ENGLAND - Rugby World Cup 2015

[Rascar]

There will definately be some emptier games, some of the lesser known teams just won't attract the crowds so send them to Leicester or kingsholm or Southampton (or Brighton) and fill them

The most recent equivalent world cup was France 2007 which sold very well, and the Olympics showed the public appetite for big sports events. I think the tournament could sell very well, though unfortunately stadia being skewed towards London and the North and not the Midlands and South West will not help.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Rascar

The most recent equivalent world cup was France 2007 which sold very well

Precisely. The four games between the bottom two teams in each pool were pretty well attended in 2007 - we should be able to do just as well as the French public:

Pool A - USA v Tonga: 25,000 @ Montpellier (33,900)
Pool B - Canada v Japan: 33,810 @ Bordeaux (34,440)
Pool C - Romania v Portugal: 35,526 @ Toulouse (35,700)
Pool D - Georgia v Namibia: 32,549 @ Lens (41,400)

I think the tournament could sell very well, though unfortunately stadia being skewed towards London and the North and not the Midlands and South West will not help.

The stadia are "skewed" that way because that's where the large stadia are - Villa Park is the only 40,000+ stadium in the Midlands and there aren't any that hold more than 25,000 in the whole South West (which is why the Millennium Stadium is in the equation).

[Andy-i]

A couple of thoughts,

Wales and the MS:
I'm pretty sure the organisers have said that Wales wont play any group games in the MS, due to complaints from other unions, that they have always played games there during previous RWC's.

Olympic Stadium:
I think it may be dropped from the list, as it will probably still be undergoing reconstruction up until the RWC and it would be very risky to include a stadium that may not be ready.
Also even if finished its capacity will be around 60K, not the 80K lots of people keep mentioning and it will be crap for watching Football or Rugby.

[Rascar]

The stadia are "skewed" that way because that's where the large stadia are - Villa Park is the only 40,000+ stadium in the Midlands and there aren't any that hold more than 25,000 in the whole South West (which is why the Millennium Stadium is in the equation).

Of course I appreciate that, it would just have been nice if a few other club grounds like Northampton and Exeter were used, despite their capacities. I hope Villa Park and Coventry get a reasonable number of games, they're not the most glamourous of stadia but they serve a larger more rugby orientated population than the likes of St James Park.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Rascar

Of course I appreciate that, it would just have been nice if a few other club grounds like Northampton and Exeter were used, despite their capacities.

I disagree. Using a 15,000 capacity (which both currently fall below) club ground would mean that either the locals who follow that club or fans who want to travel to England to follow their team can't get tickets. The club grounds are too small.

I hope Villa Park and Coventry get a reasonable number of games, they're not the most glamourous of stadia but they serve a larger more rugby orientated population than the likes of St James Park.

What do you mean a "more rugby-orientated population"?

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Andy-i

Olympic Stadium:
I think it may be dropped from the list, as it will probably still be undergoing reconstruction up until the RWC and it would be very risky to include a stadium that may not be ready.
Also even if finished its capacity will be around 60K, not the 80K lots of people keep mentioning and it will be crap for watching Football or Rugby.

I think it should be dropped - Twickenham and Wembley should be sufficient for London.

[Rascar]

What do you mean a "more rugby-orientated population"?

A bit too judgemental on my part perhaps, but domestic crowds and anecdotal evidence suggest there would be more demand for tickets in the Midlands than the North East. Also there are many more people within 2 hours drive.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Rascar

A bit too judgemental on my part perhaps, but domestic crowds and anecdotal evidence suggest there would be more demand for tickets in the Midlands than the North East.

Only in that it has a larger population. I wouldn't say that the North East is any less "rugby country" than the West Midlands. Neither hold a candle to the East Midlands though, obviously.

[Kobo]

Here is a newspaper article on what stadiums should be used:http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog...ds-fun-passion

[Leedsrule]

And updates to these pools (Like have any others qualifuied yet?)

Pool A: Australia, England, Wales, Oceania 1, play-off winner
Pool B: South Africa, Samoa, Scotland, Asia 1, Americas 2
Pool C: New Zealand, Argentina, Tonga, Europe 1, Africa 1
Pool D: France, Ireland, Italy, Americas 1, Europe

Its a shame the olympic stadium will be in the middle of renovation for the wc because i think thatd be a great use for it. But assuming it wont be used-

I think the venues should be:

London
Wembley
Twickenham- Both these are obvious choices
Emirates Stadium- I could imagine it would be really good for rugby, and there is lots of space behind the goals so they wouldnt need a shortened try zone here.

South Coast
AMEX Stadium- After visiting it recently I think it would be a better option than the flat- pack st marys stadium.

South West
Kingsholm- Like said in the article, they need at least one proper club stadium.

Wales
Millenium- obviously.

Midlands
Arena MK- Upgraded to 32k ideally, seems a good choice to me.
Pride Park- Still not sure between this and coventry, but it seems good enough.

