daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy (aug.2, 2013) | DMCA policy | flipboard magazine

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > European Forums > UK & Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > Manchester Metro Area > Greater Manchester Transport Projects

Greater Manchester Transport Projects Transport Matters For Greater Manchester and Surrounding Areas



Reply

 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 25 votes, 5.00 average.
Old February 3rd, 2010, 01:26 AM   #81
MarkO
Registered User
 
MarkO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 883
Likes (Received): 73

Talking of old MEN articles

Ok you lot: here's a piece that was published in the MEN during 1996, just after the bomb in fact.

image hosted on flickr


OK I was a bit off the wallop, but I had a go! (I love the last line: "Mark Ovenden is a reader" so f*****g funny!

You see these ideas about a 2CC go back a long way!!! And I'm quite sure I wasn't the first. Come along ye historians?! Let's get the truth out there!
MarkO no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
 
Old February 3rd, 2010, 01:09 PM   #82
MarkO
Registered User
 
MarkO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 883
Likes (Received): 73

BEST MAP AWARD

And just in case any of you have missed this on the "subways" thread, here's a most brilliant map of all planned future services made by a forummer called XCH:

Quote:
Originally Posted by XCH View Post
OK, here's my next go with all amendments as suggested. Unfortunately can't get a decent resolution version on photobucket but it gives you the idea - its designed with an A2 or A1 paper size, which would be appropriate for stop etc. You would obviously need a scaled down version for inside the trams themselves.

You gotta hand it to him/her (sorry, your gender is currently unknown to us XCH!) this is a brilliant amalgamation of all our comments about mapping issues on here since we first got nattering about it.

Very impressive effort.

Last edited by MarkO; February 3rd, 2010 at 01:10 PM. Reason: typo
MarkO no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 02:34 PM   #83
ScouseinManc
Violently happy
 
ScouseinManc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Liverpool & Manchester
Posts: 849
Likes (Received): 36

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkO View Post
You gotta hand it to him/her (sorry, your gender is currently unknown to us XCH!) this is a brilliant amalgamation of all our comments about mapping issues on here since we first got nattering about it.

Very impressive effort.
If only eh Marky!!

Think that's the best so far!
ScouseinManc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 03:28 PM   #84
Gavin
SSC Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 918
Likes (Received): 41

would love to see that map with heavy rail added to it.
Gavin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 04:01 PM   #85
iheartthenew
Registered User
 
iheartthenew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: THE DIZZY HEIGHTS
Posts: 3,646
Likes (Received): 486

fantastic map, well done XCH
iheartthenew no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 04:02 PM   #86
WatcherZero
Registered User
 
WatcherZero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 16,493

With Heavy Rail, probably need it to be 2 if not 3x as large just to be legible. Half the rail lines would be conflicting with the station names.

This is just with Phase two (though covering a slightly wider area):

WatcherZero no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 04:26 PM   #87
MarkO
Registered User
 
MarkO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 883
Likes (Received): 73

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin View Post
would love to see that map with heavy rail added to it.
Yeah Gavin it's a great idea, but as Watcher has shown it might be a tough call! Take a look at just the Grtr Manch area rail routes below:
image hosted on flickr


Having said that when a GM Smartcard comes in - probably around the time of the completion of 3b - it's highly likely we'll need a joint rail map of all services for ease of seamless integration!

...and they managed that for Greater London with the Oyster map (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...rvices-map.pdf)so I guess it must be possible for Greater Manchester!!

So there's your challenge XCH!!!
MarkO no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 04:59 PM   #88
Gavin
SSC Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Manchester
Posts: 918
Likes (Received): 41

yeah, I think i would keep the colours for the metrolink lines and just show heavy rail lines in black but with station names. Would be pretty cool.
Gavin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 06:36 PM   #89
Frodz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 886
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkO View Post
Yeah Gavin it's a great idea, but as Watcher has shown it might be a tough call! Take a look at just the Grtr Manch area rail routes below:
image hosted on flickr


Having said that when a GM Smartcard comes in - probably around the time of the completion of 3b - it's highly likely we'll need a joint rail map of all services for ease of seamless integration!

...and they managed that for Greater London with the Oyster map (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...rvices-map.pdf)so I guess it must be possible for Greater Manchester!!

So there's your challenge XCH!!!
On page 6 of this document there is a map which has a similar style to the above (though I think simplified/more concerning the Manchester Hub) but which has Metrolink 3B.

Unfortunately it's small and very low resolution so nothing much discernible but means that perhaps there is a high res version of the same map knocking about........

http://www.tag-mcr.org.uk/.../GMITA%...en%20Clark.ppt
Frodz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 06:40 PM   #90
Gdogg371
Fly Swatter
 
Gdogg371's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,049
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherguevara View Post
Here's the Stockport Marple route (taken from the document: Stockport Metropolitan Borough Council Local Development Framework, Core Strategy
Development Plan Document, ISSUES AND OPTIONS PAPER Consultation – 26/09/07 to 09/11/07" which unfortunately doesn't seem to be available anymore (as it has been superceded by a later paper that is vaguer about potential light rail in the borough. The busway is proposed in the GMITA papers as going along the same alignment to Bredbury (where the blue line joins the rail line) and the north towards Hyde.



