TRANSPORT | Metrolink - Future Phases & Fantasy Extensions

[Irish Blood English Heart]

No but it's entirely feasible that say Millwall might be playing away at Bury, Rochdale or Oldham at the same time as City or United are at home to Chelsea. So makes sense to take precautions.

[sentinel100]

Originally Posted by Irish Blood English Heart

No but it's entirely feasible that say Millwall might be playing away at Bury, Rochdale or Oldham at the same time as City or United are at home to Chelsea. So makes sense to take precautions.

Feasible, perhaps, but unlikely. I doesn't make sense to build permanent facilities for such remote possibilities. It does make sense to build a flexible marshalling system.

[WatcherZero]

Some details on the Trafford Line in a report on the Earnback Model. Its proposing that SEMMS and Trafford Line are pushed as high priority projects but that a program of works that could be performed extending the Local Transport Fund beyond its currently financed end in 2016 through to 2019 and then from 2019-2025 is developed.

Proposed construction start in 2015/16,
Cost £330m (to come from Earnback model and fare box revenue), Estimated economic return £200m p/a
Preperation and commencement works to commence later this year
Will only be funded as far as Trafford Centre, extension to Port Salford would require 3rd party contributions and a seperate business plan (could be considered a B phase).

[scientist12]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

Some details on the Trafford Line in a report on the Earnback Model. Its proposing that SEMMS and Trafford Line are pushed as high priority projects but that a program of works that could be performed extending the Local Transport Fund beyond its currently financed end in 2016 through to 2019 and then from 2019-2025 is developed.

Proposed construction start in 2015/16,
Cost £330m (to come from Earnback model and fare box revenue), Estimated economic return £200m p/a
Preperation and commencement works to commence later this year
Will only be funded as far as Trafford Centre, extension to Port Salford would require 3rd party contributions and a seperate business plan (could be considered a B phase).

Excellent and what we are dyeing to know is what's potentially on the table for 2019 to 2025.

[heatonparkincakes]

Any suggestions of who, what and how third party involvement might be?

[heatonparkincakes]

Originally Posted by Irish Blood English Heart

No but it's entirely feasible that say Millwall might be playing away at Bury, Rochdale or Oldham at the same time as City or United are at home to Chelsea. So makes sense to take precautions.

Quite feasible, but let's be honest and with respect, it's unlikely and even if so it's so rare that such improbability might led you to place arm guards on the platforms in case of a terrorist attack, a mobile hospital in cause of swine flu affecting commuter en masse or even a fully staffed ticket office in case of the Internet crashing and the visit of a USS aircraft carrier at Salford Quays and all the crew visiting to travel to shop at Stockport market.

Yes I am being costic as I believe they say locally. Aside from juvenile football fans there is no one who needs segregating. (EDL don't do stations). Their inability to hold a drink should not mean a public building needs to be permanently buggered to control them.

[WatcherZero]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

Any suggestions of who, what and how third party involvement might be?

Likely Peel Ports/Peel Holdings and Salford council though the report doesnt name names.

[WatcherZero]

Originally Posted by scientist12

Excellent and what we are dyeing to know is what's potentially on the table for 2019 to 2025.

I posted a list of projects in the non-metrolink thread.

[Sir Miles Platting]

It's 'caustic' parky. Like in the highly corrosive 'caustic soda'.

I know I know, I'll have to watch myself from now on...

[mackenziesoley]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

Some details on the Trafford Line in a report on the Earnback Model. Its proposing that SEMMS and Trafford Line are pushed as high priority projects but that a program of works that could be performed extending the Local Transport Fund beyond its currently financed end in 2016 through to 2019 and then from 2019-2025 is developed.

Proposed construction start in 2015/16,
Cost £330m (to come from Earnback model and fare box revenue), Estimated economic return £200m p/a
Preperation and commencement works to commence later this year
Will only be funded as far as Trafford Centre, extension to Port Salford would require 3rd party contributions and a seperate business plan (could be considered a B phase).

Just as I suspected when they were talking about a Trafford Park and Port Salford line a few weeks back. They spilt it into a profitable line with a major pull towards the end of the line that will help with jobs in the middle providing all day round demand for the line (great for capturing financial benefits) and then letting the Port Salford developers put their money where their mouth is for future work. I bet that any planning permission for the developments requires public transport.

[Irish Blood English Heart]

£200m p/a? Doesn't that translate as between 75m and 100m journeys per year?

[trinityboy]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

Aside from juvenile football fans there is no one who needs segregating. (EDL don't do stations).

