Politics in General (national, international, local, statewide)

[Endeavor305]

Originally Posted by Roark

The question should be would raising taxes, on anyone, or anything, be good for the United States in wartime and with a recession on the horizon.

Obama is going to end the war.

Originally Posted by Roark

But I'll humour you, even though it is obvious and predictable that you will want to change the conversation from what IDEAS are good for country to what they told you about Sarah Palin.

No one has to be told who Sarah Palin is. She showed how unprepared she is in multiple interviews, most notably the Katie Couric one.

Originally Posted by Roark

Again, it should be clear, I don't like big government. I don't like Welfare, corporate or otherwise. And increasing taxes with two wars going on and a recession looming IS NOT a good change.

Two wars? Afghanistan is not a war, that's more like an operation. And again, Obama is going to end the war in Iraq.

[spellbound]

Even the intellectual wing of the GOP can't make valid excuses for Sarah Palin and has had the guts to call it an embarrassing and reckless choice, so I really don't think much more need be said about it.

She revealed more than enough by her own words and actions.

[Endeavor305]

Originally Posted by Roark

Great post Space.
I don't know the guy personally, so I don't know the answer to your question on why people would look up to him.
But I know this. This guy is a private citizen. Why would a political party investigate a private citizen (in the United States I mean, I know why they do it in Cuba, and in communists countries).
Sad politics. Personally, I don't watch much television and haven't follow the whole thing, but it is probably a bad idea for the Obama Campaign and their supporters to use Government computers to hit this guy. Whatever happened to human decency.

hahahaha. This was hilarious. To say that he was investigated is a hint at communism. Man you are pathetic. How does your girlfriend put up with such a moron, I don't know. Do you really even have a girlfriend?

Anyway, of course the guy's going to get looked into, he was mentioned on national television. The people and the media took an interest into this story and so they looked at his PUBLIC record. Obama didn't have his guys follow him. LOL. The fact that McCain didn't rationalize that the truth about Joe Plumber was going to be revealed proves (again) that his judgement is not fit to be president. Has Obama gone on tv and told a story of a citizen that turned out to be 'made up'. No, he's clearly smart enough to not make such a mistake.

Originally Posted by Roark

Yep, exactly. Voting records, Military records, views on the Constitiution, executive experience, maybe even if the candidate spent 20 years in the KKK or in a radical hateful church. Also important to some would be the candidates motivation for achieving the job, is he going to do what is best for the organization, or manipulated the organization for his own personal interest. These types of things may be important to voters and employers.

McCain voted with president Bush approximately 90% of the time.

Originally Posted by Roark

The sad reality Space, is that many people will vote on emotion not logic, and they will vote however their friends vote because of their desparate need to find belonging in a group. When every warm body votes, this is what we get.

I can see a person like yourself voting to fit in with a group. But the grand majority of people will be voting for who they seem best fit and not because they want to belong. Of all the elections from now into the past, this election is one where people will be voting for themselves and not to belong. And the reasons are both emotion and logic. Emotional because people in this country are drained from the rough times they been going through and want to be happy or in peace (retirees). Logical because they will see Obama's policies differ from Bush/McCain when compared side by side. Everything Obama has presented has made sense with the common folk as well as all the experts in economics and foreign policy. It's clear who the better candidate is under the circumstances. We need to change the way things are done in Washington.

Happy Halloween Everyone!

[AddictedToSpace]

Originally Posted by Roark

Me personally? What difference does it make if I approve of something or not personally? And why do you care.
The question should be would raising taxes, on anyone, or anything, be good for the United States in wartime and with a recession on the horizon.
But I'll humour you, even though it is obvious and predictable that you will want to change the conversation from what IDEAS are good for country to what they told you about Sarah Palin.
Gee Space, which ones are you asking about specifically?
If you mean the Excise Taxes that they called Windfall Profit Taxes on domestic oil producer that were enacted in Carter Administration during tough economic times. Recession time, is definitely the wrong time to raise taxes. Enacting those taxes proved to have unintended consequences (like most tax increases do) and they were repealed.
The government taxed domestic oil, and domestic oil companies stopped pumping domestic oil, they just imported foreign oil.
The phrase "Windfall Profit Tax" can be used to mislead people into thinking that corporations "make to much money" don't "pay their share of taxes".

Again, it should be clear, I don't like big government. I don't like Welfare, corporate or otherwise. And increasing taxes with two wars going on and a recession looming IS NOT a good change.

Alaskans to receive $3,269 each

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/516967.html

By RACHEL D'ORO
Associated Press Writer

Published: September 5th, 2008 01:13 PM

It's the season for Alaskans to be rewarded just for living here, and this year's take is extra sweet: $3,269, a record share of the state's oil wealth combined with a special cash payout to help with stratospheric energy prices.

Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell announced today that every eligible man, woman and child will receive $2,069, thanks to dividend payments from the state's oil royalty investment program distributed annually. On top of that, the checks will include another $1,200 from the state treasury to help offset soaring fuel prices.

The one-time energy boost was backed by Gov. Sarah Palin and approved by state lawmakers last month. Palin has since been tapped as the running mate of Republican presidential hopeful John McCain.

"The royalty dollars that flow through the state are the people's wealth," said Parnell. "The $1,200 resource rebate goes to that philosophy."

People must live in Alaska one calendar year to qualify for the payout. For residents in Alaska's rural communities, the money can't arrive at a more crucial time.

"When it gets real cold in winter, it can take five gallons of fuel for heating overnight," said Wanda Sue Page, who lives in the Arctic village of Noatak, where residents pay more than $9 for a gallon of gasoline and nearly $10 for a gallon of heating oil.

"I'm going to fill my 52-gallon tank up to the top and put the heat up real high," Page said. "And when it gets empty, I'm going to fill it again."

Sam Shields, who lives in the Kuskokwim River town of Bethel, also is among the 610,768 people who are receiving the dividend this year. The state's estimated population is just under 680,000 people.

Shields said the money is desperately needed in his community, where he recently saw a whole chicken selling for $23 at the local grocery store. Gasoline is going for almost $6 a gallon, but that price is expected to reach the $8 mark when the last barge of the season delivers its load of fuel.

To make ends meet, Shields and other residents are relying more on subsistence foods like moose and caribou meat, salmon and berries. The state payout is already spoken for, he said, destined to pay for fuel, bills and a new wood-burning stove that should cut down on his heating costs.

"Everyone around here was happy to hear how much we're getting," he said. "Mainly everybody here is saying they're going to use it on fuel."

The fund was established in 1976 after North Slope oil was discovered. Including the upcoming dividends, the fund has since yielded $16.5 billion to Alaskans since the first payout of $1,000 in 1982, according to the state Revenue Department. That's not counting the energy relief money, which alone totals $730 million.

Before this year's bounty, dividend payments ranged from $331 to $1,963 in 2000. Last year's dividend payout was $1,654.

The fund is valued at almost $36 billion, with total returns at a minus-3.6 percent in the fiscal year ending June 30. The poor global economy is blamed for the reduction of the fund's value, according to acting Revenue Commissioner Jerry Burnett.

Dividend amounts have no direct link to oil prices or the fund's value. Oil prices, which sank below $106 a barrel Friday, can boost the fund's principal, but the money must be invested.

Payouts are calculated on a five-year average of investment income from bonds, stock dividends and sales, and other investments.

Direct deposit of the dividends is scheduled earlier than usual this year, Sept. 12, for more than 493,000 people. Paper checks for recipients who want them will be mailed out, starting Sept. 30.

If residents have received a payment every year since the first was issued, their total take in the program would be $29,605. That does not include the energy relief amount.

Wow that sure sounds like a program that McCain/Palin would rip into if it were in a Democrat state or approved by a Democrat Governor.

[Roark]

Saw that coming from a mile away.

Originally Posted by AddictedToSpace

Wow that sure sounds like a program that McCain/Palin would rip into if it were in a Democrat state or approved by a Democrat Governor.

So, you ignored every comment that I made about raising taxes in a recession, but neverless...I'll comment on your post if you have no response for the failed Carter increase in taxes during recession.
Notice the part where is says, "every eligible man, woman and child will receive $2,069"
Not just the Rich, Not just the Poor. Not the just the people that vote for her or don't. EVERY!
EXCELLENT example, you've thrown out there. Here are a couple more quotes from your article.
"The fund was established in 1976 after North Slope oil was discovered."

Originally Posted by AddictedToSpace

Wow that sure sounds like a program that McCain/Palin would rip into if it were in a Democrat state or approved by a Democrat Governor.

Can you give ONE example of a Democrat Governor in a Democrat State EVER reducing the size of government coffers from taking money out of a government account and giving to EVERY man, woman and child EQUALLY?
Just ONE.
If you can find ONE instance, I'm sure that McCain/Palin wouldn't rip into it.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by Endeavor305

The people and the media took an interest into this story and so they looked at his PUBLIC record. Obama didn't have his guys follow him. LOL.

Really? The Columbus Dispatch is reporting those facts differently. Send them a letter and tell them to Trust you, that your facts are better than their facts, and tell them that they are morons.

Checks on 'Joe' more extensive than first acknowledged
Tax, welfare info also sought on McCain ally Wednesday, October 29, 2008 8:05 PM By Randy Ludlow
A state agency has revealed that its checks of computer systems for potential information on "Joe the Plumber" were more extensive than it first acknowledged.
Helen Jones-Kelley, director of the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services, disclosed today that computer inquiries on Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher were not restricted to a child-support system.
Jones-Kelly also has denied any connections between the computer checks on Wurzelbacher and her support for Obama. She donated the maximum $2,500 this year to the Obama campaign.

So, you may LOL and post that it was public information. The article clearly states that a government employee accessed their INTERNAL records.

Most Americans probably wouldn't think that it's not funny for the government to be investigating you because you asked a Candidate a question on TV. We should all be outraged.

Seriously, no mattter what team you are rooting for. Personal attacks and investigations into private citizens backgrounds should be very off limits.

So, I fell for it a couple of times, but won't anymore. Back to staying above the fray and back to the ideas.

[spellbound]

Since we're fishing for 'examples' of things here how about an example---just ONE---of something that has been reported about 'Joe the Plumber" that wasn't, in fact, true.

This is remarkable to me, btw. The suggestion seems to be that a candidate for president of the United States should be able to introduce someone from obscurity to millions of people...literally campaign with this person...spend millions on advertising to keep his name in the news (or are the 'I'm Joe the Plumber' ads not running in Florida?)...and NOT expect that person to receive scrutiny. Completely ludicrous.

It was McCain that put this person on the national stage. It is McCain and his ad team that continues to use 'Joe' as a campaign prop. That he turns out to be not at all what was initially introduced to the public isn't a "hatchet job" but simply reporting the FACTS about the man.

[AddictedToSpace]

Originally Posted by Roark

Saw that coming from a mile away.

So, you ignored every comment that I made about raising taxes in a recession, but neverless...I'll comment on your post if you have no response for the failed Carter increase in taxes during recession.

Jimmy Carter is not running for office, John McCain and Sarah, a heartbeat away, Palin are. You attempt to make a point on the merits of the "Executive Experience" that Palin has and her self proclaimed "Reformer" title yet she is redistributing, or at least approving of, the distribution of wealth in Alaska.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by AddictedToSpace

Jimmy Carter is not running for office, John McCain and Sarah, a heartbeat away, Palin are.

Yes. As you recall. You asked ME what I thought about Windfall Profit Taxes. Remember?
Don't be shocked if when you ask a question, I answer it.
Did you find ONE Democrat Governor yet?
JUST ONE that would take money out of the public coffers and ditribute the money EQUALLY amongst every man, woman, and child?
Just ONE.
If it is taking a lot of time, it's understandable. But stay on topic. I answered you directly about what I thought about Windfall Taxes, Governor Pallin distributing dividends from her state's oil royalty investment program shouldn't be alarming, the fund has been around since 1976.
You stated, " sounds like a program that McCain/Palin would rip into if it were in a Democrat state or approved by a Democrat Governor"
First of all, they probably wouldn't. Secondly, is there and example of a Democrat Governor in a Democrat State ever reducing the size of government by returning money to the taxpayers?
Answer me, can you name ONE.

You know what, Space, I think I've figured it out. You are not really an Obama supporter! Genius! I love it! You are pretending to be an Obama supporter to make them look ill informed and incapable of defending their ideas!
That is soooo good! You know that there is no liberal in the US that is making Government smaller and extending MORE freedom and liberty. You got me....good one!

[Endeavor305]

Notice how McCain and Palin are the ones that came up with calling themselves "mavericks" lol. I think I'm going to do the same. I'm going to walk around town and tell everyone I'm a maverick. Better yet, I'll gonna tell everyone I'm god. Why not? If John McCain can make self-proclamations then I might as well too.

I'll also get people to like me by telling them the incredible story of a guy called Mike the roofer. I'll tell everyone that Mike the roofer used to be poor, but he became the best roofer in town and now has enough money saved up to buy his own business; even though Mike has only $5 in his savings account, no roofing license, no tools, no arms and no legs. I bet people will feel inspired by that story assuming they fall for it. Yea the American people will fall for it because I think they're stupid enough. And if anyone checks up on Mike I'll call them a communist so either way I win right?

The Joe the plumber thing isn't the only instance where the McCain camp has tried to influence voters by feeding them bull s**t. As some of you might have seen, there was a mailer they sent out here in south Florida with a picture of Fidel Castro on it. On the other side it had some crap about McCain being tougher on the Castro regime or something like that. Now that was grade A horse s**t.

[AddictedToSpace]

Originally Posted by Roark

Yes. As you recall. You asked ME what I thought about Windfall Profit Taxes. Remember?
Don't be shocked if when you ask a question, I answer it.
Did you find ONE Democrat Governor yet?
JUST ONE that would take money out of the public coffers and ditribute the money EQUALLY amongst every man, woman, and child?
Just ONE.
If it is taking a lot of time, it's understandable. But stay on topic. I answered you directly about what I thought about Windfall Taxes, Governor Pallin distributing dividends from her state's oil royalty investment program shouldn't be alarming, the fund has been around since 1976.
You stated, " sounds like a program that McCain/Palin would rip into if it were in a Democrat state or approved by a Democrat Governor"
First of all, they probably wouldn't. Secondly, is there and example of a Democrat Governor in a Democrat State ever reducing the size of government by returning money to the taxpayers?
Answer me, can you name ONE.

You know what, Space, I think I've figured it out. You are not really an Obama supporter! Genius! I love it! You are pretending to be an Obama supporter to make them look ill informed and incapable of defending their ideas!
That is soooo good! You know that there is no liberal in the US that is making Government smaller and extending MORE freedom and liberty. You got me....good one!

So now you are saying that distributing the "wealth" equally is OK. If Palin is such a reformer and is so appalled by the idea of redistributing the "wealth" then why hasn't she pushed to have the royalties program stopped? She is the one that claims she will take on the Good Ole' Boys.

Frankly I have not even began to search for a Democrat Governor because I personally think that windfall profit taxes to a certain extent are just fine. I am not attacking the program. I am attacking the hypocrisy of the McCain/Palin camp. Obama has proposed the very thing Alaska began in 1974 and Sarah Palin approves and was attacked for it.

So has the Federal Government gotten any smaller in the past eight years? First six of them with a Republican President, Senate and House I remind you. How does McCain think he will do all he has promised without the support of the Democrats and by standing up to his own party like the Maverick that he claims to be?

Finally, I think I figured you out. You are just an advanced, automated and interactive robocall programmed by Rove, Gingrich or quite possibly even Buchanan.

[spellbound]

So Sarah Palin is the "Great Reformer," eh? A look at some of her actions as governor shows how completely laughable that notion truly is. For example:

* More than 100 appointments to state posts -- nearly 1 in 4 -- went to campaign contributors or their relatives, sometimes without apparent regard to qualifications.

* Palin filled 16 state offices with appointees from families that donated $2,000 to $5,600 and were among her top political patrons.

* Several of Palin's leading campaign donors received state-subsidized industrial development loans of up to $3.6 million for business ventures of questionable public value.

* Palin picked a donor to replace the public safety commissioner she fired. But the new top cop had to resign days later under an ethics cloud. And Palin drew a formal ethics complaint still pending against her and several aides for allegedly helping another donor and fundraiser land a state job.

And let's not forget her penchant for hiring her high-school chums (at least a half-dozen at last count) for cushy state jobs at publically-financed salaries that far exceeded their private sector wages. No doubt they are all highly qualified---such as Alaska's current director of the State Division of Agriculture---a Palin school buddy who cited her "childhood love of cows" as a qualification for running the agency (along with the $95,000 salary it comes with).

Sarah Palin is a reformer? She's a political hack.

[AddictedToSpace]

McCain and Palin continue their laughable and ludicrous guilty by association accusations with Obama's "ties" to Rashid Khalidi. Now, it seems that this Khalidi with his "ties" to the PLO received over $400,000 from John McCain back in 1998. So I guess this means that McCain also pals around, no finances, terrorists and anti-semitic individuals.

"In regards to Khalidi, however, the guilt-by-association game burns John McCain as well.

During the 1990s, while he served as chairman of the International Republican Institute (IRI), McCain distributed several grants to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi, including one worth half a million dollars.

A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi's Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank. (See grant number 5180, "West Bank: CPRS" on page 14 of this PDF.)"

-http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_138606.html

[Endeavor305]

Originally Posted by AddictedToSpace

Finally, I think I figured you out. You are just an advanced, automated and interactive robocall programmed by Rove, Gingrich or quite possibly even Buchanan.

LOL. Brilliant! That was one of the funniest & wittiest things I've read here. It sure feels that way. Cheers!

[FIDEL CASTRO]

by Mark Silva
Barack Obama is getting a boost from Hispanic voters in early voting in South Florida, according to exit-polling that shows strong margins for the Democratic candidate among traditionally Republican voters.
If margins such as these hold true on Election Day in the Miami area, Obama could have a strong claim to Florida's 27 electoral votes.
The exit polling of 8,683 voters leaving most of the county's early-voting sites between Oct. 20-29 was sponsored by the political science class of Associate Professor Mike Abrams at the University of Miami and financed by Bendixen & Associates, a long-established polling firm working as a consultant to the Obama campaign.
The ability of any Democrat to claim a sizeable share of the Hispanic vote in South Florida is part of any winning formula there. The exit polling found winning numbers:
-- 60 percent of those voting early were Hispanic, in a county with a 55-percent Hispanic electorate.
-- Among all Hispanics voting, Obama was favored by 47 percent, McCain 53.
-- Among Cuban-born Hispanics, McCain 69 percent, Obama 31.
-- Among U.S.-born Hispanics, Obama 72 percent, McCain 28.
-- Among white, Anglo voters, Obama 64 percent, McCain 36.
-- Among African-American voters, Obama 98 percent.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/po...strong_in.html

[Roark]

Originally Posted by AddictedToSpace

So now you are saying that distributing the "wealth" equally is OK. If Palin is such a reformer and is so appalled by the idea of redistributing the "wealth" then why hasn't she pushed to have the royalties program stopped?

You are confusing what wealth redistribution is with that Alaska example.
Regardless, Presidential Candidate Obama feels it is okay to take property from some citzens to give it to others that HE feels have been underrepresented.
It's taking from wealthy and redistributing to others unequally.
You can't make this stuff up: Please listen to Obama in his own words.

I am attacking the hypocrisy of the McCain/Palin camp. Obama has proposed the very thing Alaska began in 1974 and Sarah Palin approves and was attacked for it.

NO, that is not true. Obama takes from wealthy people/corporations and gives a tax credit to 95% of workers (so he says, forget that 95% of workers don't pay any income taxes to begin with).
Not all. Not equally. It's different.
Alaska has as a part of their Constitution this natural resources fund. The state has a surplus. Excellent! Give the money back to people. All of the people equally.
The ideas are different. Should be obvious.

Originally Posted by AddictedToSpace

So has the Federal Government gotten any smaller in the past eight years?

No! Do you even read what I write? The government has grown way to big, I've posted it over and over and over. Bush spent like a drunken sailor and it's awful.
McCain for his part voted against the Prescription Medicine Entitlement program, the largest entitlement ever.
Spending should be cut drastically, taxes should be lowered, and industry should be allowed to flurish and create jobs.

So, you gave up on finding ONE Democrat Governor that would pay out money from the coffers equally and to all. It's because they don't do it.

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by Roark

You are confusing what wealth redistribution is with that Alaska example.
Regardless, Presidential Candidate Obama feels it is okay to take property from some citzens to give it to others that HE feels have been underrepresented.
It's taking from wealthy and redistributing to others unequally.
You can't make this stuff up: Please listen to Obama in his own words.
NO, that is not true. Obama takes from wealthy people/corporations and gives a tax credit to 95% of workers (so he says, forget that 95% of workers don't pay any income taxes to begin with).
Not all. Not equally. It's different.
Alaska has as a part of their Constitution this natural resources fund. The state has a surplus. Excellent! Give the money back to people. All of the people equally.
The ideas are different. Should be obvious.
No! Do you even read what I write? The government has grown way to big, I've posted it over and over and over. Bush spent like a drunken sailor and it's awful.
McCain for his part voted against the Prescription Medicine Entitlement program, the largest entitlement ever.
Spending should be cut drastically, taxes should be lowered, and industry should be allowed to flurish and create jobs.

So, you gave up on finding ONE Democrat Governor that would pay out money from the coffers equally and to all. It's because they don't do it.

Roark, you must truly be exhausted after all this.

[AddictedToSpace]

Originally Posted by Roark

You are confusing what wealth redistribution is with that Alaska example.
Regardless, Presidential Candidate Obama feels it is okay to take property from some citzens to give it to others that HE feels have been underrepresented.
It's taking from wealthy and redistributing to others unequally.
You can't make this stuff up: Please listen to Obama in his own words.
NO, that is not true. Obama takes from wealthy people/corporations and gives a tax credit to 95% of workers (so he says, forget that 95% of workers don't pay any income taxes to begin with).
Not all. Not equally. It's different.
Alaska has as a part of their Constitution this natural resources fund. The state has a surplus. Excellent! Give the money back to people. All of the people equally.
The ideas are different. Should be obvious.
No! Do you even read what I write?

If you mean your Bullshit, then no, I don't read what you post.

Originally Posted by Roark

The government has grown way to big, I've posted it over and over and over. Bush spent like a drunken sailor and it's awful.
McCain for his part voted against the Prescription Medicine Entitlement program, the largest entitlement ever.
Spending should be cut drastically, taxes should be lowered, and industry should be allowed to flurish and create jobs.

So, you gave up on finding ONE Democrat Governor that would pay out money from the coffers equally and to all. t's because they don't do it.

If McCain has all the answers like how to win in Iraq, find and Kill Osama Bin Laden and fix the economy why has he not shared this insight with George Bush right NOW so it can all be corrected? If he loses will he keep all his answers to himself?

[FIDEL CASTRO]

2 months ago you all were happy. "Nice post Roark", "that's true addicted","Nice photos", etc.....were some of the many statements you used to find here.

[Roark]

Originally Posted by AddictedToSpace

If you mean your Bullshit, then no, I don't read what you post.

Ahhh...you are a gentleman. Your parents should be very proud of what a well mannered, civil human being you have become.
How about the Public Radio Interview from Barrack Obama where he calls the United States Constitutions a charter of "Negative Liberties" and where he says that the Supreme Court didn't address "redistributive change".
Here it is again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck

What does Obama mean by redistributive change as it relates to the civil rights movement?

Yes, Quantum, it's exhausting! Fun when the conversation is respectful and intellectual. Exhausting when it denegrates to name calling, sophmoric banter, and neglect for reality.