Then there's the GM Rail Strategy suggestion of tram-trains to Glossop, Rose Hill via Hyde, and the Styal line, as well as eventually to Glazebrook and Rochdale via Castleton. And of course the tram-trains to Chester and Crewe via Northwich (not sure who suggested that) and Altrincham to Stockport.

That's a lot of nonexistant infrastructure.
has someone stated that they would like to run tram trains out as far as glazebrook?
Gdogg371 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 07:27 PM   #91
WatcherZero
Registered User
 
WatcherZero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 16,493

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodz View Post
On page 6 of this document there is a map which has a similar style to the above (though I think simplified/more concerning the Manchester Hub) but which has Metrolink 3B.

Unfortunately it's small and very low resolution so nothing much discernible but means that perhaps there is a high res version of the same map knocking about........

http://www.tag-mcr.org.uk/.../GMITA%...en%20Clark.ppt
That link doesnt work but I imagine you mean this file?

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/290...ssues_for_2010

Yeah, its labelled Manchester Hub but theirs no meta data to indicate a name or source. Does look related to Marks map (same style).
WatcherZero no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 08:03 PM   #92
Frodz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 886
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
That link doesnt work but I imagine you mean this file?

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/290...ssues_for_2010

Yeah, its labelled Manchester Hub but theirs no meta data to indicate a name or source. Does look related to Marks map (same style).
Yeah that's the one. Strange, the link worked for me earlier

I know, not much to go on but i'd thought i'd share. I imagine a combined version of Marks and this map would be pretty thorough.
Frodz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 11:18 PM   #93
Cherguevara
Registered User
 
Cherguevara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,792
Likes (Received): 516

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdogg371 View Post
has someone stated that they would like to run tram trains out as far as glazebrook?
Not as such. A Strategic Rail Authority paper on the future of rail in Greater Manchester suggested that the CLC line to Liverpool could be redirected to the Chat Moss line via new track and with the increased capacity tram-trains run between Glaszebrook and town. But I wouldn't say it's a serious proposal.
Cherguevara no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2010, 12:24 AM   #94
heatonparkincakes
Registered User
 
heatonparkincakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,605
Likes (Received): 246

Nice burst of welcomed energy on here eh!

I am curious Che about that stockport map, why are the BR signs are in black and blue? Whats that then? Obviously stations but the blue whats that?
__________________
1914 Public squalor, private wealth
2014 Public squalor, private wealth
heatonparkincakes no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #95
Gdogg371
Fly Swatter
 
Gdogg371's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,049
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherguevara View Post
Not as such. A Strategic Rail Authority paper on the future of rail in Greater Manchester suggested that the CLC line to Liverpool could be redirected to the Chat Moss line via new track and with the increased capacity tram-trains run between Glaszebrook and town. But I wouldn't say it's a serious proposal.
i think its a great idea. the northern way proposals and that article in rail magazine were talking about some seriously expensive options for the oxford road corridor to create capacity. if they could have tram trains from glazebrook hopping viaducts up onto the metrolink line and down into the street, that would help free up some capacity. not to mention the fact that the last time that anything decent happened to flixton and irlam was when they built the ship canal.
Gdogg371 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2010, 01:08 PM   #96
Cherguevara
Registered User
 
Cherguevara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,792
Likes (Received): 516

Quote:
Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes View Post
Nice burst of welcomed energy on here eh!

I am curious Che about that stockport map, why are the BR signs are in black and blue? Whats that then? Obviously stations but the blue whats that?
Sorry I couldn't get the key to fit on the same image. Black is stations that exist now, blue is stations that they might potentially build. I don't think any of these specific plans made it to the final UDP document so they couldn't be called firm objectives.

The obvious ones are Cheadle Heath, Adswood and a P&R station on the SEMMMS road. I'm think the far distant one is a new High Lane Station nearer the village and the other one is immediately south of Stepping Hill Hospital.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdogg371 View Post
i think its a great idea. the northern way proposals and that article in rail magazine were talking about some seriously expensive options for the oxford road corridor to create capacity. if they could have tram trains from glazebrook hopping viaducts up onto the metrolink line and down into the street, that would help free up some capacity. not to mention the fact that the last time that anything decent happened to flixton and irlam was when they built the ship canal.
Can you remember any of the details of how that would help around Oxford Road, as I haven't seen it mentioned in that context before.

As for Glazebrook it would require a CLC to Chat Moss heavy rail link to divert some freight and regional services, which would be very expensive. The other problem is that Glazebrook is a pretty poor place to end a Metrolink line, as usually the terminuses are sited in substantial towns to ensure more balanced traffic on the line. Warrington would be the obvious place, but the line is too busy and the town is probably a bit far for Metrolink to be a valid option. Leigh could do with a connection but is too far north that an extension of this route would make any sense. Altrincham via Cadishead and Partington is a possibility, although it might not be worth the expense to serve those relatively poor communities alone (as Altrincham commuters would never use the line).

