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Old May 8th, 2010, 04:30 PM   #181
Arasu
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Negative Sentence

Negative Sentence (Past and Present)

Naan paadavillai
I didn't sing.

The above negative is formed by using the infinitive form of the verb+v+illai.

paadu - sing
paada - to sing (infinitive)
paadavillai - didn't sing.


Naan Oadavillai.
I didn't run.

oadu - run
oada - to run (inf)
oadavillai - didn't run.

This above syntax is used to indicate negative both in the past and the present tense.

Negative Sentence (Future)

For negative sentences to indicate future tense, the construct,
"infinitive form of the verb+ maat+ pronoun suffix" is used.

e.g

Avar paada + maat+ aar = avar paadamaataar. ( He will not sing.)
Avan seyya + maat+ aan = avan seyyamaataan. ( He will not do.)

Avar = He (with respect)
avan = He (without respect)

However, for third person neutral gender, the rule is different.

e.g

Maadu mutta + aadhu = Maadu muttadhu. (Cow will not charge.)
maadu - cow
muttu (verb) - charge at
mutta - infinitive form of muttu, to charge at.

Naai kulaikka + aadhu = Naai kulaikkaadhu (Dog will not bark)
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Old May 9th, 2010, 01:50 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arasu View Post
Thank you very much, Sambhavi for the above post on Aathichudi which is among the first lessons offered to first graders in Tamilnadu studing in Tamil medium. It is unfortunate that so many English medium schools may not be teaching these nuggets of wisdom to the impressionable kids.
Even English medium students will be taught Aathichudi since it is included in Std 1 Tamil language text book.
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Old May 9th, 2010, 05:00 PM   #183
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Thank you, Anniyan for the information. I am a little removed from the happenings in TN and made my own assumptions.

By the way, it is important to know what the words 'Athichudi' means. Aathi is a pink coloured flower (fig?) and chudi is derived from 'soodu' of 'chudu' meaning 'wear'. Chudi means 'wearer'. Hence, Aathichudi means wearer of Aathi flower and is supposed to signify Lord Ganesh.

Another work of Avvaiyar is called 'Konraivendhan' where 'konrai' is another flower and 'vendhan' means king. King of Konrai flower is supposed to refer to Lord Shiva who wears a garland of konrai flowers.

Here are some aphorisms from Konraivendhan for the Tamil vowel letters.

கொன்றை வேந்தன்

1. அன்னையும் பிதாவும் முன்னறி தெய்வம்
2. ஆலயம் தொழுவது சாலவும் நன்று
3. இல்லறம் அல்லது நல்லறம் அன்று
4. ஈயார் தேட்டை தீயார் கொள்வர்
5. உண்டி சுருங்குதல் பெண்டிர்க்கு அழகு
6. ஊருடன் பகைக்கின் வேருடன் கெடும்
7. எண்ணும் எழுத்தும் கண் எனத் தகும்
8. ஏவா மக்கள் மூவா மருந்து
9. ஐயம் புகினும் செய்வன செய்
10. ஒருவனைப் பற்றி ஒரகத்து இரு
11. ஓதலின் நன்றே வேதியர்க்கு ஒழுக்கம்
12. ஒளவியம் பேசுதல் ஆக்கத்திற்கு அழிவு
13. அகமும் காசும் சிக்கெனத் தேடு
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Old May 9th, 2010, 05:19 PM   #184
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Negative Sentences (Cont..)

Command Sentences:

Commands are issued by using the regular form of verbs along with the subject.

Nee paadu. (You sing.)
Neengal oadungal. ( you (plural) run).

The negative command is issued thus:
For the singular subject, the infinitive form of the verb+ aadhe.
For the plural subject, the infinitive form of the verb+ aadheergal.

e.g

Nee paadu+aadhe = Nee paadaathe ( You don't sing)
Neengal paadu+aadheergal = Neengal paadaadheergal. ( you don't sing).
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 08:52 AM   #185
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What is Tamil for the following:

1. Enough (equivalent of Hindi=bas)
2. Stop (=ruko)
3. Jayega?
4. How much is this/What is the price of this? (Yeh kitna hai?)
5. I want/ I would like xxx
6. What is the time? (Time kya hai)
7. Where is xxx (xxx kidhar hai?)
8. If
9.But
10. Today/Yesterday/Tomorrow
11. When is xxx (xxx kab hai?)
12. Before/After
13. This (Yeh)
14. That (Voh)