The North
Old Trafford- I dont like it, id rather see the city of manchester, but will surely be picked.
Elland Road

The Very North
St James Park- Should get the nod ahead of Stadium of light.

And if 12 are used then Villa Park or SOL should be used. Or maybe St marys.


Britain is small enough so the pools dont need to be regionalised, so I doubt there will be a northern pool, a london pool ect.

The big pool games should obviously be played at the larger venues, like this:

Australia v England: Twickenham
Wales v Australia: Old Trafford
England v Wales: Twickenham
Other England Games: St James' Park and Old Trafford
South Africa v Scotland: Wembley
Samoa v South Africa: Elland Road
Scotland v Samoa: St James' Park
New Zealand v Argentina: Emirates Stadium
Tonga v Argentina: AMEX Stadium
New Zealand v Tonga: Millenium Stadium
France v Ireland: Wembley
Ireland v Italy: Twickenham
Italy v France: Millenium Stadium

And all the smaller games shared between the others.
Then in the knockout rounds, Twickenham, Elland Road, The Millenium and ST James' Park should be used in the QFs, The Wembley and Twickenham in the semi final, and Twickenham for the Final (And maybe the 3rd place playoff, or maybe that should go to Wembley or Old Trafford, probably the latter).

[Walbanger]

Pool A is so ridiculously hard, all while South Africa and New Zealand will piss fart their way through the group stages without having to pull their socks up.

Either the latter 2 will benefit from being relatively fresh for the quarter finals or the likes of Aus, Eng, Wales, Fra and Ire will be battle hardened and ready.
If Australia remains anything like they currently are, they may find it hard to reach the knockout stages. The British and Irish Lions are going to eat the Wallabies a new arsehole this year.

[CharlieP]

Exeter's Sandy Park has been added to the long list, thanks to the uncertainty over what's happening to Ashton Gate in Bristol with the problems Bristol City have had in moving to a new stadium.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21659189

Capacity is expected to be 12,000 by 2015, but to me that's way too small for a Rugby World Cup venue - 25,000 should be the minimum. It's a right quandary as the South West is a hotbed of rugby, but doesn't have any large venues.

[copa olympic]

Plan to use Olympic Stadium at 2015 World Cup may lead to extended deadline for final submission of venues

Rugby World Cup organisers may be given more time to submit their final list of venues for the 2015 tournament if it means the Olympic Stadium being available, Telegraph Sport has learnt.


Iconic venue: having the Olympic Stadium as a 2015 World Cup ground would help organisers fulfil an £80 million revenue pledge Photo: EPA

By Ben Rumsby 4:40AM GMT 06 Mar 2013

The England 2015 board met on Tuesday to discuss a preferred list of stadiums and match schedule for rugby’s showpiece event, with the inclusion of the London 2012 stadium still not decided.

An 18-strong long list – 17 announced in October and one on Monday – was expected to be whittled down to 12 tournament venues in time for submission to the International Rugby Board in Dublin on March 15.

However, it is understood the IRB would consider waiting for final confirmation if organisers requested an extension to get the Olympic Stadium on board.

March 15 could come too soon for a deal to be done to include it, with West Ham co-chairman David Gold claiming on Monday that an agreement over his club’s anchor tenancy of the 80,000-seat arena would not be signed until at least the following day.

Confirmation of West Ham’s relocation would allow plans to be cemented for a three-year, £190 million redevelopment of the venue, which would need to be paused in 2015 for rugby to be played there.

The London Legacy Development Corporation, which owns the stadium, England 2015 and the IRB are all extremely eager to find a way to include the iconic arena on the final list for the World Cup, not least because organisers need to sell as many tickets as possible to fulfil an £80 million revenue pledge.

Construction schedules agreed between the LLDC and West Ham could ultimately determine the viability of staging the tournament in Stratford in 2015.

The stadium would need to be in the kind of shape to host matches of an international standard, such as ensuring the provision of corporate hospitality.

A public announcement on the World Cup match schedule and venues had been expected by the end of the month and it remains to be seen if any extension granted by the IRB would mean a delay.

Organisers on Tuesday refused to comment on the outcome of their board meeting and it is understood all potential venues had already been sent emails denying any final decision had been taken.

However, the addition of Exeter’s Sandy Park to the long list on Monday is understood to be with its likely inclusion in mind at the expense of Bristol City’s Ashton Gate.

The Telegraph

[Harry1990]

If exter are going to be chosen couldnt the RFU fully fund the expansion to 20k instead of Exeter's current plans to a stand at a time, they say its going to be 12k at the time

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Harry1990

If exter are going to be chosen couldnt the RFU fully fund the expansion to 20k instead of Exeter's current plans to a stand at a time, they say its going to be 12k at the time

Why should the RFU pay to develop one particular club's ground? Or, put another way, why should one particular club have its development funded by the RFU, when all other clubs have to put their hands in their own pockets?

