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Old October 9th, 2010, 07:18 PM   #181
parcdesprinces
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Originally Posted by Index_LT View Post
It seems that part near Notre Dame de Paris is untouched. Would be interesting to see photos.
Apparently, you didn't read the previous posts...( ).... !
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Old October 10th, 2010, 01:20 AM   #182
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Apparently, you didn't read the previous posts...( ).... !
Now I got it. I just don't know where which rue is. Je ne suis pas parisien.
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Old October 10th, 2010, 04:23 AM   #183
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...

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Old October 19th, 2010, 02:24 AM   #184
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Plus ca change.........!

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Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
I couldn't agree more !
Thank you!
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P.S. Referring to your previous post about Parisians...well, I'm a "real Parisian" (I was born and raised here),
That in itself surely makes you something of a rarity parcdesprinces, ....by far the largest proportion of people professing to be "Parisians" were born, and raised OUTSIDE Paris, ...making them migrants, or certainly nouveau arrivals?
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and I've noticed an interesting fact:
The "new Parisians" (especially when they are originated from insignificant French boring provincial towns) want to change Paris into what they had dreamed about "big cities",
If their original dream was for a "big city" with all that image may conjure up in their provincial arriviste mindset, there are surely quite a few cities, even in Europe that now fulfil the multiple high rise, neon lights and "Coca-Cola-Culture" goal they seek? Why chose Paris in the first place if it's not to your taste?
I tend to adapt to the city, .....NOT expect it to change for me. Indeed, I don't want it to, as I seek exactly what it has to offer.
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and in addition of that, they obviously want to see their hometown's reflection on the mirror='Bring back the medieval Paris'.....
Just don't ask them to actually LIVE in it. I somehow think they would miss modern conveniences, ...and if they suggest sticking "mock-medieval" facades on otherwise 21stC buildings, then I believe Paris-Disney isn't all that far away.
Is it not a ridiculous fact of the human condition? They move to escape a particular area, then wish to transform where they have chosen to live into some sort of a mock "replica" of their original place of origin, ....conveniently forgetting their very reasons for moving in the first place?
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BTW, where are you from ?
I am Australian by birth.

Last edited by LeStryge; October 19th, 2010 at 09:03 AM.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 02:58 AM   #185
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Living in glass houses.....

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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Are you saying that today we build building like we did in the 1960's 1970's.
Come on the skyscrapers of today are far more beautiful, integrated, etc than before.
It would be better than the existing ugly mall of Montparnasse.
And "integrated" with what exactly? Surely not the rest of existing Paris by some doubtful expedient of somehow sticking on a few Second Empire culicues to the glass facade?
Sadly, despite all the so-called advances, construction and cost structures seem to really only come up with variations on a theme of concrete, glass and steel; .....in reality, the ubiquitous "glass box". Sure it may have a few tricky bits superficially applied which the devotees may oh-and-ah over, but basically, you've seen it all before. Think Tour Montparnasse with stuck-on frou-frou.
Look around at the "International Style", which despite the passing of time is still very much with us .....if it's not brutal and minimalist, it's chi-chi and tricksy. (I am very open to hearing some examples you find "far more beautiful" BTW).
The Pompidou Centre, despite having been hailed as a major statement of it's time, has now deteriorated into something resembling a sad old left-over from a trade fair that has outlived it's time, ...unlike the Eiffel Tower, I might add. Take a really close look at Pompidou as it stands at present. It's exterior is a shambles of peeling paint and ugly degrading concrete, ...and a nightmare of maintenance to boot, having all it's guts on the outside of course! (Bright idea huh? There are very good reasons technical services are usually concealed, weather and pigeons being only two of them! But one simply HAS to be "controversial", n'est-ce pas?!)
Besides, Paris within the peripherique is to all intents and purposes, now full.
Build what you like outside, I have no problems with that at all. They certainly have in La Defense. You want to live in a modern city? Doesn't come any more modern than there, ...and it's not very far to commute to Paris should you so wish.
Should you choose to inhabit a modern sky-scraper, do please remember a very important piece of advice: ...people who live in glass houses.......should lower the blinds (store) before the trousers!

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Old October 19th, 2010, 04:49 AM   #186
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Thank you!

