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Old January 27th, 2012, 10:37 PM   #541
empyrion
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my castle, yours, identity that wasnt, identity that was, you steal, I steal, we all steal,

But in the end we are all just one big European nation

Awesome castles by the way! Love the Eastern European architecture.
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Old January 27th, 2012, 10:58 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
Me too. But with Książ it's a missed shot, as the castle was originally built in XIII cent. by Duke Bolko Surowy (Bolko the Strict) of the Polish Piast dynasty.



No battle so far... But we could start one: I love Polish castles in Ukraine.
.

not quite. It remains unclear who errected it, but we know that it gained its major additions under German aristocrats. And from the earliest reports of it existence on in the 13th century, it wore a German name. I love German castles in France:

Hohkönigsburg



http://www.survoldefrance.fr/photos/...f/13/13153.jpg



http://idata.over-blog.com/3/02/14/2...rg-copie-2.jpg
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Last edited by Odoaker; January 27th, 2012 at 11:07 PM.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 12:35 AM   #543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odoaker View Post
.
not quite. It remains unclear who errected it, but we know that it gained its major additions under German aristocrats.
Well, maybe it's unclear for you, but from the sources I've come across (e.g. Wiki page in a few language versions) there's no doubts around the dates and person, on whose behalf/instruction the castle was constructed.

Quote:
And from the earliest reports of it existence on in the 13th century, it wore a German name.
Source?

Anyway, that would be quite interesting, as after the Kingdom of Poland was established, Śląsk (Silesia) had never been in foreign (non-Polish) 'hands' until XIV century, as far as I know.

Last edited by ja.centy; January 28th, 2012 at 12:41 AM.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #544
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Well, I don´t know since when its Poish name was around, but according to Wikipedia, the German was already around in the 13th century. More important, since the castle was destroyed, its today´s appearance was a work of German aristocrats .

"This second castle was destroyed in 1482 by Georg von Stein. In the year 1509 Konrad I von Hoberg (from 1714: Hochberg) obtained the castle hill. The Hochberg family owned the castle until 1941." (Wikipedia)

For almost half an aeon, it was a German castle.

To say it´s Polish is like to say Novgorod is a German city only because it once was founded by Germanic tribes.

Last edited by Odoaker; January 28th, 2012 at 01:17 PM.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 01:17 PM   #545
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Ruins of the Ukrainian castle of XII-XIII centuries in Chełm Land (now in Poland):

Last edited by Bufinder; January 28th, 2012 at 01:35 PM.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 01:26 PM   #546
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The Tower of Kamianiec - the Ukrainian castle of XIII century in the town of Kamianiec (now in Belarus):

Last edited by Bufinder; January 28th, 2012 at 01:32 PM.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #547
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I read once on some Ukrainian blog, that Castle of Lublin probably have Rusin/Ukrainian origin:


Just look at frescos in castle chapel: http://www.zamek-lublin.pl/index.php...31307766b1cd8a

Eastern as hell.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odoaker View Post
Well, I don´t know since when its Poish name was around, but according to Wikipedia, the German was already around in the 13th century.
Didn't find that one. Does it appear in German Wikipedia only?

Quote:
More important, since the castle was destroyed, its today´s appearance was a work of German aristocrats.
Well, current appearance of the castle (in baroque style) certainly doesn't stem from XII century.

Quote:
To say it´s Polish is like to say Novgorod is a German city only because it once was founded by Germanic tribes.
You're right, Germanic tribes doesn't equal German. Otherwise we could say that Berlin is a Polish city, as the towns of Koepenick/Kopanica and Spandau (now parts of Berlin) were established by the West Slavic Lechitic tribes.

Anyway, as I said, until XIV century Śląsk (Silesia) had been part of Poland (Civitas Schineshge 960-992, Poland in early XI cent., in XII cent. and XIII century, with partition into duchies).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bufinder View Post
Ruins of the Ukrainian castle of XII-XIII centuries in Chełm Land (now in Poland):

http://s018.radikal.ru/i525/1201/91/3fccef686f07.jpg
Thanks. I wouldn't call this structure awesome though, as you previously said, but still it is a gem from the historic perspective (endured in pretty much one piece since XII-XII century).

