TRANSPORT | Metrolink - Future Phases & Fantasy Extensions

[MarkO]

Ok you lot: here's a piece that was published in the MEN during 1996, just after the bomb in fact.

image hosted on flickr


OK I was a bit off the wallop, but I had a go! (I love the last line: "Mark Ovenden is a reader" so f*****g funny!

You see these ideas about a 2CC go back a long way!!! And I'm quite sure I wasn't the first. Come along ye historians?! Let's get the truth out there!

[MarkO]

And just in case any of you have missed this on the "subways" thread, here's a most brilliant map of all planned future services made by a forummer called XCH:

Originally Posted by XCH

OK, here's my next go with all amendments as suggested. Unfortunately can't get a decent resolution version on photobucket but it gives you the idea - its designed with an A2 or A1 paper size, which would be appropriate for stop etc. You would obviously need a scaled down version for inside the trams themselves.

You gotta hand it to him/her (sorry, your gender is currently unknown to us XCH!) this is a brilliant amalgamation of all our comments about mapping issues on here since we first got nattering about it.

Very impressive effort.

[ScouseinManc]

Originally Posted by MarkO

You gotta hand it to him/her (sorry, your gender is currently unknown to us XCH!) this is a brilliant amalgamation of all our comments about mapping issues on here since we first got nattering about it.

Very impressive effort.

If only eh Marky!!

Think that's the best so far!

[Gavin]

would love to see that map with heavy rail added to it.

[iheartthenew]

fantastic map, well done XCH

[WatcherZero]

With Heavy Rail, probably need it to be 2 if not 3x as large just to be legible. Half the rail lines would be conflicting with the station names.

This is just with Phase two (though covering a slightly wider area):

[MarkO]

Originally Posted by Gavin

would love to see that map with heavy rail added to it.

Yeah Gavin it's a great idea, but as Watcher has shown it might be a tough call! Take a look at just the Grtr Manch area rail routes below:
image hosted on flickr


Having said that when a GM Smartcard comes in - probably around the time of the completion of 3b - it's highly likely we'll need a joint rail map of all services for ease of seamless integration!

...and they managed that for Greater London with the Oyster map (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...rvices-map.pdf)so I guess it must be possible for Greater Manchester!!

So there's your challenge XCH!!!

[Gavin]

yeah, I think i would keep the colours for the metrolink lines and just show heavy rail lines in black but with station names. Would be pretty cool.

[Frodz]

Originally Posted by MarkO

Yeah Gavin it's a great idea, but as Watcher has shown it might be a tough call! Take a look at just the Grtr Manch area rail routes below:
image hosted on flickr


Having said that when a GM Smartcard comes in - probably around the time of the completion of 3b - it's highly likely we'll need a joint rail map of all services for ease of seamless integration!

...and they managed that for Greater London with the Oyster map (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...rvices-map.pdf)so I guess it must be possible for Greater Manchester!!

So there's your challenge XCH!!!

On page 6 of this document there is a map which has a similar style to the above (though I think simplified/more concerning the Manchester Hub) but which has Metrolink 3B.

Unfortunately it's small and very low resolution so nothing much discernible but means that perhaps there is a high res version of the same map knocking about........

http://www.tag-mcr.org.uk/.../GMITA%...en%20Clark.ppt

[Gdogg371]

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

Here's the Stockport Marple route (taken from the document: Stockport Metropolitan Borough Council Local Development Framework, Core Strategy
Development Plan Document, ISSUES AND OPTIONS PAPER Consultation – 26/09/07 to 09/11/07" which unfortunately doesn't seem to be available anymore (as it has been superceded by a later paper that is vaguer about potential light rail in the borough. The busway is proposed in the GMITA papers as going along the same alignment to Bredbury (where the blue line joins the rail line) and the north towards Hyde.



Then there's the GM Rail Strategy suggestion of tram-trains to Glossop, Rose Hill via Hyde, and the Styal line, as well as eventually to Glazebrook and Rochdale via Castleton. And of course the tram-trains to Chester and Crewe via Northwich (not sure who suggested that) and Altrincham to Stockport.