What is the English meaning of:
1. Nallar Kingla
2. Enna padakingla
3. Paklam
4. Inda
5. Yadhe
6. Yaari
7. Eppadi irinkinge


Thanks in advance?
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 12:06 PM   #186
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1. Enough (equivalent of Hindi=bas) = pOadhum (long o)

2. Stop (=ruko) = nil - to stp moving
= niruthu - to stop doing
3. Jayega? = pOguma? (long o)

4. How much is this/What is the price of this? (Yeh kitna hai?)
= idhu ethanai rupa?
= idhu enna vilai (price)?

5. I want/ I would like xxx = enakku (mujhe) xxx vEnum.

6. What is the time? (Time kya hai) = time/mani enna?

The word 'mani' has several meanings in Tamil.

it can indicate time, bell, iris, precious stone, bead, etc.

7. Where is xxx (xxx kidhar hai?) = xxx enge?

8. If - a suffix 'aal' is added to the verb.
e.g. Nee ange ponaal, panam kidaikkum
you there go if, money will get.
I shall try to explain this with a separate post.

9.But - **** (long A)

10. Today/Yesterday/Tomorrow -
today - inru/ innakki
yesterday - nEtru/nEthiki
tomorrow - nAlai/nAlaiki
The first word is the high form. The second one is the colloquial and the spoken form. You would do well with the later.

11. When is xxx (xxx kab hai?) - xxx eppo?
Remember there is no auxiliary verb 'is' in Tamil.

12. Before/After - munne/pinne

13. This (Yeh) - idhu

14. That (Voh) - adhu


What is the English meaning of:
1. Nallar Kingla - should be reworded thus
Nalla irukkingala = Are you fine?
2. Enna padakingla
enna padikringa? is the colloquial form 'enna padikireergal?'
what are you reading. 'The suffix gal is added to indicate plural and/or respect just like in Hindi.

3. Paklam - can be reworded to 'pAkkalam' = Let me (us) see. The object (me/us) is not explicitly stated but understood from the context.

4. Inda - this
5. Yadhe - edhu = which
6. Yaari - yaar (u) = who
7. Eppadi irinkinge = how are you?

Last edited by Arasu; June 23rd, 2010 at 12:11 PM.
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 05:33 PM   #187
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Thanks profusely for being so prompt. I appreciated it a lot.

What is Tamil for:

1. Yaar/bhai (speaking to friends/peers)
2. Idhar/here
3. Udhar/there
4. front of/samne (i.e xxx IIT Madras ke samne hai)
5. Behind of/peeche (i.e. xxx IIT Madras ke peche hai)
6. And (aur)
7. Ahead/aage i.e***** IIT Madras ke aage hai ?
8.)Before/pehle i.e***** IIT Madras ke pehle hai?
9. Or/ya
10. I don't know Tamil
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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:07 PM   #188
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What is Tamil for:

1. Yaar/bhai (speaking to friends/peers)

nanbA (friend)
machan, machi - this is too close. normally refers to younger sister's husband or fiance.

2. Idhar/here - inge

3. Udhar/there - ange

4. front of/samne (i.e xxx IIT Madras ke samne hai)
munnA(a) - IITM munnAla irukku.

5. Behind of/peeche (i.e. xxx IIT Madras ke peche hai)
pinnAl(a) - IITM pinnAla irukku

Note: Literary pronunciation mostly ends with a consonant. (MunnAl/pinnAl). However, in the spoken language there is a clear tendancy to end with a vowel. Hence the addition of a munnA(a)/pinnAl(a).


6. And (aur)

Hindi 'aur' is a simple replacement for English 'and'. But in Tamil, it works differently. The word is 'um' pronounced 'vum' not 'am'. But it is a suffix attachment.

Kumarum Ravium kadaikku ponargal.
Kumar and Ravi went to the shop.

Neeyum naanum cinema pogalama?
Shall you and me go to cinema?

7. Ahead/aage i.e***** IIT Madras ke aage hai ?
edhiril - IITM edhiril enna irukku?

8.)Before/pehle i.e***** IIT Madras ke pehle hai?
munnAla - used this earlier for front as well. this word signifies both 'in front of' as well 'before' something.