That in itself surely makes you something of a rarity parcdesprinces, ....by far the largest proportion of so-called "Parisians" were born, and raised OUTSIDE Paris
I meant City of Paris !!
And as far I know, I'm/we are far from need any special Greenpeace protection





About the thread, OK I wasn't raised in an Haussmann building (besides, just like almost all of my Parisian friends)..but in a Belle Époque building...


This one :

(built in 1912=nothing to do with Haussmann/Second Empire and stuff, unlike some Parisians want to believe)



P.S. The Rarity Club of Paris is still alive and says hello !!

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Old October 19th, 2010, 09:01 AM   #187
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Vous avez de la chance!

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I meant City of Paris !!
And as far I know, I'm/we are far from need any special Greenpeace protection
Noted of course, .....and I'll be sure to tell all my New Zealand friends.....vous pouvez compter sur moi!
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Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
About the thread, OK I wasn't raised in an Haussmann building (besides, just like almost all of my Parisian friends)..but in a Belle Époque building...
And very nice it is too! Je pense que vous avez de la chance! As I said, so many people claim to be "Parisians", ...it sounds so much more chic of course, ....but in truth the largest numbers of the population of the city are migrants from provincial France.
I have long wanted to visit one of those high domed salons that sit atop the leading edge of the roof on such buildings as yours. Paris has lots of them, but I've yet to meet anyone who lives in one. Are the ceilings domed on the interior too? If so, there must be some spectacular rooms to see.
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Originally Posted by parcdesprinces View Post
P.S. The Rarity Club of Paris is still alive and says hello !!
Et bonjour a vous aussi Monsieur Rarity! Je suis enchante de faire votre connaisance bien sur!

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Old October 20th, 2010, 12:10 AM   #188
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One thing that strikes me from this conversation about ile de la cite is that the narrow streets just north of Notre Dame are the deadest on the whole island. Shouldnt they be the most vibrant according to the logic behind the idea of reintroducing the old street grid?
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Old October 20th, 2010, 02:17 AM   #189
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One thing that strikes me from this conversation about ile de la cite is that the narrow streets just north of Notre Dame are the deadest on the whole island. Shouldnt they be the most vibrant according to the logic behind the idea of reintroducing the old street grid?
I certainly know what you mean joamox,......but apart from Rue de Cloitre Notre-Dame, which is used as the very lengthy queue for those tourists (and art lovers!) intending to visit "my" statue atop Notre Dame, (damn that cage!)...the other streets suffer from being off the tourist trail. (If indeed that could be said to be suffering!)
The horrendous stretch of souvenir overkill that is Rue d'Arcole seems to draw the masses after they've "done" Notre Dame, ...(and tried to avoid the clutches of those damn faux-gypsies out the front!)
It's a great pity the streets you refer to are not better utilised, but I think they are probably regarded as poor locations by any businesses wishing to attract passing trade. They do indeed tend to be quiet as you mention.
Personally though, I think the best view of Notre Dame is from the "back", and while Quai aux Fleurs can provide a pleasant respite from the crowds, while still enjoying the Seine, the small Square Jean XXIII behind Notre Dame has spectacular views of the cathedral, ...and some of the best roses to be seen in Paris too.
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Old October 20th, 2010, 04:24 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by joamox View Post
One thing that strikes me from this conversation about ile de la cite is that the narrow streets just north of Notre Dame are the deadest on the whole island. Shouldnt they be the most vibrant according to the logic behind the idea of reintroducing the old street grid?
Because these streets don't have shop, if we build small pedestrian streets with shops, restaurants, cafés... in the Ile de La Cité, I am sure that these would be very lively.
It could be a great link between Saint Michel and Chatelet.
Ile de la Cité of today is nothing more than an admistrative boring island with some tourists trap shops.


