TRANSPORT | Metrolink - Future Phases & Fantasy Extensions

[Joseph_Locke]

Originally Posted by Motortownman

But what most of you has forgotten is the the services that were to use the PiccVic aren't metrolink lines now even, except for the Bury line. The southside electric services coming from Crewe, Stockport, Airport etc would have gone through some as far as Victoria, but who says then that Rochdale wouldn't have soon have joined up (via Moston). It would have meant that 25k would have already extended to Bolton and Bury and Rochdale would have possibly been electrified at a later date. That would have cleared the way for the other services to have been improved. We would have had a true S bahn in the way that Glasgow now has. Nobody ever realises that Glasgow has 2 crossrails, with one of the routes now continuing to Edinburgh via Bathgate.

The only junctions in Manchester that would (in the opinion of a great many industry Hobbits, and assuming you build the Ordsall Chord to fix the Ardwick problem) are Windsor Bridge North and South, and Ordsall Lane Junctions.

Picc - Vicc doesn't solve these, as the problem is crossing Wigans over with Boltons (through Crescent) and crossing Boltons over the Chat Moss at Ordsall Lane.

What would work is tunnelling the Bolton Lines under Windsor Bridge North, Salford Crescent, Windsor Bridge South and Ordsall Lane Junction, but then you've got to get back up to Oxford Road to get to the Airport (unless you just carry on to the Slade Lane area).

[Joseph_Locke]

Originally Posted by scientist12

Ok, I have lost the plot and spent the morning taking inspiration from the worst aspect of the Picc - Vicc scheme :

This great scheme will finally connect the UMIST and now Univeristy buildings properly to the transport network and allow workers for Corridor Manchester to easily access it from Piccadilly and workers / inhabitants of Oxford Rd corridor to easily access Piccadilly station with there heavy suit cases. Students can also proceed directly from their lectures to the pub.

Sadly, this idea was discounted at GRIP 2 as part of the Northern Hub (yes, honestly). It only got close to being a good idea if you shut either Oxford Road or 13 & 14 at Piccadilly; otherwise you are providing a travellator which duplicates a (proposed) metro frequency train service.

[scientist12]

Originally Posted by Joseph_Locke

Sadly, this idea was discounted at GRIP 2 as part of the Northern Hub (yes, honestly). It only got close to being a good idea if you shut either Oxford Road or 13 & 14 at Piccadilly; otherwise you are providing a travellator which duplicates a (proposed) metro frequency train service.

But it would be free, whereas if you charge, people might not use it (although that can be fixed with a zone ticket for all modes of transport / oyster card) and also the metro presumably wouldn't stop halfway along which is where quite a lot of people might be going from and to. What killed the idea for me would be the possibility of it becoming in some way an unofficial shelter for the homeless or stained with vomit or urine!

[iheartthenew]

Reminds me of 'walkways in the sky' - bad connotations of what they had in Hulme and Liverpool city centre

[DiscoSteve]

Originally Posted by iheartthenew

Reminds me of 'walkways in the sky' - bad connotations of what they had in Hulme and Liverpool city centre

Otherwise known as Muggers Alleys In The Sky

[heatonparkincakes]

Ah I think I did some speculation about how the travelators would have impacted on 80s youth culture on the fantasy thread in exchange square.

It would have been a cat walk for youthful fashionistas, a battle ground for youthful scally vermin and a celebratory parade of Youthful hormonal excess.

I vaguely re call the much derided and unloved underground market off Market Street and imagine that moving along below Whitworth Street to the sound of a screeching busker trotting out Beatles tunes and the scent of urine to accompany it.

And the middle aged dudes would blithely pass by without noticing a thing, rushing from home to work, work to home.

Whatever decade it is.

[LNGCats]

Think about the opportunity for crime on a sparsely populated underground stop in Manchester at midnight on a Tuesday.

If those vanity project lovers got there way there would be loads of crime opportunity for the pick pockets of Manchester on our own, deserted, underground trains.

[andysimo123]

Blah blah don't build it because of possible crime. What aload of bollocks.

[heatonparkincakes]

Crime no problem.

CCTV, G4 loons, hi vis Stasi, even sniffer dogs and metal detectors if you want. All of which have been employed on UK train stations recently.

