Politics in General (national, international, local, statewide)

[skydive]

Originally Posted by FIDEL CASTRO

I'm not only member of the Miami forum, I go to the Israeli, Chinse, zCzech

can you speak chinese and czech ?

[Endeavor305]

Originally Posted by QuantumX

I know I've been as annoying as hell on other threads defending Miami, so I've decided for the most part to stick to my own photo threads, and there is one in particular where you guys could really help a lot if you would just do what Fidel just did. Don't just leave me hanging out there by myself like some defenseless quarterback having to take the hits all the time. This is a very simple thing to do and nobody even has to know who you are.

To be honest, I don't find it necessary to go to other forums and debate with people who probably never been to Miami about how good the city is. All I would do, if anything, is say it's a badass place and provide photos (remember photos are worth a 1,000 words), but I'm not gonna fight with someone I don't know. For all I know it could be a 12 year old just wanting to get me upset. Again, in my opinion, best thing to do is drop photos and comments, but not argue with clowns.

[Hia-leah JDM]

Obama and Biden are in Sunrise right now and will hold an even at the Bank Antlantic Center at 4:30. And laetr tonight Obama will join Bill Clinton in Orlando after Obama's big infomercial tonight.

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by Endeavor305

To be honest, I don't find it necessary to go to other forums and debate with people who probably never been to Miami about how good the city is. All I would do, if anything, is say it's a badass place and provide photos (remember photos are worth a 1,000 words), but I'm not gonna fight with someone I don't know. For all I know it could be a 12 year old just wanting to get me upset. Again, in my opinion, best thing to do is drop photos and comments, but not argue with clowns.

You quoted me, but it's not like you read what I said. I don't debate with people anymore. I just post photos. I know how juvenile some of the threads can be, literally. What I'm saying is how I think you could help bring more positive attention and interest to the city by doing what Fidel did. You don't have to argue, fight, or debate with anybody! Nobody even needs to know who you are in the particular forum I speak of, but no matter. I'll just keep posting pictures to help bring more positive attention and interest to the city myself whereby I might help more projects make it out of the ground whether I get any support from this forum or not.

[floridian-will]

Originally Posted by QuantumX

What democrats do you speak of, Mike? As I said on the thread that got deleted, even though I'm a registered democrat, I have not always voted for a democrat. I vote for the person and whatever I think is best for the country or the situation at hand. As you do yourself, I have an abillity to see both sides of an issue which makes me a lot like my zodiac sign in truth, Libra. I don't hate George W. Bush or everything else republican because I don't hate anybody. And while I don't shy away from a liberal label, I'm more of a moderate liberal and you might be surprised at some of my personal views and opinions that you haven't yet heard.

Even republicans hate Bush. Why else would McCain try to distance himself from him at the last minute?

I also find it funny that people think that just because they have more money it makes them harder workers and better people. I work at Wal-Mart to pay for college, I have to pay taxes, I find it funny that Wal-Mart doesnt however.

[FTL Beach Bum]

Originally Posted by floridian-will

I find it funny that Wal-Mart doesnt however.

What retail outfit, large or small, does?

You could raise their "taxes" through the roof, you could penalize them to hell, and they'd still pass it on to the consumer...

[FTL Beach Bum]

Originally Posted by Hia-leah JDM

And laetr tonight Obama will join Bill Clinton in Orlando after Obama's big infomercial tonight.

You mean his speech that will be nothing short of a premature (and uncautiously overconfident) inaugural?

[floridian-will]

Originally Posted by FTL Beach Bum

You mean his speech that will be nothing short of a premature (and uncautiously overconfident) inaugural?

lol, one of the best parts of these elections is seeing how they make fun of shit like that on Saturday Night Live.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by spellbound

I would say Obama has been pretty well-known nationally since his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic Convention, so the "3 year" thing isn't really accurate.

Well known is subjective. Less than 1 out of 10 people watched the Dem. Convention for the whole week, much less for the keynote speaker.

Political junkies would know that Barrack Obama defeated the Black Republican Presidential hopeful for his US Senate seat. An honest poll of Obama supporters (and especially posting on this site) probably didn't even know that there was a Black Republican running for the Presidential Nomination, let alone know his name. Of course, they can probably find it on Wikipedia!

To paraphrase the discussion:
Barrack Supporter: I haven't heard one reason why to vote for McCain.
Me: #1 There are two wars going on, Barrack Obama is a junior Senator with Zero Militarty experience while McCain has learned from decades in government and does have Military experience.
and it went on and on.

So, being well known doesn't really matter much. I do believe that that the right experience does matter in many jobs: Airplane pilot, Doctor, and Commander in Chief are some of them.

Regardless, my point was specific to a number of posters here that were surprised about some of the things in Obama's political career.
Not whether he was known as in popularity.
Like his affiliation with The New Party and his September 6, 2001 radio interview where he exlpains his views on wealth redistribution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaCWApFl1jg

[Roark]

Originally Posted by floridian-will

I also find it funny that people think that just because they have more money it makes them harder workers and better people.

What do you mean funny, funny how?
As a poor kid in a Democrat household, I was brought up to believe that that wealthy people think they are better or harder workers. Union parents will do that.
I left town to work in a summer resort island out east and met many wealthy people. People that lived in $10M plus mansions (pricey in 1992) and drove Jeep Cherokees and were as nice as the people back home.
Rich people were impressed that I was working my ass off to pay for college because my parents couldn't afford it. They were encouraging with their words and supportive with their advice. From that summer, I learned that they were Americans like us, and rather than resent the wealthy as my parents had taught, I chose not to be poor. It was one of the important lessons learned that summer.
Sitting in on the Democratic National Committee meetings is another story.

Originally Posted by floridian-will

I work at Wal-Mart to pay for college, I have to pay taxes, I find it funny that Wal-Mart doesnt however.

Come on, you don't believe that Wal Mart doesn't pay any taxes? Who told you that!??
According to the 2007 audited Annual Report, Wal-Mart paid an effective tax rate of 33.6% and paid about $6,276,000,000 in taxes.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you paid less than $6.2 Billion in taxes in 2007.
Interestingly, Exxon paid $30 Billion in 2007. Yes, $30,000,000,000. That is OVER $82 Million per day.

[Endeavor305]

How nice rich people are has nothing to do with this election. I for one understand that. I have outlined why I believe Obama is the better choice. Had this been the 2000 election when the economy was very very strong and the middle class was not undergoing a financial crisis, I would most probably vote republican (assuming the republican candidate wasn't far worse than the other(s)). However, this is 2008 and we are under much different circumstances. I think the middle class needs help. Obama is the better choice in that regard.

As far as military and war. I'm confident Obama can make the decisions that are already recommended to him. I don't think military experience is a big deal for a president. As I've said before history proves this. All the president has to do is listen to his advisors and the pentagon. The president doesn't have to do any war planning or strategy. That's what the Generals are for. All the president does is 'sign off' on what they recommend. At the end of the day the pentagon decides what is best with regard to military. Please don't be so naive Roark. You can be sure if the president was a big liability in this regard, well, he won't be around long.

Wal-Mart shouldn't be getting any tax breaks.

[AddictedToSpace]

John McCain's own words were that he will do what ever General Patreus recommends. A Commander In Chief is only as good as the people he is surrounded by. How in the hell did George Bush make it because he had people around him that knew what they were doing. Unfortunately what they were doing was fu@king this country up, as seen by the distance that McCain continuously attempts to place between himself and W.

I simply love how McCain claims he will even stand up to his own party. So then how, pardon my AMERICAN, FUCK will he get anything done if he goes against the Democrats and the Republicans? Is going to go COMMUNIST? Or will it be a total military rule?

[Hia-leah JDM]

Originally Posted by FTL Beach Bum

You mean his speech that will be nothing short of a premature (and uncautiously overconfident) inaugural?

I must have missed when candidates were not allowed to speak to the public.

[Hia-leah JDM]

Obama adressed the crowd repeatedly as Sunrise. I know the arena is in Sunrise but he was speaking to 20K as if they all came from Sunrise and Sunrise is some major town in South Florida. Even national newscasts were talking about Obama speaking to the South Florida town of Sunrise. South Florida would have been more appropiate, if not Florida.
Anyways tonight Obama will top off a big day with a rally in Kissimmee at 11pm with Bill Clinton.

[floridian-will]

Originally Posted by Roark

What do you mean funny, funny how?
As a poor kid in a Democrat household, I was brought up to believe that that wealthy people think they are better or harder workers. Union parents will do that.
I left town to work in a summer resort island out east and met many wealthy people. People that lived in $10M plus mansions (pricey in 1992) and drove Jeep Cherokees and were as nice as the people back home.
Rich people were impressed that I was working my ass off to pay for college because my parents couldn't afford it. They were encouraging with their words and supportive with their advice. From that summer, I learned that they were Americans like us, and rather than resent the wealthy as my parents had taught, I chose not to be poor. It was one of the important lessons learned that summer.
Sitting in on the Democratic National Committee meetings is another story.
Come on, you don't believe that Wal Mart doesn't pay any taxes? Who told you that!??
According to the 2007 audited Annual Report, Wal-Mart paid an effective tax rate of 33.6% and paid about $6,276,000,000 in taxes.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you paid less than $6.2 Billion in taxes in 2007.
Interestingly, Exxon paid $30 Billion in 2007. Yes, $30,000,000,000. That is OVER $82 Million per day.

No, I paid like 8 billion in taxes at least, come on. Seriously though I guess I probably jumped at that rumor too quick, though I’m sure these big corporations get away with a lot of stuff through loop holes. And I really disagree with McCain’s stance that raising taxes for the rich will make large corporations want to move to Ireland instead of The U.S.A

I don’t think all rich people are snobby arrogant people and I don’t doubt that alot of rich people are incredibly hard workers, I just doubt that all incredibly hard workers are rich. However a few years ago I wouldnt have had to work my way through college. Its not like I grew up poor or anything, my family is in the same situation that a lot of America is in right now, and guess what McCain, we all used to be Joe the f*ck*** plumber.

I really don’t understand tax hikes and tax cuts though, is there a reason why everyone doesn’t pay the same percentage, wouldn’t that even everything out?

[brickell]

Trying really hard to stay out of the political discussion... Let's just say there was nothing hopeful about Alan Keyes. You're blowing smoke Roark.

My own contribution - a yummy downtown picture

image hosted on flickr

[Endeavor305]

Originally Posted by floridian-will

I’m sure these big corporations get away with a lot of stuff through loop holes.

They do and will continue to. They can afford to hire the best accountants. If they have to they will pass it on to the consumer. I think the increase in large corp taxes will also force these companies to be more efficient. Most products are shipped by truck in this country. So, this should help put pressure on lower fuel costs or looking into alternate fuels. These companies don't want their overhead to increase on the top (shipping) AND bottom lines (taxes). And if the Teamsters union gets involved, even more pressure on fuel costs.

Originally Posted by floridian-will

And I really disagree with McCain’s stance that raising taxes for the rich will make large corporations want to move to Ireland instead of The U.S.A

That ain't going to happen. Even with higher taxes (which they will minimize by exploiting new loopholes), it's not in their best business interest to move. Obama will also give these companies incentives and tax breaks for keeping jobs in the USA, so it will balance out some with the tax increase making it even less worthy to leave.

Originally Posted by floridian-will

I really don’t understand tax hikes and tax cuts though, is there a reason why everyone doesn’t pay the same percentage, wouldn’t that even everything out?

That's one of the things I don't understand about the tax code either. And this isn't something that applies to only one party, although the democratic party is a bit more skewed. I think everyone should pay the same percentage. Apparently, there has to be a reason for it. My guess is that tax revenue wouldn't be sufficient if it was that way. Or it would disrupt the balance of the economy since interest rates are also skewed. Or a combination of both. Or maybe the gov't is bending the rich over?? But shouldn't the rich know better? Or maybe the gov't knows the rich will be more capable of being evasive so they offset it?? Who knows. I do know we need to cut spending. It's out of control. Maybe if we can do that then maybe we can cut taxes for EVERYONE.

[floridian-will]

That sure is a yummy pic brickell.

I remember Mr. Keys. I always wondered why he didnt get as much attention as Obama.

[Endeavor305]

where are my nocturnal friends?

[Roark]

Originally Posted by floridian-will

Seriously though I guess I probably jumped at that rumor too quick, though I’m sure these big corporations get away with a lot of stuff through loop holes.

Of course. Politicians call them loopholes when they are against it. The people that are getting stung call it interpretation of the existing law.
Seriously.
Think about it with an open mind.
Tax. Taxing. One common definition of tax is

to make onerous and rigorous demands on

Okay, so if Wal Mart has to pay BILLLIONS of dollars of THEIR money, and they employ more people try to save some of their money I don't think it's so nefarious.

If Will, his wife, and neighbor couple went on a trip to the Bahamas, Both families make $60,000 in household income and neither family pays any Income tax in this simplification. Will bought a neckless for $5 on that vacation and came back to the USA and sold it for $20 to a local store. With the same 36% effective tax rate like WalMart has. Will has $15 profit (forget about expenses for this simpification) and has to give $5.40 to the goverment.
The government says, Will you are great American, we appreciate your thinking and eye for a good business deal...you take $9.60 for your efforts, and for all the government is doing for you we will take $5.40 of your profit.
His neighbor and the neighbors wife didn't even think to do that. Instead, they continue to work at their jobs jobs as always.
Now, Will has noticed that millions of people want these necklaces, and he goes through the effort to get a bank loan, takes a risk with his personal gaurantee, and buys one million of the necklaces. T
he government in 2008 wants $5.4 MILLION!! Will is a little pissed.
Wouldn't you be? Will still uses the same roads as his neighbors, he still only has one kid in school using up the bus and the services like his neighbors.
Meanwhile, the neighbors have not produced or provided a single thing extra to society than they did before the trip. They pay Zero, Will pays $5.4 Million.
Will has employed several College kids to help out with his extra demand in the summer. He is buying a warehouse a delivery truck. The neighbors haven't really done much but order more satellite channels so they can sit on their arses.
If will expenses a few things, and uses the current legal framework to keep some of HIS MONEY, I don't think that is bad. You see, it is Will's money. Not the government's money. Will had the idea. Will made the effort. Will executed. He should pay some, but if he works within the law should he be chastized for trying to hold on to his money?
When I was a kid, I used to have an healthy envy for entrepenuers and people that created and produced things. They were the ones that made it. People would move from socialist countries to live the American Dream. Some people would even swim or float on makeshift rafts to live the American Dream.

Originally Posted by floridian-will

And I really disagree with McCain’s stance that raising taxes for the rich will make large corporations want to move to Ireland instead of The U.S.A

Taxes on small businesses...if you consider the burden that labor exacts on human resources it is no wonder that companies outsource their call center work to India. If you make "onerous and rigerous demands on" the human input to a corporate model, the business has a decision to make...if the telecomunications are the same, you look to minimize the less taxing of the input choices.

Originally Posted by floridian-will

I don’t think all rich people are snobby arrogant people and I don’t doubt that alot of rich people are incredibly hard workers, I just doubt that all incredibly hard workers are rich.

Oh you are absolutely correct! Not all...
I used to work construction in the summertime. Curb and Gutter crew, lifting metal forms and leveling the ground. Getting sunburned, dehydrated, cut and scared for 12 + hours a day.
I worked hard, much harder than any of my friends did. The next summer was the ephiphany summer. I worked hard that summer too, but what changed was my attitude.
Daytime construction, nighttime waiting tables. Meeting rich people that appreciated hard working Americans was inspirational.
Back then, hard work, drive, ambition, a grain of intelligence, and sticktoitiveness was priceless.
I don't resent my parents, I don't resent Bill Clinton, and I don't resent John McCain. You work, you produce, and that's it.

Originally Posted by floridian-will

However a few years ago I wouldnt have had to work my way through college. Its not like I grew up poor or anything, my family is in the same situation that a lot of America is in right now, and guess what McCain, we all used to be Joe the f*ck*** plumber.

Really? I've never won any popularity contests on this forum, but that you don't think you sholuld "work your way through college" is disgusting!
Man, I hope I'm not in the minority on this one, or this Change is worse than I thought.
You have the OPPORTUNITY to go to college!!! And you are resentful that you have to work for it??? Do you want it for free? What else, free health care, free foot massages, free food, free beer, free WHAT?!?!?

Originally Posted by floridian-will

I really don’t understand tax hikes and tax cuts though, is there a reason why everyone doesn’t pay the same percentage, wouldn’t that even everything out?

Sorry to rant. It IS very important to understand taxes. Government provides services and you pay for them through the taxes you pay. What is "fair" is what the discussion is all about. Fair is subjective.
When government gets really big, it is hard to even know if you are getting what you pay for.
This post is run on a lot but Google the phrase "regressive taxation" and I'm sure their is the primer you are looking for.