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Originally Posted by LeStryge View Post
And "integrated" with what exactly? Surely not the rest of existing Paris by some doubtful expedient of somehow sticking on a few Second Empire culicues to the glass facade?
Sadly, despite all the so-called advances, construction and cost structures seem to really only come up with variations on a theme of concrete, glass and steel; .....in reality, the ubiquitous "glass box". Sure it may have a few tricky bits superficially applied which the devotees may oh-and-ah over, but basically, you've seen it all before. Think Tour Montparnasse with stuck-on frou-frou.
Look around at the "International Style", which despite the passing of time is still very much with us .....if it's not brutal and minimalist, it's chi-chi and tricksy. (I am very open to hearing some examples you find "far more beautiful" BTW).
The Pompidou Centre, despite having been hailed as a major statement of it's time, has now deteriorated into something resembling a sad old left-over from a trade fair that has outlived it's time, ...unlike the Eiffel Tower, I might add. Take a really close look at Pompidou as it stands at present. It's exterior is a shambles of peeling paint and ugly degrading concrete, ...and a nightmare of maintenance to boot, having all it's guts on the outside of course! (Bright idea huh? There are very good reasons technical services are usually concealed, weather and pigeons being only two of them! But one simply HAS to be "controversial", n'est-ce pas?!)
Besides, Paris within the peripherique is to all intents and purposes, now full.
Build what you like outside, I have no problems with that at all. They certainly have in La Defense. You want to live in a modern city? Doesn't come any more modern than there, ...and it's not very far to commute to Paris should you so wish.
Should you choose to inhabit a modern sky-scraper, do please remember a very important piece of advice: ...people who live in glass houses.......should lower the blinds (store) before the trousers!
Are you saying that inner Paris should become a museum for tourist and a ghetto for the happy few who have the chance and the money to live here ? Because this would be the result of an inner Paris which refuse to evolve.

Central Tokyo, Manhattan are also full but this does not prevent them from constructing new buildings.

Do you know the number of office building that are outdated ?
Do you know the number of people who wait for a social housing ? Inner Paris doesn't even respect the law in this matter, it should have 20% of social housing even more due at the housing price.

What do you want putting the poor people who wiat a social housing in suburbs for transforming even more inner Paris into a gated community for wealthy people ?
Do you want to build million m² of office in districts far from any transportation system.
This would mean less jobs inside the inner city and so transforming it even more into a gated community

Paris is a city it need to evolve, the suburbs but also the center or we will kill the city.
Venise is the worse exemple for Paris.

PS: The Centre Georges Pompidou is 33 years old, it is not a new building, so please don't use it as an exemple.
I think that new modern skyscrapers in Montparnasse would be far better than the actual ugly 70's mall.
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Old October 20th, 2010, 08:33 AM   #191
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Chacun son gout.....

