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Old March 4th, 2016, 04:10 PM   #221
Verso
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Wow, that's terrible.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 04:14 PM   #222
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Dutch cities are de-facto like that as well. Only major collector roads and arterials have a 50 km/h speed limit these days. 70 km/h has been removed in quite a number of cities, leaving the bulk of the street network at 30 and only some select roads at 50 km/h.

But given France's love affair with speed cameras and fining from 1 km/h too fast, you can see where this could go... 30 km/h is too slow once you leave the narrow and dense streets behind.

In the Netherlands, 30 km/h speed limits are usually not enforced very strictly. I don't know of any speed camera in a 30 zone.
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Old March 4th, 2016, 08:18 PM   #223
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Quote:
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Sankt Goarshausen, once I stayed overnight in a camp there.
Yeah, i remmember you. You were that guy with a Olimpija Ljubljana Flag over his trailer

Welcome to Ljubljana, drive carefully and watch out, rich people driving out

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Old March 4th, 2016, 08:48 PM   #224
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Italians boasting with their Ferraris.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 04:00 PM   #225
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Wow, that's terrible.
Why terrible? The average speed in city is usually around 30 km/h anyway. The difference is that in properly organised 30-zone you get around smoothly, with less stops instead of going faster between intersections and stopping at red lights.

I guess that in Grenoble wider collecting streets are excluded from 30-zone.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 06:00 PM   #226
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Why terrible? The average speed in city is usually around 30 km/h anyway.
But it is not possible to maintain average speed of 30 km/h if it is the speed limit.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 08:27 PM   #227
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It seems that in London city center the average speed of cars is just ~16 km/h so having 30 km/h limits would make sense there.
http://www.treehugger.com/cars/traff...carriages.html

But Grenoble is significantly smaller than London so the average speed was probably around 30 km/h. In England the average speed is 38 km/h.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/c...-War-tank.html
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Old March 5th, 2016, 09:01 PM   #228
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One of the reasons why London doesn't top Travel Time Index (TTI) lists is that the off-peak speeds are so low that there isn't much difference with peak hour speeds.
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Old March 5th, 2016, 09:15 PM   #229
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What is L36?
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Old March 5th, 2016, 09:54 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
It seems that in London city center the average speed of cars is just ~16 km/h so having 30 km/h limits would make sense there.
http://www.treehugger.com/cars/traff...carriages.html
They would rather have 32 km/h limits instead. The reason for such a weird limit is that they still put road distances in miles, and by extension speed limits in miles per hour. So it's not that weird when seen in mph (32 km/h is 20 mph).
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Old March 5th, 2016, 10:42 PM   #231
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What is L36?
Landesstraße 36. State Road 36. It connects Telfs with Seefeld.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 12:59 AM   #232
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I guess that in Grenoble wider collecting streets are excluded from 30-zone.
That's possible. General speed limit in urban areas in Slovenia is 50 km/h, but there are some roads with speed limit 60 and 70 km/h. But 30 km/h is still very slow, it should be at least 40 km/h.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 01:34 AM   #233
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Landesstraße 36. State Road 36. It connects Telfs with Seefeld.
Speed limit area except on a certain road (without additional signs on streets crossing that road)? Well I never. But thanks anyway.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 01:40 AM   #234
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I wonder what the deal is with "Landesstrasse"
You see them marked on Googlemap or whatever
But when driving around Germany I never have seen any reference to them at all (unlike typical autobahn or bundesfernstrasse )

I wonder if the situation is similar to how county roads in Ontario Canada were treated, where they were virtually never signed from provincially-run roads (but changing now)
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Old March 6th, 2016, 12:02 PM   #235
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That's possible. General speed limit in urban areas in Slovenia is 50 km/h, but there are some roads with speed limit 60 and 70 km/h. But 30 km/h is still very slow, it should be at least 40 km/h.
Approach to city limits is under comprehensive transportation policy. City is not a place dedicated to drive in, but for its citizens to live in.
As I said you can't go faster on average, so calming traffic and improwing flow is a good thing. Not speaking about particular Grenoble case, but in general.

Last edited by Sponsor; March 6th, 2016 at 12:17 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 12:59 PM   #236
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And slower speeds are better when it comes to cars hitting pedestrians as the fatality rate grows exponentially.

But it seems that people can't decide on what the actual fatality rates are. A quick Google search revealed that some predict very optimistic 93% chance of survival at 50 km/h while others claim 45% change of survival. wtf?

By this graph the pedestrian death risk grows by 350% (from ~10% to ~35%) if the speed is 40 instead of 30 km/h.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 02:07 PM   #237
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Quote:
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Approach to city limits is under comprehensive transportation policy. City is not a place dedicated to drive in, but for its citizens to live in.
As I said you can't go faster on average, so calming traffic and improwing flow is a good thing. Not speaking about particular Grenoble case, but in general.
It would be even safer if speed limit were 10 km/h, so we'll just continue to disagree.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 03:42 PM   #238
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Everything that is not the laws of nature or mathematics is purely subjective so it's perfectly understandable that such things lead to disagreement.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 05:09 PM   #239
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It would be even safer if speed limit were 10 km/h, so we'll just continue to disagree.
Yeah, I can read that kind of arguments every time media pop out an article about traffic calming.

'Let's prohibit driving car, will be safer111!!'
'Lower that to 0 km/h, no accidents then!!!!11'

The graphic posted [email protected] shows how the exact 30 km/h is a compromise between cars and pedestrians.
And it's not only about safety but also about noise, aesthetics and better land use (slower speeds requires less space), lower maintance costs (almost no traffic lights). Not sure about air pollution as driving at that speed usually consumes more fuel.

I understand someone can dislike the idea but denominating it as 'terrible' while it's being implemented worldwide as successfull sollution is just an ignorance.
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Old March 6th, 2016, 05:23 PM   #240
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30 km/h is quickly too slow on a road that was designed for 50 km/h. People tend to go over the 30 limit as soon as there is two or three hundred meters of straight, sufficiently wide road for two cars to pass.

30 km/h is appropriate in dense urban cores with lots of pedestrians, cyclists, parked cars and narrow streets, but a city-wide 30 km/h limit is too low. But I suppose that in Grenoble, major streets and arterials are excluded from the 30 zone.

edit: they did in fact exclude some major routes from 30 km/h.
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