That's a lot of nonexistant infrastructure.

has someone stated that they would like to run tram trains out as far as glazebrook?

[WatcherZero]

Originally Posted by Frodz

On page 6 of this document there is a map which has a similar style to the above (though I think simplified/more concerning the Manchester Hub) but which has Metrolink 3B.

Unfortunately it's small and very low resolution so nothing much discernible but means that perhaps there is a high res version of the same map knocking about........

http://www.tag-mcr.org.uk/.../GMITA%...en%20Clark.ppt

That link doesnt work but I imagine you mean this file?

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/290...ssues_for_2010

Yeah, its labelled Manchester Hub but theirs no meta data to indicate a name or source. Does look related to Marks map (same style).

[Frodz]

Originally Posted by WatcherZero

That link doesnt work but I imagine you mean this file?

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/290...ssues_for_2010

Yeah, its labelled Manchester Hub but theirs no meta data to indicate a name or source. Does look related to Marks map (same style).

Yeah that's the one. Strange, the link worked for me earlier

I know, not much to go on but i'd thought i'd share. I imagine a combined version of Marks and this map would be pretty thorough.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by Gdogg371

has someone stated that they would like to run tram trains out as far as glazebrook?

Not as such. A Strategic Rail Authority paper on the future of rail in Greater Manchester suggested that the CLC line to Liverpool could be redirected to the Chat Moss line via new track and with the increased capacity tram-trains run between Glaszebrook and town. But I wouldn't say it's a serious proposal.

[heatonparkincakes]

Nice burst of welcomed energy on here eh!

I am curious Che about that stockport map, why are the BR signs are in black and blue? Whats that then? Obviously stations but the blue whats that?

[Gdogg371]

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

Not as such. A Strategic Rail Authority paper on the future of rail in Greater Manchester suggested that the CLC line to Liverpool could be redirected to the Chat Moss line via new track and with the increased capacity tram-trains run between Glaszebrook and town. But I wouldn't say it's a serious proposal.

i think its a great idea. the northern way proposals and that article in rail magazine were talking about some seriously expensive options for the oxford road corridor to create capacity. if they could have tram trains from glazebrook hopping viaducts up onto the metrolink line and down into the street, that would help free up some capacity. not to mention the fact that the last time that anything decent happened to flixton and irlam was when they built the ship canal.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

Nice burst of welcomed energy on here eh!

I am curious Che about that stockport map, why are the BR signs are in black and blue? Whats that then? Obviously stations but the blue whats that?

Sorry I couldn't get the key to fit on the same image. Black is stations that exist now, blue is stations that they might potentially build. I don't think any of these specific plans made it to the final UDP document so they couldn't be called firm objectives.

The obvious ones are Cheadle Heath, Adswood and a P&R station on the SEMMMS road. I'm think the far distant one is a new High Lane Station nearer the village and the other one is immediately south of Stepping Hill Hospital.

Originally Posted by Gdogg371

i think its a great idea. the northern way proposals and that article in rail magazine were talking about some seriously expensive options for the oxford road corridor to create capacity. if they could have tram trains from glazebrook hopping viaducts up onto the metrolink line and down into the street, that would help free up some capacity. not to mention the fact that the last time that anything decent happened to flixton and irlam was when they built the ship canal.

Can you remember any of the details of how that would help around Oxford Road, as I haven't seen it mentioned in that context before.

As for Glazebrook it would require a CLC to Chat Moss heavy rail link to divert some freight and regional services, which would be very expensive. The other problem is that Glazebrook is a pretty poor place to end a Metrolink line, as usually the terminuses are sited in substantial towns to ensure more balanced traffic on the line. Warrington would be the obvious place, but the line is too busy and the town is probably a bit far for Metrolink to be a valid option. Leigh could do with a connection but is too far north that an extension of this route would make any sense. Altrincham via Cadishead and Partington is a possibility, although it might not be worth the expense to serve those relatively poor communities alone (as Altrincham commuters would never use the line).

[Gdogg371]

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

Sorry I couldn't get the key to fit on the same image. Black is stations that exist now, blue is stations that they might potentially build. I don't think any of these specific plans made it to the final UDP document so they couldn't be called firm objectives.