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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Because these streets don't have shop, if we build small pedestrian streets with shops, restaurants, cafés... in the Ile de La Cité, I am sure that these would be very lively. Ile de la Cité of today is nothing more than an admistrative boring island with some tourists trap shops.
Yes, of course, ...but aren't you then running the danger of just merely setting up even more tourist traps on the Ile de la Cite?
besides, while ever the sublime Sainte Chapelle exists on the Isle, (even to the exclusion of everything else), I am never going to call it "boring"....
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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Are you saying that inner Paris should become a museum for tourist and a ghetto for the happy few who have the chance and the money to live here ? Because this would be the result of an inner Paris which refuse to evolve.
I truly think your description of the Ile de la Cite as a "ghetto" is somewhat extreme. Why does it specifically have to evolve as some sort of a mass housing project?
Remember, this small island is the oldest settled part of Paris and therefore holds very significant historical value. Like it or not, ...it IS therefore a museum by it's very nature. There's surely nothing wrong with museums, particularly one so interesting, ...and accessible.
There are very few cities in the world these days prepared to demolish what remains of their history. FAR too much has been lost to unrestrained development in the past, ...or war already.
So it's expensive to live there you mention?
Yes undoubtedly, if you choose to live in any historical centre you would be more than naive to expect a bargain. Try buying a place overlooking Central Park in New York, ...or something just a little larger than a very small shoe box anywhere near central Tokyo!
It may be very egalitarian, but I think it fairly unreasonable to be expecting low-cost housing for the poor to be placed in such a premium position. I know there are people who hold no value for the historical aspects, .....and believe that development must progress unhindered as some sort of celebration of Man's progress.
However Paris itself, within the Periferique, is a relatively small area when compared with London, New York or even Tokyo. Tiny really, ....are we to "develop" the hell out of it merely to house the underprivileged out of some misplaced altruistic urge, or somesuch? It's not exactly as though every other site, even nearby, was already taken or built out.
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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Central Tokyo, Manhattan are also full but this does not prevent them from constructing new buildings.
Granted, ....and just exactly what are they demolishing to do so? Primarily 20th century "modern" ugly buildings, now considered expendable, ...mainly due to their unattractive appearance and poor condition.
I can't speak for Tokyo, but just try demolishing anything at all with historical value in New York, ...which BTW is only just over TWO HUNDRED years old. (Compare that to Paris!)
You'll meet VERY firm resistance indeed!
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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Do you know the number of office building that are outdated ?
What's wrong with La Defense, etc.? Does office space HAVE to be on the Ile de la Cite? Why? Paris is a small city with EXCELLENT public transport.
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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Do you know the number of people who wait for a social housing ? Inner Paris doesn't even respect the law in this matter, it should have 20% of social housing even more due at the housing price.
Now I may be alone in this thinking, but should I ever become dependent on social housing, I assure you I will NOT expect, nor need or even want it to be situated right smack bang in the very most expensive part of town. Those very people who need social housing are also the same ones unable to afford to do their necessary shopping in those parts of town. You want them to commute to cheaper areas to buy groceries, and then back? There's more to consider with social housing than just plonking it down in the ritzyiest part of town and wondering why the residents are then unhappy and unable to cope.
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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
What do you want putting the poor people who wiat a social housing in suburbs for transforming even more inner Paris into a gated community for wealthy people ?
Oh come now, ...it's hardly "gated" as you claim, .....take a look at the numbers who now have access.
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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Do you want to build million m² of office in districts far from any transportation system.
Have you actually visited Paris? It has one of the most excellent public transport systems of any "historic" city.
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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Paris is a city it need to evolve, the suburbs but also the center or we will kill the city.
And I say develop it as you seem to mean, and you will assure it's death. It will become just like any other town in Europe re-built after the war. Okay in some respects, but not exactly anything special. Paris is one of the world's treasures, ..and certainly a most livable city as it stands now. And I know because I've lived here.
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Venise is the worse exemple for Paris.
I don't think Venice is the example, .....it's the petro-chemical factory that was allowed to surround it. And just what is wrong with preserving a city as small as Venice? Does everybody have to, ..or even want to live in the very centre of it? I have no desire to live in the centre of the Louvre, ...I.M Pei or not! We preserve paintings and sculptures in museums and no one complains or wants them demolished, but it is virtually impossible to show architecture in a museum. How is the world, or the lives of the underprivileged you seem so concerned about somehow diminished by the preservation of a few small areas on this huge planet?
I probably cannot afford to buy a large house in central Paris, as much as I would love to do so, ...and there's more than a few I covert! However this does NOT mean I want such houses demolished and replaced with cheap accommodation I could afford AT ALL.
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PS: The Centre Georges Pompidou is 33 years old, it is not a new building, so please don't use it as an exemple.
Just 33 years old, eh? How positively ANCIENT! Many of us are older than that!
Construction on Notre Dame is purported to have begun in 1163, which to my calculations, makes it around 847 years old. Now please tell me which building is "new"????
Pompidou Centre has become an eyesore in only 33 years. Have you actually been up close and looked at it lately? Still I suppose that's quite a while really. Tour Montparnasse managed to achieve the very same status at the INSTANT of completion!
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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
I think that new modern skyscrapers in Montparnasse would be far better than the actual ugly 70's mall.
You are more than entitled to your opinion of course Minato ku.; and I value that. I am very sure there are people for whom a modern skyscraper, ...however ubiquitous or uniform, or lacklustre in design says everything about their hopes and dreams for the future of mankind.

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Old October 20th, 2010, 05:28 PM   #192
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It may be very egalitarian, but I think it fairly unreasonable to be expecting low-cost housing for the poor to be placed in such a premium position. I know there are people who hold no value for the historical aspects, .....and believe that development must progress unhindered as some sort of celebration of Man's progress.
Of course poor and non white people have not right to live here
Also add to this the middle class you cannot afford to live here, also add the students... all the average people.


Quote:
However Paris itself, within the Periferique, is a relatively small area when compared with London, New York or even Tokyo. Tiny really, ....are we to "develop" the hell out of it merely to house the underprivileged out of some misplaced altruistic urge, or somesuch? It's not exactly as though every other site, even nearby, was already taken or built out.
Of course it better to have council estate ghettoes in suburbs than poor in the center ?

Quote:
Granted, ....and just exactly what are they demolishing to do so? Primarily 20th century "modern" ugly buildings, now considered expendable, ...mainly due to their unattractive appearance and poor condition.
I can't speak for Tokyo, but just try demolishing anything at all with historical value in New York, ...which BTW is only just over TWO HUNDRED years old. (Compare that to Paris!)
You'll meet VERY firm resistance indeed!
Of course this would meat resistance but I don't care of this, for any important things there are always resistance.
The majority of people where agaisnt the train, so was it a bad idea to built it ? No of course it wasn't

If we only heard the conservative voices, we would never develop and we would still live in straw house.

Quote:
What's wrong with La Defense, etc.? Does office space HAVE to be on the Ile de la Cite? Why? Paris is a small city with EXCELLENT public transport.
I didn't speak of speciafically la Ile de la City but Central Paris.
Why many jobs need to be the center of the city, you just answered to your question it is because it has an exellent public transport and Paris.

It is why it needs jobs, many affordable housings.
If Paris proper was not the center of 12 million metropolis, the issues would not be the same.


Quote:
Now I may be alone in this thinking, but should I ever become dependent on social housing, I assure you I will NOT expect, nor need or even want it to be situated right smack bang in the very most expensive part of town. Those very people who need social housing are also the same ones unable to afford to do their necessary shopping in those parts of town.
You want them to commute to cheaper areas to buy groceries, and then back? There's more to consider with social housing than just plonking it down in the ritzyiest part of town and wondering why the residents are then unhappy and unable to cope.
Please there are low cost supermarket everywhere in the inner city, even in the 6th, 7th, 16th arrondissement.
If you speak of other shop, those people already need to commute to find a single shop most of time.
Living in inner Paris will improve their live more than anything.

Many district of Paris are boring and almost dead because too wealthy, more social diversity will bring more life.

If some people don't want social diversity, they can leave the center and live in a gated community far in suburbs but they have no right to aggravate the life of millions inhabitants by transforming the center into a ghetto for rich.

Quote:
Oh come now, ...it's hardly "gated" as you claim, .....take a look at the numbers who now have access.
If some people cannot live inside it because they don't fit to some criteras then it is a ghetto.

Quote:
Have you actually visited Paris? It has one of the most excellent public transport systems of any "historic" city.
That's why it coundn't become a museum or it will worsening the life of million of people who don't live inside the peripherique but you don't care of it. Right ?
And don't ask me if I ever visited Paris, look at where is my location Montrouge... I live in southern inner suburbs.

I find that many school in central Paris are very white, whiter than the school where I grow up in a little city of Central France.

Quote:
And I say develop it as you seem to mean, and you will assure it's death. It will become just like any other town in Europe re-built after the war. Okay in some respects, but not exactly anything special. Paris is one of the world's treasures, ..and certainly a most livable city as it stands now. And I know because I've lived here.
I don't speak of destroying everything, of course you need some preservation but not every building are monument.
Yeah Paris is a livable city when you are lucky and have enouth money to live in inner city.
When you are not the life is a bit more difficult.

But anyway it is the over protection of Paris who created ghetto in suburbs, it is the lack of social housing in Paris who created ghetto in suburbs... there are no other way to change the situation that by integrate the suburbs to inner Paris and the oposite.
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Old October 20th, 2010, 06:37 PM   #193
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Lots of here.


Get back to topic (which is medieval Paris btw) or I'll have to close the thread for a while, you can continue on Citytalk with your general discussion. This one's supposed to be about architectural matters.
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Old October 21st, 2010, 05:32 AM   #194
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Pardonez moi, ....s'il vous plait?

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This one's supposed to be about architectural matters.
Profound and sincere apologies to erbse and all contributors here of course, ...I was under the obviously mistaken delusion that architecture was what I was discussing.
Perhaps it's because I came late to the topic but I assumed, (always a dangerous mistake I will admit), ....that the replacement of medieval buildings not only by Haussmann, but by later architectural projects such as towers within Paris would definitely come under this topic.
I'm also somewhat "surprised" that you find our expressed personal opinions "lots of blah blah" as you so put it above. If they were "off topic" I do understand that you as appointed moderator have a duty to redirect, ...but "blah blah"?
Anyway, again Moderator ....sorry if I misunderstood the subject of this forum. It was never my intention to divert the discussion from your above stated subject. There's certainly no need to close the topic on my account. I have no axe to grind. I'll leave it to others for their opinions and theories.

