Some Tamil Lessons for Beginners (in English)

[Marathaman]

தமிழ்

[Arasu]

That is a great progress!


This song is sung by a Telugu girl who doesn't know Tamil and learned the pronunciation of the words through an online friend as she admits to SPB in the video in a Telugu program. I am amazed at her clear pronunciation. Too good.



I will be back shortly as I am temporarily out of action due to a minor accident.

[Arul Murugan]

Arasu, I am not able to follow the thread continuously since all those videos I cannot see here. Hope I am not disturbing the thread just want to share this...

There is doubt on below words whether these words went from Tamil to Sanskrit or vice versa.

Mayakkam - Mayak- Maya (Ilusion)
Arasu - Arasa - Rasa -Raja -Raj (King)
Pagalan -Pagalavan -Bagavan - Bhagvan (God)
Mann - Mani - Manu - Manush (Human)
Ma - Maha (Great)
Neer - Theer -Theerth (Water)
Agam -Agham -Aham (Inner)
Theivam -Theiva -Deiva -Deva (God)
Ulagam - Logam -Log - Lok (World)

[Arasu]

Here is an interesting and a scholarly article on the inluence of Dravidian languages on Sanskrit. Look at figure 2. towards the end of the article.

http://asnic.utexas.edu/asnic/subjec...languages.html

[Arasu]

As I am unable to make informative posts while recuperating from my broken left arm which I had hurt in two successive accidents ( an automobile accident due to skidding in the snow and immediately followed by a fall due to skidding as soon as I got out of the car), please listen to these songs:

(The lyrics is not great but the picturisation and music are good) We can discuss some of the lyrics and later move on to some aspects of grammar.

[srinivas]

can someone clear this doubt for me ?

how do we say " i miss u " in tamil ? i tried many combinations ... nothing worked out ...
kindly someone answer this...

[satishanu]

Unakkaga Engukiraen. Sounds like a good title for a Tamil Movie

[vamsireddy]

Originally Posted by Arasu

As I am unable to make informative posts while recuperating from my broken left arm which I had hurt in two successive accidents ( an automobile accident due to skidding in the snow and immediately followed by a fall due to skidding as soon as I got out of the car),

ayyo... seeghramaa nallabadi avutaarani(telugu word) aanDavul vendukondren.

OT:
Your post on colloquial and chentamil reminds me Vivek's comedy scene. Really funny the way the other guy "transel"s into Madras tamil.


I can understand 90% of movie dialogues and read too(thanks to "learn Tamil in 30 days" - finished in 4-hr sitting. First sentence I read was "saapadu tayaar" on a Hotel billboard) but if I attempt to speak in Tamil it sounds more Karunanidhi style than colloquial

[vamsireddy]

Originally Posted by Arasu

This is a love song about Kannan - (Lord Krishna) from a devotee of him

How did Krishna come to be called Kannan?

Here is my conjecture:
There is no Kru (कृ) in Tamil and there is no 'sh' (ष) either.
So, they have been dropped and only k (ka) was retained.
Since there is 'n' that was retained.
And another 'n' added to indicate the masculine gender of the person.

Hence, Krishna came to be called Kannan.
Any way that was my hypothesis. Some Tamil pundits would be able to confirm it.

Thats an interesting hypothesis, Arasu. Does "kannamma" mean "krishnamma" then?
Also, "krishna" means dark/black - like "Krishnaphalakam" means "blackboard" and "krishnaveni" means "dark/black haired". Are there words that use "kanna" as an adj to connote for dark/blackness in Tamil? BTW, thanks for the very informative posts on Tamil language.

[vamsireddy]

Originally Posted by srinivas

can someone clear this doubt for me ?

how do we say " i miss u " in tamil ? i tried many combinations ... nothing worked out ...
kindly someone answer this...

i'll give it a shot. if this is for a girl "{naan} unnai {romba|neriya} miss panre {babe|chellam|thangam}" (donno tamil word for "miss")

[Arasu]

Originally Posted by satishanu

Unakkaga Engukiraen. Sounds like a good title for a Tamil Movie

'Unnudaiya pirival vaadugiren' also can be used.

[Arasu]

[QUOTE=vamsireddy;52412931]ayyo... seeghramaa nallabadi avutaarani(telugu word) aanDavul vendukondren.

OT:
Your post on colloquial and chentamil reminds me Vivek's comedy scene. Really funny the way the other guy "transel"s into Madras tamil.


I can understand 90% of movie dialogues and read too(thanks to "learn Tamil in 30 days" - finished in 4-hr sitting. First sentence I read was "saapadu tayaar" on a Hotel billboard) but if I attempt to speak in Tamil it sounds more Karunanidhi style than colloquial [/imsQUOTE]

Hi Vamsi, Thank you for your kind words. I am completely normal now and happen to be in India right now and will be back to US next week and will continue to post from next week.

That was a nice clip. I always burst into laughter whenever exaggerated Madras Tamil is used in movies. That was funny how high Tamil was translated into Madras Tamil.

[Arasu]

Tamil has 3 main tenses: Present, Past, Future.

We had earlier seen how through the process of agglutination (adding suffixes), different tenses are expressed.

We also said that 'kiru' and 'kinru' are added to the root verb to indicate present tense.

To repeat an earlier example:

Nee paar+k+kiru+ai = Nee paarkirai -> you see

Nee = you (singular)
paar = see

Here 'kiru' indicates present tense and 'ai' (long a) denotes second person singular.

The root verb 'paar' is called pakuthi
The last ending (ai) is called vikuthi
and the middle part (kiru) is called idainilai. (idai - middle) and (nilai -position)

Therefore, the pakuthi part gives the meaning.
The idainilai indicates the tense.
And the vikuthi denotes the number along with the gender.

In this example the vikuthi 'ai' has to agree with the subject 'Nee', a pronoun in person and number.
In this case 'you' is second person and singular.

If I remember correct, we had earlier tabulated the various pronouns and the correct vikuthi ending for those pronouns.

[Arasu]

Here are a few more examples of present tense forming:

Avan thoongukiran. (He sleeps)

thoongu+kiru+an = thoongukiran

thoongu - sleep (pakuthi)
kiru - present tense marker (idainilai)
an - vikuthi ending indicating third person singular and masculine gender.

Please Note:

In the previous post, we saw the example:

Nee paarkkirai. (Paar+k+kiru+ai)

This previous example is slightly different from the current example in that there is no extra 'k'.

This 'k' is called 'sandhi' and its purpose is to join parts of a word(s).

This extra 'k' is used for some verbs and not used for some other. This has to be learned through observation and usage.

Grammarians have (not the old Tolkappiam or Nannul) of late grouped verbs that require 'k' and call them as strong verbs. Those that donot require a 'k' in the tense formation are called weak verbs. It is not as if these classifications are useful in identifying when to use a 'k' or not anyways.

A few more examples:

Kuzhandhaigal vilaiyadugirarkal.
Kuzhandai - child
kuzhandaigal - children

vilaiyadu+kiru+argal

vilaiyadu - play
kiru - present tense marker
argal - vikuthi terminator indicating plural

[Arasu]

Having learned present tense formation using the root verb, tense marker and the verb terminator to match the subject, let us move on to see how to form future tense.

The concept is similar for future tense formation.

root verb + (future) tense marker + terminator to match with the subject.

Just like the present tense formation where we had the variation of

kiru or k+kiru

the future tense formaiton also has two variations:
future tense marker 'v' or 'pp'.

The rule of thumb is wherever you used 'kiru' for the present tense marker, you use 'v' for the future tense and where you used 'k' + 'kiru', you use 'pp' for the future tense.

Examples: for marker (v)

Avan pesuvan. (pesu+v+an) - He will talk

pesu - root verb - talk
v - future tense marker
an - verb terminator to indicate third person singular masculine gender.

Aval paaduval. (paadu+v+al) - She will sing

paadu - root verb - sing
v - future tense marker
al - verb terminator to indicate third person singular feminine gender.


Examples: for marker (pp)

avan paarppan. (paar+pp+an) - He will see.

paar - see
pp - future tense marker
an - vikuthi indicating third person singular masculine gender.

[Arasu]

Movie Name: Pudhu Pudhu Arthangal
Singer: Balasubrahmanyam SP
Music Director: Ilayaraja
Year: 1989
Director: Balachander K
Actors: Geetha, Ilayaraja, Rahman, Sithara



kaeladi kanmani paadagan sangadhi
nee idhai kaetpadhaal nenjiloar nimmadhi
aaa...
naalmuzhudhum paarvaiyil naan ezhudhum
oar kadhaiyai unakkena naan koora

(kaeladi)

ennaalum thaanae thaen virundhaavadhu
pirarkkaaga naan paadum thiraip paadaldhaan
innaalil thaanae naan isaiththaenammaa
enakkaaga naan paadum mudhal paadaldhaan
kaanal neeraal theeraadha dhaagam
gangai neeraal theerndhadhadi
naan poatta poomaalai manam saerkkavillai
needhaanae enakkaaga madal pooththa mullai


(kaeladi)

neengaadha baaram en nenjoadudhaan
naan thaedum sumaithaangi neeyallavaa
naan vaadum naeram un maarboadudhaan
nee ennaith thaalaattum thaay allavaa
aedhoa aedhoa aanandha raagam
unnaal thaanae undaanaadhu
kalpoana paadhaigal naan poanapoadhu
kaisaerththu needhaanae mey saerththa maadhu

(kaeladi)

[Arasu]

If you listened to any of the Tamil movie songs I have posted in the thread, you may have observed the following with regard to Tamil pronunciation:

- Tamil sentences must glide on gently without interruption. As a general rule, it may be stated that Tamil scarcely admits of accent upon individual syllables.

- Sometimes, particles added to a word are emphasized but it is safe to pronounce all syllables alike.

- Avoid English like emphasis and tone. An even, distinct tone is all that is required. Tamil should be read faster than English.

- In reading Tamil, many of the English stops and pauses are out of place.

[Arasu]

Originally Posted by vamsireddy

ayyo... seeghramaa nallabadi avutaarani(telugu word) aanDavul vendukondren.

OT:
Your post on colloquial and chentamil reminds me Vivek's comedy scene. Really funny the way the other guy "transel"s into Madras tamil.


I can understand 90% of movie dialogues and read too(thanks to "learn Tamil in 30 days" - finished in 4-hr sitting. First sentence I read was "saapadu tayaar" on a Hotel billboard) but if I attempt to speak in Tamil it sounds more Karunanidhi style than colloquial

An observation on this clip:

When Vivek speaks in a high variety Tamil, the folks gathered there seem to understand his speech. But, when the other speaker speaks a high variety Tamil next, they don't follow him and the speech needs translation into Madras Tamil.

The reason is apprently the variety that Vivek (first speaker) employs is the standard high variety Tamilnadu Tamil whereas the other speaker employs high variety Srilankan Tamil. Hence, the illiterate TN crowd doesn't understand him and therefore, the need to "transel" the speech.

Note: Srilanka is refered to as 'Ilangai' in Tamil.

Vamsi, as a Telugu speaker if you observed keenly the Madras Tamil, you will notice the influence of Telugu in the Madras Tamil translation. Words such as 'kosam' (meaning 'for'), 'geli' (meaning 'win') are Telugu influenced.

And there is a heavy dose of English in Madras Tamil even with illiterate folks probably due to the influence of the Britishers and their Madras Presidency.

[Arasu]

[QUOTE=Arasu;52420077]

Originally Posted by vamsireddy

ayyo... seeghramaa nallabadi avutaarani(telugu word) aanDavul vendukondren.

Vamsi,

With your permission, I would like to point out a mistake and correct an error in the Tamil sentence you have formed not to point fingers at you but to correct it as well as highlight a important (historical) incident with a similar background.

'Vendikonden' is the word for 'prayed'. The word 'kondren' (the way you have spelt) means 'killed'.

I don't know if you have heard of a the Tamil epic 'Silappadhikaram'. The whole story is simply because of a simple mispronunciation or misunderstanding on the part of the listener.

The king orders his guards to bring the main protaganist Kovalan, who was accused of stealing the anklet of the queen,t o the court with the word 'kondu vaa' meaning 'bring (him)'.

The guards hear it as 'kondru vaa' meaning 'kill (him)'.


He is killed and his wife Kannagi comes to the court of the Pandyan king and proves that was wrongly executed because she has the other anklet (silambu - silappu). The king dies on the spot for having killed an innocent person and Kannagi goes on to destroy (by fire as she has some divine power being a patni) the entire city of Madurai to avenge the killing of her innocent husband.

[Arasu]

kaeladi kanmani paadagan sangadhi
listen (girl) darling singer news

kael+adi = listen woman
kan + mani = eye iris = to mean darling

nee idhai kaetpadhaal nenjiloar nimmadhi
you this listen because heart one satisfaction

idhu + ai = idhai
idhu - this
ai - the second case (objective case) to make an object out a noun.

kael - ask, listen
kaetpadhu - the act of listening
kaetpadhu + al = kaetpadhal - because you are listening

nenjiloar - nenju +il + oar
nenju - heart
il - in
oar - one

Meaning: There is a satifisfaction in my heart because you are listenting to this.


aaa...
naalmuzhudhum paarvaiyil naan ezhudhum
day whole too sight in me write

naal+muzhudhum - all day long
paravai +il + paarvaiyil - in (my) sight


oar kadhaiyai unakkena naan koora
one story you for I narrate

Meaning: I will narrate a story for you that I wrote all day long with my sight.

(kaeladi)

ennaalum thaanae thaen virundhaavadhu
everyday (emphasis) honey feast become

pirarkkaaga naan paadum thiraip paadaldhaan
others for me sing screen song only (for emphasis)

Meaning: The cine song that I sing for others is feasted everyday.

innaalil thaanae naan isaiththaenammaa
today in only (emphasis) set to music girl

enakkaaga naan paadum mudhal paadaldhaan
me for I sing first song only (for emphasis)

Meaning: Today I set to music the first song that I will sing for myself.

kaanal neeraal theeraadha dhaagam
mirage water by unquenched thirst

gangai neeraal theerndhadhadi
Ganga water by got quenched
Meaning: The thirst that couldn't be satisfied by mirage water got finally quenched by Ganga water.

naan poatta poomaalai manam saerkkavillai
I wore garland fragrance add not

Meaning: I garland I wore didn't add fragrance


needhaanae enakkaaga madal pooththa mullai
you only me for petal blooming flower

Meaning: You are the (mullai) flower that bloomed for me.

(kaeladi)

neengaadha baaram en nenjoadudhaan
unremovable weight my heart with only

naan thaedum sumaithaangi neeyallavaa
I searching load bearer you isn't it?

naan vaadum naeram un maarboadudhaan
I withering time your chest with only


nee ennaith thaalaattum thaay allavaa
you me lullaby saying mother isn't it?


aedhoa aedhoa aanandha raagam
some some happy melody

unnaal thaanae undaanaadhu
you because only happened

kaalpoana paadhaigal naan poanapoadhu
leg went paths I went

kaisaerththu needhaanae mey saerththa maadhu
hands joined you only body joined woman.

(kaeladi)