Anyway, that castle seemingly would've been built in the times of Kievan Rus or Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia, which were Rus/Ruthenian states and don't equal Ukraine. The name 'Ukraine' (in relation to particular lands of Rzeczpospolita) was first officially recorded/used in XVI century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatsby View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy
Sorry, were you talking to me?
Very much so.

I like this thread and I don't want it to be littered with nationalist bashing.
May I remind you that the issue was started by the user 'Odoaker'.

So for you it's Okay, if the others do nationalist bashing, but it's wrong when the Poles react/defend? Twisted (and actually cowardish) logic...
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Old January 28th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #549
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No cussing about nationalities/origins and stuff here please, thanks.
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Old January 28th, 2012, 07:58 PM   #550
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Here's a few examples of the silent witnesses of Poland's spectacular but troubled history...


Tenczyn (info)

image hosted on flickr



Ogrodzieniec (info)

image hosted on flickr



Mirów (info)

image hosted on flickr



Lipowiec (info)




Rabsztyn (info)

image hosted on flickr


all pics by Mariusz Petelicki (http://www.flickr.com/photos/petelickim/sets)


Some further info on the castles & palaces in Poland: link1, link2, link3.
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Old January 29th, 2012, 12:11 PM   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
Didn't find that one. Does it appear in German Wikipedia only?

Well, current appearance of the castle (in baroque style) certainly doesn't stem from XII century.

You're right, Germanic tribes doesn't equal German. Otherwise we could say that Berlin is a Polish city, as the towns of Koepenick/Kopanica and Spandau (now parts of Berlin) were established by the West Slavic Lechitic tribes.
Since Slavic tribes almost established no cities themselves during that period (I already mentioned that the oldest Russian city was founded by Germanic people), it were Germanic settlements they colonized during the völkerwanderung (sounds quite familiar, hm ?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
Anyway, as I said, until XIV century Śląsk (Silesia) had been part of Poland (Civitas Schineshge 960-992, Poland in early XI cent., in XII cent. and XIII century, with partition into duchies).

now tell me why it´s called Silesia

Pierrefonds Castle, France



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...is_le_Parc.jpg

yeah, even whole France is German. You know, because it was ruled by Germanic houses for 800 years

Last edited by Odoaker; January 29th, 2012 at 12:20 PM.
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Old January 29th, 2012, 01:37 PM   #552
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what about hungarian castles in poland?

nedec
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Old January 29th, 2012, 01:59 PM   #553
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Trakai Island Castle, Lithuania.











Trakai Peninsula Castle nearby.


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Old January 29th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #554
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beauty

There are more German castles in Poland to love

Zamek w Barcianach/Ordensburg Barten



http://static.panoramio.com/photos/o...l/45793909.jpg
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Old January 29th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #555
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And more

Bytów/Bütow



http://www.dioblina.pl/files/portal/...2609-25858.jpg
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Old January 29th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #556
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´n more

Lidzbark Warmiński/Heilsberg


http://www.baumfalk.net/Polen2004/Tag08/m_0281.jpg


http://www.polnische-burgen.de/xz/lidzbark5.jpg
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Old January 29th, 2012, 03:33 PM   #557
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mooooore

Reszel/Burg Rößel



http://www.polnische-burgen.de/xz/reszel15.jpg
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Old January 29th, 2012, 03:37 PM   #558
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Vilnius Castle Complex (Upper, Lower castles and a mound where Curved castle once stood).

Once it looked like this.




Upper Castle.




Lower Castle, Royal Palace.








A place where Curved Castle once stood.



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Old January 29th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #559
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what about polish castles in slovakia?
Stara Lubovla

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Old January 29th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #560
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moooooooooh

Ostróda/Osterode



http://www.polnische-burgen.de/xz/ostroda4.jpg



http://www.polnische-burgen.de/xz/ostroda21.jpg



http://www.polnische-burgen.de/xz/ostroda2.jpg
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