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Old October 22nd, 2010, 04:33 PM   #195
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Lots of here.


Not surprised to see this on the world forum as the same arguments were spun like broken records in the french forum a while back for days on end.

Keep a tight lid on this Erbse

(of course feel free to delete this afterwards as it is also off topic).
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Old October 25th, 2010, 11:24 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by LeStryge View Post
The Pompidou Centre, despite having been hailed as a major statement of it's time, has now deteriorated into something resembling a sad old left-over from a trade fair that has outlived it's time
What a prejudiced and misinformed comment! How to discredit oneself in just one sentence.
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Originally Posted by LeStryge View Post
Besides, Paris within the peripherique is to all intents and purposes, now full.
Full of conservationsnists and bourgeois (be they of the old or new bobo sort) who want nothing to ever change while the banlieues are burning, that's for sure. That mindset is destroying Europe.
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Build what you like outside, I have no problems with that at all.
Thanks for your comments from far-away Australia, but Paris is still our city and so we'll do what we see fit, even if it means disappointing the tourists and the self-appointed sermonizers.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 11:30 PM   #197
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One thing that strikes me from this conversation about ile de la cite is that the narrow streets just north of Notre Dame are the deadest on the whole island.
Are you joking? Minato Ku, Metropolitan and myself were actually there around midnight 2 weeks ago, and it was the most lively part of the island along with the square in front of Notre Dame, thanks to the few restaurants and bars that are there. The rest of the island is dead at night, which is not surprising considering that it's just administrative offices.
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Old October 26th, 2010, 12:18 AM   #198
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...sans doubt.

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Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
What a prejudiced and misinformed comment! How to discredit oneself in just one sentence.
Oh pardonez-moi! Did I just happen to kick your "sacred cow" firmly in the ribs?
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Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Thanks for your comments from far-away Australia, but Paris is still our city and so we'll do what we see fit, even if it means disappointing the tourists and the self-appointed sermonizers.
Ah! Je comprend, ...enfin!
If your incredibly patronising statement above represented the true feeling here in this forum, then perhaps to save unwelcome "foreigners" such as myself from embarrassment, the moderator might consider writing a small heading warning that any opinions or contributions are restricted to those permanently residing INSIDE the peripherique?
However, there's no historical precedent. I don't seem to recall the Parisians having any objections at all when a small foreigner from CORSICA saw fit to change THEIR city HIS way some time back.
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Paris is still our city and so we'll do what we see fit,
...and of course that would be the Royal "we"; ..no doubt?
And there was I trying SO very hard to avoid the stereotypes.....mais....

Last edited by LeStryge; October 26th, 2010 at 07:30 AM.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 04:04 PM   #199
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and I'll be sure to tell all my New Zealand friends.....vous pouvez compter sur moi!
Why ??? As far I know, France had nothing to do with the Rainbow Warrior accident.. Besides, that's what our independent media told us !!

(this is for my dear AllBlacks)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

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Originally Posted by LeStryge View Post
but in truth the largest numbers of the population of the city are migrants from provincial France.
I tried to find some detailed data (maybe Brisavoine could help us on this one), but all I know is that 25-30% of Parisians were born and raised here...
This number doesn't include the parisians who were born outside Paris (just like some of my old Parisian friends, or also just like my father for example), but were raised in Paris.

Anyway, I have to admit that most of 'ethnically French' Parisians have their roots in provincial France (myself included) !
Because 1 parisian by birth out of 8 has one parisian parent, and only 1 out of 20 has his both parents who were born in Paris.....

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Originally Posted by LeStryge View Post
I have long wanted to visit one of those high domed salons that sit atop the leading edge of the roof on such buildings as yours. Paris has lots of them, but I've yet to meet anyone who lives in one. Are the ceilings domed on the interior too? If so, there must be some spectacular rooms to see.
Well, actually the last floor under the roof is (in 99,9% of cases in this kind of buildings):
The floor of maid's rooms. What we call in French "chambres de bonnes" (maid(s) or not, it's a generic term=a Haussmann heritage per se) .. So, the rooms are far from being spectacular, despite the domed ceiling for some of them.

One of the two maid's rooms "attached" to the apartment of my parents (these rooms are generally sold/bought with the apartments), is located under the rotunda (half of the rotunda)...and..except the view.. this room has nothing special (15m2), and as far I remember my parents have always let these two rooms to students, because that kind of small studio apartments are cheap.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 05:07 PM   #200
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Central Tokyo, Manhattan are also full but this does not prevent them from constructing new buildings.
The same in Paris !
In case you didn't notice, the overwhelming majority of Paris buildings were built during the 20th century, including a large part built from WWII till nowadays ! *
And BTW, about that, I recommend you the excellent pics of that thread :
PARIS...my city

Oh, silly me ! Those are your pics !

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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Do you know the number of people who wait for a social housing ? Inner Paris doesn't even respect the law in this matter, it should have 20% of social housing even more due at the housing price.
Do you know that Paris is far from being the worst example on that matter (among the 801 municipalities concerned by this law, which includes numerous municipalities around the City of Paris) ?

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What do you want putting the poor people who wiat a social housing in suburbs for transforming even more inner Paris into a gated community for wealthy people ?
A bit of exaggeration in you question, don't you think ?

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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Of course poor and non white people have not right to live here
Cliché !

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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Of course it better to have council estate ghettoes in suburbs than poor in the center ?
Cliché !


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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
If we only heard the conservative voices, we would never develop and we would still live in straw house.
Extreme argument !

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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
Many district of Paris are boring and almost dead because too wealthy, more social diversity will bring more life.
Lack of knowledge of these famous "boring districts" !*


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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
If some people don't want social diversity, they can leave the center and live in a gated community far in suburbs but they have no right to aggravate the life of millions inhabitants by transforming the center into a ghetto for rich.
Exaggeration !


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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
I find that many school in central Paris are very white, whiter than the school where I grow up in a little city of Central France.
Cliché ! (and btw, how many schools do you know in Paris ???)

For example, my elementary & grammar school was a private Catholic one, in the very posh XVIe arr. (very elitist school, but still open to everyone, whatever their religion or skin color, and not that expensive by Anglo-saxon standards of private schools for example) ! Then the high-school where I studied was a public one (very elitist too, just like most of large/famous public high-schools in Paris, which are also the best ones in France AFAIK), but it remained and remains opened to everyone who lives in the area and around.. (that includes many dispensations : the result is there were even some students from Seine-St-Denis - not to mention Hauts-de-Seine - in my high-school in the XVIe arr., and it was/is fine like that=social diversity)

Anyway, sometimes I wonder if your problem really is Paris and its urban plan , but the wealthy/upper class people ???

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Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
it is the over protection of Paris who created ghetto in suburbs, it is the lack of social housing in Paris who created ghetto in suburbs... there are no other way to change the situation that by integrate the suburbs to inner Paris and the oposite.
A bit of exaggeration again , but I admit this is certainly one of the reasons why, but fortunately your (socialist)solutions or utopic visions (e.g. Ile de la Cité) are not going to become reality !


---


* Here is an example of the so called "boring districts", which according to you "lacks new constructions":

Rue d'Auteuil XVIe arr.
(in the district where I was raised, and located near where I live now)
This street is among the oldest ones in Paris and remained unchanged (its layout) since at least the early Renaissance. Besides, this street (Formerly "Grand-Rue": main street/high street) is famous because it kept its "village/provincial atmosphere" (this district is part of Paris only since 150 years, and before it was a village known for the country houses/secondary residences of the aristocratic and/or wealthy Parisians)
























As you can see, there are many shops (mostly for food), and buildings or "hôtels Particuliers" from the XVIth, XVIIth, XVIIIth centuries, and also pre-Haussmann buildings, Haussmann buildings, post-Haussmann buildings (Belle Époque), Art-Déco, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s and 1990s buildings....

As a matter of fact, rue d'Auteuil is exactly what Paris should be, according to your point , I mean it's a medieval street which has changed following the centuries, but without any urban planning (except at the Rue Michel-Ange/Rue la Fontaine corner).

BTW, may I suggest you (during your walks) to go there and in the area around ?
IMHO, you could be pleasantly surprised (especially in terms of architecture diversity )

'Cause this is the same in many many streets of Auteuil. For example I live in a building built in the late 50s/early 60s, and in my street there are buildings and houses from all major architecture periods since the Second Empire (including 2000s: in front of my apartment; also many entre-deux-guerres buildings.. I admit).

Last edited by parcdesprinces; October 29th, 2010 at 11:46 PM.
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