[Harry1990]

Because they have asked exeter to provide there ground at last minute incase bristol become unavailable , why should exeter be entitled for help in expanding there ground

[Andy-i]

Originally Posted by copa olympic

Plan to use Olympic Stadium at 2015 World Cup may lead to extended deadline for final submission of venues

Rugby World Cup organisers may be given more time to submit their final list of venues for the 2015 tournament if it means the Olympic Stadium being available, Telegraph Sport has learnt.


Iconic venue: having the Olympic Stadium as a 2015 World Cup ground would help organisers fulfil an £80 million revenue pledge Photo: EPA

By Ben Rumsby 4:40AM GMT 06 Mar 2013

The England 2015 board met on Tuesday to discuss a preferred list of stadiums and match schedule for rugby’s showpiece event, with the inclusion of the London 2012 stadium still not decided.

An 18-strong long list – 17 announced in October and one on Monday – was expected to be whittled down to 12 tournament venues in time for submission to the International Rugby Board in Dublin on March 15.

However, it is understood the IRB would consider waiting for final confirmation if organisers requested an extension to get the Olympic Stadium on board.

March 15 could come too soon for a deal to be done to include it, with West Ham co-chairman David Gold claiming on Monday that an agreement over his club’s anchor tenancy of the 80,000-seat arena would not be signed until at least the following day.

Confirmation of West Ham’s relocation would allow plans to be cemented for a three-year, £190 million redevelopment of the venue, which would need to be paused in 2015 for rugby to be played there.

The London Legacy Development Corporation, which owns the stadium, England 2015 and the IRB are all extremely eager to find a way to include the iconic arena on the final list for the World Cup, not least because organisers need to sell as many tickets as possible to fulfil an £80 million revenue pledge.

Construction schedules agreed between the LLDC and West Ham could ultimately determine the viability of staging the tournament in Stratford in 2015.

The stadium would need to be in the kind of shape to host matches of an international standard, such as ensuring the provision of corporate hospitality.

A public announcement on the World Cup match schedule and venues had been expected by the end of the month and it remains to be seen if any extension granted by the IRB would mean a delay.

Organisers on Tuesday refused to comment on the outcome of their board meeting and it is understood all potential venues had already been sent emails denying any final decision had been taken.

However, the addition of Exeter’s Sandy Park to the long list on Monday is understood to be with its likely inclusion in mind at the expense of Bristol City’s Ashton Gate.

The Telegraph

Cant see it happening, this story gets recycled every now and then. West Ham arn't due to move in until the start of the 2016/17 season and the RWC is being held in Sep/Oct of 2015.

Its highly unlikely it will ready 8 months early and there is no way on earth they will delay the start of the conversion until after the RWC.

Its not really needed anyway, as they already have Twickenham and Wembley, which are much bigger as the OS is going to be 60K, not 80K post reconfiguration.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Harry1990

Because they have asked exeter to provide there ground at last minute incase bristol become unavailable , why should exeter be entitled for help in expanding there ground

I can't tell what you're trying to say there, and not just because of the spelling mistakes.

[Harry1990]

i was in lecture and trying not to get caught typing a message, basically i said that the RFU has asked exeter to step in as a contingency incase Bristol cannot be used. Exeter are currently doing a peicemeal upgrade of Sandy Park with i think 3 stands being upgraded for a final capacity of 20,000ish seats. Surely if it gets chosen the RFU could step in and provide finance to build the full expansion to 20k by 2015, Id imagine they recoup there money in the long run through tickets in the Tournament

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Harry1990

i was in lecture and trying not to get caught typing a message, basically i said that the RFU has asked exeter to step in as a contingency incase Bristol cannot be used. Exeter are currently doing a peicemeal upgrade of Sandy Park with i think 3 stands being upgraded for a final capacity of 20,000ish seats. Surely if it gets chosen the RFU could step in and provide finance to build the full expansion to 20k by 2015, Id imagine they recoup there money in the long run through tickets in the Tournament

The RFU haven't "asked exeter to step in as a contingency incase Bristol cannot be used", the Rugby World Cup organising committee (not the same thing!) have added Sandy Park to the long list of venues before finally announcing the final list this year, two years before the World Cup. You're spinning it as though Exeter are having their arms twisted to do the organisers a massive favour, when they applied to be a host venue in the first place!

Exeter are doing a staged upgrade because (a) their crowds need to grow first (they're not filling Sandy Park consistently at the moment) and (b) they need to continue playing while development continues. Having a capacity of 4,000 next season because there's building work on three sides would affect their revenue and ability to do business.

Increasing from 10,744 to 20,600 will cost a lot of money (Exeter are hoping to get finance to fund this) - there's no way that the cost would be met by the ticket sales from two or three pool matches, even though they would be sold out.

There's also my original point that RFU money shouldn't be used to give a professional club a massive leg-up - doing so would piss off a lot of grassroots clubs, not just the rest of the Premiership...