9. Or/ya

The correct word would be 'alladhu' but not used in spoken/colloquial language. I suggest you to use 'illana' which means 'if not'.
'if not' and 'or' mean the same for all practical purposes.

10. I don't know Tamil.

enakku (mujhe) Tamil theriyadhu (don't know).
enakku Tamil theriyum. (know)
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Old June 24th, 2010, 08:46 AM   #189
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What is Tamil for:

1. What is this/that? (Yeh/voh kya hai?)
2. How much will it/this/that take? (Kitna time lagega?)
3. I liked it/this/that
4. I didn’t like it/this/that
5. I got it/I understood (Samjha)
6. I didn’t get it/understand (Mein nahi Samjha)
7. I’m fine/good (respectfully+casual)
8. More /Zyada
9. Less/Kam
10. Why?
11. Good
12. Bad
13. I am a student of xxx college/I study in xxx college (i.e. Mein IIT Madras mein student hu/padhta hu)
14. You got my point? You understood right?/ (Tu samjha na?)
15. What are you doing (Tum kya kar rahe ho?)
16. Turn right/left
17. Go straight
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Old June 24th, 2010, 11:49 AM   #190
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What is Tamil for:

Note: I am trying to use capital for long sounds.

1. What is this/that? (Yeh/voh kya hai?)
idhu/adhu enna?

2. How much will it/this/that take? (Kitna time lagega?)
idhukku/adhukku evvalavu (kitna) neram Agum?

In the previous post, I had used 'ethanai' - [how many] for kitna for numbers.
Now 'evvalavu' - [what measure] is used for kitna for time.

3. I liked it/this/that
enakku idhu/adhu pidikkum.
mujhe yeh/woh pasand hai.

4. I didn’t like it/this/that
enakku idhu/adhu pidikkAdhu.

I think I have written about negative sentences in this thread. Glance through it quickly.

5. I got it/I understood (Samjha)
enakku purindhadhu. (high form)
enakku purinjadhu is colloquial - preferable in conversation (but a not for writing)

Please read my posts on tense formation. It is very important.

6. I didn’t get it/understand (Mein nahi Samjha)
enakku puriyala. (la is a shortened form of illai in the coloquial expressions.)

7. I’m fine/good (respectfully+casual)
nAn nalla irukken
nAn sowkiyam.

Both ca be used. As you refer to yourself, no changes required for respect.

8. More /Zyada
innum

9. Less/Kam
konjam/kammi

10. Why?
En (long E) - not een but ean.

11. Good
nalla (adhu nalladhu for that is good)

12. Bad
ketta (adhu kettadhu for that is bad)

13. I am a student of xxx college/I study in xxx college (i.e. Mein IIT Madras mein student hu/padhta hu)

nAn IIT la padikkiren.

14. You got my point? You understood right?/ (Tu samjha na?)
unakku purinjadha?

15. What are you doing (Tum kya kar rahe ho?)
nee enna seyyara?

16. Turn right/left
rightla tirumbu.

17. Go straight
nEra po
nEra pOnga - for respect
gal is used for respect. In the spoken language l is left out of gal. Hence ponga instead of pOngal.

Last edited by Arasu; June 24th, 2010 at 11:55 AM.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #191
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What is Tamil for:

1. Is this fine with you? /Is it/that ok for you?
2. I am from Pune/Mein Pune se/ka hu)
3. How far is xxx? / How far is xxx from here?
4. How near is xxx? /How near is it to here?
5. My father is an xxx (govt servant/engineer)/ My mother is an xxx (doctor/housewife)
6. Give me this/that/it (N.B. Not “Mujhe Yeh chaiye but “Mujhe Yeh/voh dedo)
7. I live in Taramani/xxx (Mein Taramani mein rehta hu)
8. I want to go to xxx place (Mujhe xxx jaana hai)
9. Is this/that/it easy? Asaan hai kya?
10. Is this difficult/hard? Hard hai kya?
11. Nothing (Kuch nahi)
12. I don’t know/I know (Mujhe nahi pata/Mujhe pata hai)
11. Up/upar
12. Down/neeche
13. Slow
14. Fast
15. Too much (Bahauti Zyada hai)
16. Too little (Bahauti kam hai)
17. Early
18. Late
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Old June 24th, 2010, 05:30 PM   #192
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As you said in one of your earlier posts, you will be in Chennai for a short period of time. Do you really need to take so many Tamil lessons?
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Old June 24th, 2010, 06:27 PM   #193
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In my line of work knowing an additional Indian language is a major asset. Knowing another Indian language (after Hindi and one's mother tongue) not only gives you an advantage over others, it opens up areas which would have been closed otherwise. It is a definite bonus. Morever it's also my belief that if you're in a place picking up its language to the extent you can is a sensible thing to do.

Short space of time here means about 1 year at a minumum. Whether you want to call that a short space of time or not is up to you. After that 1 year whether I will take up work in Chennai is not something I'm sure of. That depends both on availability of opportunities as well as I whether I have the ability/desire to take them up. I do feel that if given a chance, I would take such a posting. I would really enjoy a posting in Tamil Nadu/other southern states. I'm not a south Indian for the record.

It goes without saying learning a language is a challenging and complex task. It takes time and effort. I am trying to learn the Tamil alphabet as well and have managed to grasp a few letters but it is tough to learn a new alphabet. You may ask why ask these queries but my Tamil learning book does not contain answers to most of the queries posted above. It is also true that a book is no substitute for a real flesh and blood person who can speak the language the way it is spoken, as opposed to textbook phrases.

I hope this answers your queries. If you have any more please feel free to ask. I want to express my appreciation again to Arasu for being so helpful.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 07:11 PM   #194
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Thank you, CosmicBliss. Learning another language opens your eyes and broadens your thinking. I happened to learn Telugu and Hindi when I stayed in AP and New Delhi. AP stay was only for a year, though but learning Telugu was faster for me as I see quite a lot of commonality, even if not so much in terms of shared vocabulary with Tamil.

For some reason, learning alphabets came easily to me. I have forgotten Telugu alphabets though due to disuse. Please post questions so it will be benefiicial for you and others as well who have similar question but are afraid to ask.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 07:44 PM   #195
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What is Tamil for:

1. Is this fine with you? /Is it/that ok for you?
idhu unakku (ungalakku - for respect) paravaillaiya (parva nahi hai)?

2. I am from Pune/Mein Pune se/ka hu)
en oor Pune.

3. How far is xxx? / How far is xxx from here?
xxx evvalavu dhooram inge irundhu?
inge irundhu means from here and you can feel free to place it any where in the sentence except between the noun (dhooram) and the preceding adjective (evvalavu).

4. How near is xxx? /How near is it to here?
xxx evvalavu pakkam? xxx evvalavu pakkam indha idathukku?

pakkam means near and also a page of a book.

5. My father is an xxx (govt servant/engineer)/ My mother is an xxx (doctor/housewife)

enndudaiya appa xxx. ennudaiya amma doctor.

6. Give me this/that/it (N.B. Not “Mujhe Yeh chaiye but “Mujhe Yeh/voh dedo)
enakku (mujhe) idhai/adhai kodu.

7. I live in Taramani/xxx (Mein Taramani mein rehta hu)

nAn Taramanila thangi irukiren. - I am staying in Taramani

nAn taramanila vazharen. - I live in Taramani (This expression is not used in spoken language). But you can write like that.

En veedu taramanila irukku(dhu). My house is in Taramani.

As I said better not to use the second expression as it sounds bookish.

8. I want to go to xxx place (Mujhe xxx jaana hai)
enakku Mahabalipuram pOganum.


9. Is this/that/it easy? Asaan hai kya?

adhu sulabhama?
adhu elidha? - elidhu is an old Tamil word used by Avvaiyar 2000 years back. You don't want to use it while speaking. Writing is alright.
adhu easiya?

You can use the Sanskrit/English words sometimes in preference to Tamil.

10. Is this difficult/hard? Hard hai kya?

idhu kashtama?
idhu kadinama?
Choose the first one for speaking and the latter for writing.

11. Nothing (Kuch nahi)
onnum illa.
summA

Or combine both of them together.

12. I don’t know/I know (Mujhe nahi pata/Mujhe pata hai)

enakku theriyadhu.

11. Up/upar

mEl, mEle

12. Down/neeche

keezh, keezhe

These words have connection with direction west (mEl) and east (Keezh).
In TN, the west side is rising and the east slopes down. Hence came to be used in the different meaning up and down.

13. Slow
mella, mellamA

14. Fast

vEgamA

15. Too much (Bahauti Zyada hai)
romba (remeber Kamal Hasan in Ek Dujhe ke liye)

16. Too little (Bahauti kam hai)
romba konjam

17. Early
seekiramA
viraivA
prefer the first

18. Late
thamadhamA
lateA

Choose the English alternative.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 08:01 PM   #196
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If you notice I have already posted a few questions. Let me post some more.

The following in Tamil is:

1. Bahut badiya/Kya baat hai (i.e. when congratulating someone)
2. This is expensive (Yeh menga hai)
3. This is cheap (Yeh sasta hai)
4. My birthday is ---
5. Life
6. Wait
7. Death
8. Everyday
9. Open it (Yeh Kholo)
10. Close it (Yeh band karo)
11. How are you (Casual+Formal)
12. Hot
13. Cold
14. Next
15. Previous
16. Again/Phirse
17. Because/kyunki (i.e. Voh patla hai kyunki voh kam khata hai)
18. Come
19. Girl
20. Boy
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Old June 24th, 2010, 08:28 PM   #197
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I think I have answere all your questions so far.


The following in Tamil is:

1. Bahut badiya/Kya baat hai (i.e. when congratulating someone)

romba nalla karyam/vishayam. ennudaiya vazthugal.
very good act/news. my wishes.

2. This is expensive (Yeh menga hai)
idhu vilai adhigam.
this price excessive.

3. This is cheap (Yeh sasta hai)
idhu vilai kuraivu.
this price less

4. My birthday is ---
en pirandha naal thEdhi ----
my birth day date ---

5. Life
vAzhkkai (vAzh -live (v))

6. Wait
(konjam) poru.

7. Death
sAvu

8. Everyday
dhinam thOrum
ovvoru nALum

9. Open it (Yeh Kholo)

adhai thira.

10. Close it (Yeh band karo)
adhai mUdu

11. How are you (Casual+Formal)

neengal eppadi irukeenga? - how are you?
Nee(ngal) nalamA? - are you well?
Nee(ngal) sowkiyama? are you well?

12. Hot - sUdu/soodu

13. Cold - kulir
14. Next - adutha

15. Previous - mun

16. Again/Phirse - marupadi/thirumbha

17. Because/kyunki (i.e. Voh patla hai kyunki voh kam khata hai)
En enrAl - is the proper high expression
Enna - is the compression of the above two words into one in the colloquial form.

18. Come - vA

19. Girl - pen ( not how you pronounce this word in English.) There is a difference you have to watch people.

The above is the formal expression but in the colloquial it gets transformed to 'pon'. Pon originally means gold.

This may be confusing. The actual Tamil word 'pon' means gold but also means in the colloquial sense 'girl' because people mispronounce (accepted) 'pen' as 'pon' in the colloquial language.


20. Boy - paiyyan
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Old June 24th, 2010, 09:27 PM   #198
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@Cosmicbliss - appreciate your efforts to learn new things. All the best.

@Arasu - Tamil master on SSC...you are doing a fantastic job and now you have got lots of students. Keep up the good work sir!!
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Old June 24th, 2010, 10:11 PM   #199
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Thank you ChennaiIndian.

One clarification on the previous post regarding:

13. Cold - kulir

When you say 'The air is cold', you can say:

katru kulirAga irukku.

However, if you want to say 'The coffee is cold', you can't do that.

'Coffee kulirAga irukku' is not at all used. They would say:

Coffee Ari pOivittadhu - Coffee became chill.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 12:55 PM   #200
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English for:

1. Mattrum
2. Nigal chigal
3. Vandrakudu
4. Vande.
5. Ipoh
6. Vanda
7. Veetrakan
8. Venna
9. Ursul
10. Adiye
11. Neram
12. Vaaram
13. Ennodu
14. Asthalam
15. Vazthukal
16. Maenda
17. Ungalakaga
18. Poo va?
19. Podi-Poda
20. Isaicharam
21. Pudusa
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