ENGLAND - Rugby World Cup 2015

[Its AlL gUUd]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

The Rugby World Cup has arguably already outgrown New Zealand - attendance will drop next year as the stadia simply aren't big enough. They even made a point of this in their bid, saying that if they didn't get it now they'd never get the chance again...

Australia, England, France, Italy, Japan and South Africa are all capable of hosting by themselves, and there's nothing to stop unions like Russia or the USA throwing their hat into the ring in the future...

I agree and i think thats why IRB chose England to host in 2015 rather then Japan as they wanted it back in a country where the attendance will be up and will be commercially viable before they head off to new shores to spread the game, lets not forget it is still a new tournament. i just mentioned NZ because at least they made an effort to go it alone unlike France.

[Kobo]

What does everyone think about the likely hood of Bristol getting chosen as a late venue for 2015 RFU W.C providing Bristol City build their new stadium in time? It could be a Bristol / Bath bid, as teams could use Bath University as a training base as they have world class sporting facilities and then use a stadium in Bristol for the matches.

Stadiums they could use in Bristol:

image hosted on flickr


Bristol City's new ground 30,000 (Expandable to 42,000.)

or



Bristol Rovers & Bristol Rugby clubs new ground 18,500.

[aaronaugi1]

I haven't know Bristol to be a particularly important rugby city. Unlike Huddersfield and Leeds

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by aaronaugi1

I haven't know Bristol to be a particularly important rugby city. Unlike Huddersfield and Leeds

Different rugby. Bristol is also sandwiched between English and Welsh heartlands, so I guess it's default.

[Pimpmaster]

Originally Posted by aaronaugi1

I haven't know Bristol to be a particularly important rugby city. Unlike Huddersfield and Leeds

huddersfield and leeds are rugby league towns. different to union

[CharlieP]

The International Rugby Board used to be based in Bristol, until they moved to Dublin for tax reasons.

[Andy-i]

Originally Posted by bigbossman

Coventry is a big rugby city iirc, or it used to be.

Bristol isn't really as big a rugby city as people think, Bristol Rovers (the second football club of the city) are bigger than the local rugby club!

Bristol are top of the Championship (2nd Div of Rugby in England) with an average gate of 5356.

Coventry are second bottom of the Championship with an average gate of 1282.
They have also gone into Administration (Bust) this season due to a lack of funds (poor support etc)

I'd say Bristol is a bigger rugby town than Coventry

Although its also fair to say that Football is bigger in both!
Coventry City FC: average gate 17483
Bristol City FC: average gate 14364
Bristol Rovers FC: average gate 7170

Also to the posters who keeps suggesting they will tear seats up at OT to host a couple of games in the RWC, get real!
Man utd fill it over 20 times a season so why mess up their ground to host a couple of RU games?

[ccfc-4-life]

Originally Posted by Andy-i

Bristol are top of the Championship (2nd Div of Rugby in England) with an average gate of 5356.

Coventry are second bottom of the Championship with an average gate of 1282.
They have also gone into Administration (Bust) this season due to a lack of funds (poor support etc)

I'd say Bristol is a bigger rugby town than Coventry

Bristol

Have just come down from the top league where they had large gates and plenty of money, they are high flying at the top of the league and have a large stadium to play in. Gates of 5,000 in an 11,000 capacity ground with a popular winning team - yes yes very good.

Coventry

Havent been in the top league for years and when the club was up there the sport was hardly popular at club level even for the top teams compared to today, so even when the club was doing well, the domestic leagues were not. They are absolutely skint, play in a ground with a capacity of 3,000 (not 4,000 anymore, temporary stand was removed) with an average of about 1200. The club is second from the foot of the table and staring relegation in the face.

Why have I just repeated what you posted? Because youre implying that Coventry does not have sporting tradition because of what is currently happening with 2 clubs - and because with these stats I say Cov arent doing that bad.

2nd from Bottem - av. 1200 from 3,000 capacity stadium
top - av. 5000 from 11,000 capacity stadium

Both teams are playing in half empty stadiums and you cannot blame Coventry's financial situation on the support. The league has just turned professional and the club cant afford to addapt from amateur status.

I dont know which city has more rugby tradition but as somebody from Coventry and from the midlands I can say that rugby is very big here, while still not as popular as football. Anyway Im not a Coventry RFC supporter but felt they needed defending there.

[Andy-i]

ccfc:

I wasn't having go at coventry rfc in any way, just pointing out that the rugby club does not have a very high profile/support at the moment in comparison with Bristol CURRENTLY, in reply to the OP I quoted.

To be brutally honest, my local footy team play in level 8 of the pyramid and average bigger crowds than coventry RFC. I dont think any fully pro club in any code is viable with those gates.

As for rugby in the midlands:

It's popular in the east midlands with Leicester and Northampton but in the west midlands only worcester have any real support.
Moseley and B/S bees get less than 1000 per game and coventry's gates have been discussed.
It's dwarfed by football in the midlands west of the M1.

[aaronaugi1]

Originally Posted by Pimpmaster

huddersfield and leeds are rugby league towns. different to union

Ah ok. I obviously understand the difference between the two types of rugby but was unaware that league was played in places that didn't have union support also.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by aaronaugi1

Ah ok. I obviously understand the difference between the two types of rugby but was unaware that league was played in places that didn't have union support also.

League definitely has a "heartland" of Cumbria, Lancashire, West and East Yorkshire, whereas union support is more evenly spread throughout the country but slightly "bottom-heavy". So Huddersfield and Leeds RL clubs are the biggest oval ball clubs in their respective areas, but that doesn't make them union deserts, with Leeds in the Championship, Huddersfield, Morley and Otley in the National Leagues and lots of amateur sides in Leeds...

[CharlieP]

On the topic of Coventry, they definitely were a big club back in the 1960s and 1970s, winning two of the first three John Player Cup finals. David Duckham is their most famous England cap. Sadly, by the time the leagues came round they've always just been outside the "top table" of English clubs trying to get back in.

[ccfc-4-life]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

On the topic of Coventry, they definitely were a big club back in the 1960s and 1970s, winning two of the first three John Player Cup finals. David Duckham is their most famous England cap. Sadly, by the time the leagues came round they've always just been outside the "top table" of English clubs trying to get back in.

Yes exactly.

Such a shame because back then the rugby club was gain such a large popularty across the city. Im afraid those times have passed and I dont see Cov gong back up any time soon.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

Sadly, by the time the leagues came round they've always just been outside the "top table" of English clubs trying to get back in.

Sorry, that wasn't very good English - I think I completely edited half that sentence but didn't check I'd used the same tense as the other half...

[ccfc-4-life]

Originally Posted by Andy-i

ccfc:

I wasn't having go at coventry rfc in any way, just pointing out that the rugby club does not have a very high profile/support at the moment in comparison with Bristol CURRENTLY, in reply to the OP I quoted.

Oh I know and maybe I should have worded my response a bit better. I was simply correcting a bit of misleading information.

Originally Posted by Andy-i

To be brutally honest, my local footy team play in level 8 of the pyramid and average bigger crowds than coventry RFC. I dont think any fully pro club in any code is viable with those gates.

And teams in league 1 get higher gates than most of the top rugby clubs in the country, those stats are no shocker. No, you're right no rugby club that is fully pro is viable with those gates - but what about teams that have been pro for less than 6 months? Given a bit of time and a hell of a lot of improvement from the teams, attendances could improve. To criticise at this point any club in the championship is silly IMO - Although you are right.

Originally Posted by Andy-i

As for rugby in the midlands:

It's popular in the east midlands with Leicester and Northampton but in the west midlands only worcester have any real support.

Are you basing this on which teams are in the Guinness Premiership?

Leicester are a huge rugby club and have gained so much success over the past few years just when club rugby was starting to take off - the club couldn't have picked a better time grow like they did.

Northampton are the very definition of a Rugby town. The saints are the dominating sports club there and Rugby definately takes centre-stage over football, which is helped by their local team not really making a mark in the football leagues.

Worcester are similar but have nowhere near the support of the saints or the tigers. Worcester are nothing special IMO just a normal rugby club that has reached the top league. Expect attendances similar to Bristol's current position or lower if the club ever get relegated.

I may as well just say that if clubs like Coventry, Exter, Nottingham, Plymouth, Pirates, Bedford etc ever got promoted they could all easily fill 10,000 capacity stadiums every game (not so sure about pirates I dont know too much about them)

Originally Posted by Andy-i

Moseley and B/S bees get less than 1000 per game and coventry's gates have been discussed.
It's dwarfed by football in the midlands west of the M1.

With all of the midlands top football clubs in the top 2 leagues in the football pyramid and each with a vast history of good support and top league status, of course football dominates, and it always will.

The two Birmingham clubs you mentioned will never get high attendances, Birmingham has never really been a hot spot for rugby union.

Have you actually been to the midlands? Or the Coventry area? Coventry RFC still has many supporters who still claim links to the club, but club rugby at the second level is not attractive enough for people to attend matches - especially because the city also has a prominant football history with the local team in the CCC.

About a year ago when the rugby club faced liquidation, thousands of supporters raised money for the club and if I heard right, £55,000 was raised between £35,000+ people. People still care about club rugby in the west midlands and I do hope the club game is reintroduced into the top league here.

[Pat Mustard]

[QUOTE][/I wasn't having go at coventry rfc in any way, just pointing out that the rugby club does not have a very high profile/support at the moment in comparison with Bristol CURRENTLY, in reply to the OP I quoted.

To be brutally honest, my local footy team play in level 8 of the pyramid and average bigger crowds than coventry RFC. I dont think any fully pro club in any code is viable with those gates.

As for rugby in the midlands:

It's popular in the east midlands with Leicester and Northampton but in the west midlands only worcester have any real support.
Moseley and B/S bees get less than 1000 per game and coventry's gates have been discussed.
It's dwarfed by football in the midlands west of the M1. QUOTE]

I don't think it's fair to say that Rugby isn't popular in Coventry and the West Midlands generally. The professional game doesn't really have any representation other than Worcester, but around Birmingham and Coventry there are plenty of thriving amateur clubs. Were Moseley or Coventry ever to get the amount of investment required to make the top level, then I am certain you would see crowds that are at least comparable to those the likes of Leeds, Sale and the London clubs get.

I'd also say that in terms of crowds, there are very few places where Rugby clubs get as many or more than the equivalent football teams. Even in places like Cardiff and Swansea successful rugby clubs struggle to get crowds that are any better than the Championship football clubs that share their stadia.

[ccfc-4-life]

[QUOTE=Pat Mustard;51730565]

[/I wasn't having go at coventry rfc in any way, just pointing out that the rugby club does not have a very high profile/support at the moment in comparison with Bristol CURRENTLY, in reply to the OP I quoted.

To be brutally honest, my local footy team play in level 8 of the pyramid and average bigger crowds than coventry RFC. I dont think any fully pro club in any code is viable with those gates.

As for rugby in the midlands:

It's popular in the east midlands with Leicester and Northampton but in the west midlands only worcester have any real support.
Moseley and B/S bees get less than 1000 per game and coventry's gates have been discussed.
It's dwarfed by football in the midlands west of the M1. QUOTE]

I don't think it's fair to say that Rugby isn't popular in Coventry and the West Midlands generally. The professional game doesn't really have any representation other than Worcester, but around Birmingham and Coventry there are plenty of thriving amateur clubs. Were Moseley or Coventry ever to get the amount of investment required to make the top level, then I am certain you would see crowds that are at least comparable to those the likes of Leeds, Sale and the London clubs get.

I'd also say that in terms of crowds, there are very few places where Rugby clubs get as many or more than the equivalent football teams. Even in places like Cardiff and Swansea successful rugby clubs struggle to get crowds that are any better than the Championship football clubs that share their stadia.

Spot on.

Thats exactly the point I was trying to get across. You just did it better.

[gavstar00]

I don't think it's fair to say that Rugby isn't popular in Coventry and the West Midlands generally. The professional game doesn't really have any representation other than Worcester, but around Birmingham and Coventry there are plenty of thriving amateur clubs. Were Moseley or Coventry ever to get the amount of investment required to make the top level, then I am certain you would see crowds that are at least comparable to those the likes of Leeds, Sale and the London clubs get.

I'd also say that in terms of crowds, there are very few places where Rugby clubs get as many or more than the equivalent football teams. Even in places like Cardiff and Swansea successful rugby clubs struggle to get crowds that are any better than the Championship football clubs that share their stadia.

I agree with that point but is there a case missing out on a golden opportunity for developing rugby as a whole with this competition? I know its been said previously but I think the RFU really had a duty to look to developing club rugby grounds as a legacy from the tournament, a duty they look to have ignored in favour of making more money with less outlay in terms of money using existing, larger non rugby specific stadiums.

Granted you are never going to get 40-50k attendance at the likes of a Harlequins game for example, but surely temporary expansion of existing club rugby stadiums, including permanent corporate facilities should have seriously taken in account? At least that way, long term, you can bring more money into the sport (unfortunately a necessary evil nowadays) and develop the sport further as a whole in the country?

[Andy-i]

Originally Posted by Andy-i
As for rugby in the midlands:
It's popular in the east midlands with Leicester and Northampton but in the west midlands only worcester have any REAL support.


By that, I mean people actually turning out to watch games.

I'm sure there a lots of small rugby clubs in the area as throughout England.
However the fact remains that the clubs i mentioned in the 2nd tier of english rugby still get pitifully small crowds.

I'd also be highly dubious of the abilty of some teams in the championship to pull in crowds over 10K every week in the GP. That equates to a 1000% increase.
I think some would be delighted with 5K like Leeds and Newcastle get.

[Andy-i]

Originally Posted by ccfc-4-life

Oh To criticise at this point any club in the championship is silly IMO - Although you are right.

TBH I'd put most of the blame for the problems of the championship at the door the RFU.
They failed to find any sponsorship and came up with a league structure which does'nt punish clubs for living way beyond their means.
However some clubs have been less than prudent.

If your interested in the views of fans of clubs in the championship take a look here:
http://www.rolling-maul.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=1
Its a very good and honest forum.