The obvious ones are Cheadle Heath, Adswood and a P&R station on the SEMMMS road. I'm think the far distant one is a new High Lane Station nearer the village and the other one is immediately south of Stepping Hill Hospital.



Can you remember any of the details of how that would help around Oxford Road, as I haven't seen it mentioned in that context before.

As for Glazebrook it would require a CLC to Chat Moss heavy rail link to divert some freight and regional services, which would be very expensive. The other problem is that Glazebrook is a pretty poor place to end a Metrolink line, as usually the terminuses are sited in substantial towns to ensure more balanced traffic on the line. Warrington would be the obvious place, but the line is too busy and the town is probably a bit far for Metrolink to be a valid option. Leigh could do with a connection but is too far north that an extension of this route would make any sense. Altrincham via Cadishead and Partington is a possibility, although it might not be worth the expense to serve those relatively poor communities alone (as Altrincham commuters would never use the line).

i dont think i laid out what i said there very well. the rail article was talking about things like 4 tracking the oxford road corridor and building flyovers for increasing capacity. what i suggested was that if glazebrook to town became metrolink then those tram/trains coming in could avoid castlefield junction by joining the metrolink line. as for the caddishead to altrincham metrolink, that bridge over the canal is a rusting wreck and would probably make the line too expensive for a few run down suburbs on the very edge of manchester. also i dont think a tram going caddishead to manchester via altrincham would be much quicker than getting the bus. going off topic a little bit, but they could run freight westward via glazebrook and over that bridge instead.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by Gdogg371

i dont think i laid out what i said there very well. the rail article was talking about things like 4 tracking the oxford road corridor and building flyovers for increasing capacity. what i suggested was that if glazebrook to town became metrolink then those tram/trains coming in could avoid castlefield junction by joining the metrolink line. as for the caddishead to altrincham metrolink, that bridge over the canal is a rusting wreck and would probably make the line too expensive for a few run down suburbs on the very edge of manchester. also i dont think a tram going caddishead to manchester via altrincham would be much quicker than getting the bus. going off topic a little bit, but they could run freight westward via glazebrook and over that bridge instead.

Ah I see what you mean.

In terms of Cadishead I meant bend the line south of Irlam and cross the rickety bridge and terminate at Altrincham, not at Cadishead. It probably wouldn't be very cost effective though.

[heatonparkincakes]

cheers che. It now makes more sense. It would be curious to work out how they envisaged extending the Met from stockport bus station. Quite a tricky thing I'd surmise.

Now as for a tram to Cadishead/Irlam/Partington. I am not being funny, but given the area, the lack of demand, the cost and that the local electorate spoke as one on Roger the dodger, Id say there is no chance. Not even worth talking about when there is far more worthy and more likely to successful places that need a tram.

[Gdogg371]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

cheers che. It now makes more sense. It would be curious to work out how they envisaged extending the Met from stockport bus station. Quite a tricky thing I'd surmise.

Now as for a tram to Cadishead/Irlam/Partington. I am not being funny, but given the area, the lack of demand, the cost and that the local electorate spoke as one on Roger the dodger, Id say there is no chance. Not even worth talking about when there is far more worthy and more likely to successful places that need a tram.

ive already bored the arse off everybody in work today with this story, so now its your turn. it took me 4 hours to make the round trip from salford to caddishead/irlam area last night by public transport. i admit that this was partly due to my missing the train to irlam, by turning up late.

however the next train wasnt for an hour and in the end i had to get the 256 to flixton and run to caddishead way in 15 minutes before this warehouse i was trying to find closed. then i couldnt get a single minicab company to pick me up, the next train wasnt for another 2 hours and i dont know the bus routes around there. in the end i had to walk back to flixton and get on the 256 to manchester and walk back from the gmex to salford. all this could have been avoided if there was a frequent mass transit system running to a decent time in the evening.

having grown up in the area, i think it is a chicken and egg situation. the area is run down because there is no decent transport links and because the area is run down it wont get decent transport links. its like the bermuda triangle around there. anybody who thinks that east manchester was bleak before the developers moved in should take a walk around caddishead, irlam, partington or flixton on a cold february night.