Unfortunately they do sometimes, had the misfortune to travel via Rochdale two Saturdays ago when load of them packed on to the Yorkshire bound train. Never been happier to see the British Transport Police mob-handed and riding shotgun - ( with Tasers!) - and glad we were getting off at Smithy Bridge...

[BiggerisBetter]

Originally Posted by Gerbil

But when tram two leaves tram three moves to the end of the platform and tram 4 has a space to go into behind, so no hold up. Kind of like in the petrol station where you go to the furthest up pump you can so that someone can get in behind.

Would this not be prevented in the ase of double units (which in the future will see use on at least the Alti and SM lines)? Is there a case for lenghtening the platforms at Cornbrrok to alleviate this? Would this be possible?

So we are limited to 60 tph with the 2 city crossings which would be taken up (post TMS) by:

- 10 tph Ali
- 10 tph SM
- 10 tph Airport
- 10 tph Port Salford
- 5 tph Eccles
- 5 tph Mediacity

With a further 25tph capacity on the Cornbrook viaduct. Does anyone know how mant trams per hour could realistically be turned back at Cornbrook? Couls this cope with the 10tph Port Salford line if another line was introduced south/west of Cornbrook?

I am keen on conversion of the Fallowfield loop (only to Fallowfield itself) but recognise that the case for this wouldn't work if it required additional capacity along the Cornbrook Viaduct (which doesn't seem to be the case). A bit to short a journey to turn back at Cornbrook too. I think any potential future capacity on the Eccles line could be coped with doubling of Mediacity trams so no need for increased frequencies there.

[kriis101]

Originally Posted by BiggerisBetter

Would this not be prevented in the ase of double units (which in the future will see use on at least the Alti and SM lines)? Is there a case for lenghtening the platforms at Cornbrrok to alleviate this? Would this be possible?

So we are limited to 60 tph with the 2 city crossings which would be taken up (post TMS) by:

- 10 tph Ali
- 10 tph SM
- 10 tph Airport
- 10 tph Port Salford
- 5 tph Eccles
- 5 tph Mediacity

With a further 25tph capacity on the Cornbrook viaduct. Does anyone know how mant trams per hour could realistically be turned back at Cornbrook? Couls this cope with the 10tph Port Salford line if another line was introduced south/west of Cornbrook?

I am keen on conversion of the Fallowfield loop (only to Fallowfield itself) but recognise that the case for this wouldn't work if it required additional capacity along the Cornbrook Viaduct (which doesn't seem to be the case). A bit to short a journey to turn back at Cornbrook too. I think any potential future capacity on the Eccles line could be coped with doubling of Mediacity trams so no need for increased frequencies there.

Few points:
Doubles won't run to South Manchester - Doubles havn't been OK'd to go past the Newton Heath depot.
The Airport line is only to be 5tph at present.
I'm not sure that the Trafford Centre line will be a 6min frequency to start with.

[BiggerisBetter]

Originally Posted by kriis101

Few points:
Doubles won't run to South Manchester - Doubles havn't been OK'd to go past the Newton Heath depot.
The Airport line is only to be 5tph at present.
I'm not sure that the Trafford Centre line will be a 6min frequency to start with.

As far as I understand it has been indicated that both Airport and Port Salford lines could be increased to 10tph in the future (obviously depending on ridership and whether developments such as Airport City, Port Salford etc. are delivered on the scale currently envisaged).

Even if the East Didsbury line isn't extended to Stockport, it is my view that doubles will be needed (I'm sure there is a way around the current clearance only up to Newton Heath). Whilst only a 12 minute frequency at present, trams arriving from St Werburghs are pretty full in the peaks. Burton Road, West Didsbury and Didsbury will be very busy stops (with patronage also from Withington and East Didsbury). I don't think singles on a 6 minute frequency will cope with demand on this line. Also, surely once the Oldham line eventually reaches Rochdale, doubles may be required in the paeks on this line too?

[WatcherZero]

Originally Posted by Irish Blood English Heart

£200m p/a? Doesn't that translate as between 75m and 100m journeys per year?

No its economic benefits; reduced road congestion, more journeys being made, more investment, etc....

[Motortownman]

Who's to say the Eccles line doesn't go to every 6 minutes if the patronage keeps rising? And I still think it's that line that should go to Port Salford.

[laser2k]

Originally Posted by BiggerisBetter

- 10 tph Airport

Isn't there talk of a third platform at Deansgate-Castlefield that could be used as the terminus for the airport line?

[WatcherZero]

Theres been some planning by the council of a office development in the area which would rebuild the station yes.

[heatonparkincakes]

Originally Posted by Sir Miles Platting

It's 'caustic' parky. Like in the highly corrosive 'caustic soda'.

I know I know, I'll have to watch myself from now on...

Thank you local person with local phrases.