But my main gripe, would be the inevitable gut wrenching tang of "elephant" Pish.

It's a world never realized, but possibly imaginable.

I can see it now.

It's 1988, the young Simo is passing Eastern Bloc records on Oldham Street and he curiously
spies a poster in the window.

"INSPIRAL CARPETS

TRAVELATOR SURFING EP

12' 7" cassette."

[LNGCats]

The crime may be no higher.

Importantly the perception of crime would be though.

See Whitecity / MediaCity.

[heatonparkincakes]

No worry Andy, travelators have as much chance of being built now as say Jrb being elected to the FCU board.

Anyone who has to endure the monthly refusnik of the escalator at Bury interchange will think, "erm these moving stairways are NOT reliable."

For the artistic record, Jeff Noon- our resident Mancunian cyber punk writer - extensively wrote about surface travelators existing in a near future dystopic Manchester.

[LNGCats]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

Anyone who has to endure the monthly refusnik of the escalator at Bury interchange will think, "erm these moving stairways are NOT reliable."

.

An issue often forgetten by the underground promoters.

[Motortownman]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Think about the opportunity for crime on a sparsely populated underground stop in Manchester at midnight on a Tuesday.

If those vanity project lovers got there way there would be loads of crime opportunity for the pick pockets of Manchester on our own, deserted, underground trains.

Hhahah thats a good one coming from you Who was it that promoted it and got it approved and funded....? ahhhhh yes, the experts that you have blind faith in.... GMPTA. Remember experts have access to all kinds of knowledge and information that none of us amateurs on here could possibly ever have so it's natural they wouldn't make any miscalculations or mistakes.(Think congestion charge) But then it was cancelled purely because cuts were to be made, not on it's merit.

[LNGCats]

I never said no one makes mistakes (read the link in my signature), rather us lot of amatures on here are in the bottom quartile, thinking we know it all but in reality we know bugger all, where as the experts are in the top quartile and probably under estimate their knowledge, yet make many fewer errors than would be expected given their expectations of their knowledge.

Seriously, the link in my signature is made for you. Take a read. It will be very enlightening if you understand it at all.

[Motortownman]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

I never said no one makes mistakes (read the link in my signature), rather us lot of amatures on here are in the bottom quartile, thinking we know it all but in reality we know bugger all, where as the experts are in the top quartile and probably under estimate their knowledge, yet make many fewer errors than would be expected given their expectations of their knowledge.

.

Of course, of course, sincerest apologies... bows down.

But then I never said Picc Vic was a mistake. Or that it was the correct solution... Only what might have been.

[LNGCats]

You have not read the link have you.

it really does sum up almost all of your posts that relate to decisions made by those with more information on the matter than you do.

Read all 14 pages.

Look at the graphs.

See what it says about 'experts' and the unknowledgable.

The diagram on the forth page sums you up, you really are on the left hand side of that graph.

[Motortownman]

night night yawns... you can have the last say.....

[LNGCats]

Take a print out of the report on my link.

It will be the most enlightening article you have ever read.

It will be tough reading, it will be all about you (it's also all about me), but it explains why you make the posts you do.

[heatonparkincakes]

Chill brothers, it's saturday night and it's spring time.

No **** it Pic Vic would have failed me.

I finish work, I walk down the steps to the interchange at Bury.

A dozen Blackberrys ping pong, a scally who cant read the "No Smoking" sign lights up, I instantly click my mp3 on to something loud and metallic.

It's then 10 trams per hour on Metrolink.

Or

4 third rail tube trains per hour on Pic Vic.

Guess what is better.

[Motortownman]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

No **** it Pic Vic would have failed me.

I finish work, I walk down the steps to the interchange at Bury.

A dozen Blackberrys ping pong, a scally who cant read the "No Smoking" sign lights up, I instantly click my mp3 on to something loud and metallic.

It's then 10 trams per hour on Metrolink.

Or

4 third rail tube trains per hour on Pic Vic.

Guess what is better.

Was it supposed to be third rail? Dual voltage, possibly as the trains were to come from the south? The trains would possibly have been similar to Liverpool's then as I heard they are capable of being overhead and third rail, but at present no pantograph. So what would have happened to the link to Bolton from was it Radcliffe? Would that have been third rail too?