Last edited by Cherguevara; February 4th, 2010 at 01:18 PM.
Cherguevara no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2010, 04:23 PM   #97
Gdogg371
Fly Swatter
 
Gdogg371's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,049
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherguevara View Post
Sorry I couldn't get the key to fit on the same image. Black is stations that exist now, blue is stations that they might potentially build. I don't think any of these specific plans made it to the final UDP document so they couldn't be called firm objectives.

The obvious ones are Cheadle Heath, Adswood and a P&R station on the SEMMMS road. I'm think the far distant one is a new High Lane Station nearer the village and the other one is immediately south of Stepping Hill Hospital.



Can you remember any of the details of how that would help around Oxford Road, as I haven't seen it mentioned in that context before.

As for Glazebrook it would require a CLC to Chat Moss heavy rail link to divert some freight and regional services, which would be very expensive. The other problem is that Glazebrook is a pretty poor place to end a Metrolink line, as usually the terminuses are sited in substantial towns to ensure more balanced traffic on the line. Warrington would be the obvious place, but the line is too busy and the town is probably a bit far for Metrolink to be a valid option. Leigh could do with a connection but is too far north that an extension of this route would make any sense. Altrincham via Cadishead and Partington is a possibility, although it might not be worth the expense to serve those relatively poor communities alone (as Altrincham commuters would never use the line).
i dont think i laid out what i said there very well. the rail article was talking about things like 4 tracking the oxford road corridor and building flyovers for increasing capacity. what i suggested was that if glazebrook to town became metrolink then those tram/trains coming in could avoid castlefield junction by joining the metrolink line. as for the caddishead to altrincham metrolink, that bridge over the canal is a rusting wreck and would probably make the line too expensive for a few run down suburbs on the very edge of manchester. also i dont think a tram going caddishead to manchester via altrincham would be much quicker than getting the bus. going off topic a little bit, but they could run freight westward via glazebrook and over that bridge instead.
Gdogg371 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2010, 04:40 PM   #98
Cherguevara
Registered User
 
Cherguevara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,792
Likes (Received): 516

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdogg371 View Post
i dont think i laid out what i said there very well. the rail article was talking about things like 4 tracking the oxford road corridor and building flyovers for increasing capacity. what i suggested was that if glazebrook to town became metrolink then those tram/trains coming in could avoid castlefield junction by joining the metrolink line. as for the caddishead to altrincham metrolink, that bridge over the canal is a rusting wreck and would probably make the line too expensive for a few run down suburbs on the very edge of manchester. also i dont think a tram going caddishead to manchester via altrincham would be much quicker than getting the bus. going off topic a little bit, but they could run freight westward via glazebrook and over that bridge instead.
Ah I see what you mean.

In terms of Cadishead I meant bend the line south of Irlam and cross the rickety bridge and terminate at Altrincham, not at Cadishead. It probably wouldn't be very cost effective though.
Cherguevara no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2010, 06:09 PM   #99
heatonparkincakes
Registered User
 
heatonparkincakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,605
Likes (Received): 246

cheers che. It now makes more sense. It would be curious to work out how they envisaged extending the Met from stockport bus station. Quite a tricky thing I'd surmise.

Now as for a tram to Cadishead/Irlam/Partington. I am not being funny, but given the area, the lack of demand, the cost and that the local electorate spoke as one on Roger the dodger, Id say there is no chance. Not even worth talking about when there is far more worthy and more likely to successful places that need a tram.
__________________
1914 Public squalor, private wealth
2014 Public squalor, private wealth
heatonparkincakes no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2010, 07:02 PM   #100
Gdogg371
Fly Swatter
 
Gdogg371's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,049
Likes (Received): 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes View Post
cheers che. It now makes more sense. It would be curious to work out how they envisaged extending the Met from stockport bus station. Quite a tricky thing I'd surmise.

Now as for a tram to Cadishead/Irlam/Partington. I am not being funny, but given the area, the lack of demand, the cost and that the local electorate spoke as one on Roger the dodger, Id say there is no chance. Not even worth talking about when there is far more worthy and more likely to successful places that need a tram.
ive already bored the arse off everybody in work today with this story, so now its your turn. it took me 4 hours to make the round trip from salford to caddishead/irlam area last night by public transport. i admit that this was partly due to my missing the train to irlam, by turning up late.

however the next train wasnt for an hour and in the end i had to get the 256 to flixton and run to caddishead way in 15 minutes before this warehouse i was trying to find closed. then i couldnt get a single minicab company to pick me up, the next train wasnt for another 2 hours and i dont know the bus routes around there. in the end i had to walk back to flixton and get on the 256 to manchester and walk back from the gmex to salford. all this could have been avoided if there was a frequent mass transit system running to a decent time in the evening.

having grown up in the area, i think it is a chicken and egg situation. the area is run down because there is no decent transport links and because the area is run down it wont get decent transport links. its like the bermuda triangle around there. anybody who thinks that east manchester was bleak before the developers moved in should take a walk around caddishead, irlam, partington or flixton on a cold february night.
Gdogg371 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu