09:21 PM   #1677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemanic View Post
Any attempt at proposing a lightrail connecting University of Salford with the University of Manchester, anyone? These are the blind spots now. Can be extended to be a Bolton - Stockport line.
Nothing other than a very early idea about a tram train route to Wigan possibly. The Bolton Line is pretty well fully occupied with long distance trans so no real opportunity along that corridor with a whole new route.
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Old September 6th, 2017, 11:25 PM   #1678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemanic View Post
Any attempt at proposing a lightrail connecting University of Salford with the University of Manchester, anyone? These are the blind spots now. Can be extended to be a Bolton - Stockport line.
The local transport authority don't see the University of Manchester corridor as suitable for light rail, which is probably fair given the model they're following. Simply put, there's no space for an off road alignment anywhere south of the University, so trams would be very unlikely to be able to improve journey times to the southern suburbs. TfGM have instead placed bus priority at the centre of their plans here, and the three Universities are currently linked by Manchester's only BRT route. It's not a great solution at present, but TfGM hope to take over management of the bus network from the private operators in the next few years, which might mean more suitable vehicles for the inner city sections arrive at some point.

As Freel07 says Salford is a better medium term possibility, as it sits on the alignment of a potential route to Wigan.
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Old September 15th, 2017, 08:50 PM   #1679
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Quote:
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Whether you think it's a serious proposal or not it's certainly worth its own thread.

An incredible project that would, for sure, transform the economy of Northern England.




Hyperloop pods use magnetic levitation to lift pods above the track and gradually accelerate them using electric propulsion through a low-pressure tube. Due to ultra-low aerodynamic drag, the pods can glide at more than 1,200km per hour for long distances.

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/new...n-competition/

ARUP and Ryder Architecture have been working on the Northern Arc proposals, which have been selected by Elon Musk. The other one is the London-Edinburgh connector.

....
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Old September 17th, 2017, 07:46 PM   #1680
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Quote:
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Some from me today, nice to see #RainbowTram is still out on the network


Metrolink 3110 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


Metrolink 3055 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


Metrolink 3082 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


Metrolink 3091 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr
...
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