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Old January 30th, 2012, 03:10 AM   #581
vilniusguide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odoaker View Post
beauty

There are more German castles in Poland to love
Built on occupied Baltic lands and with later germanized and polonized populations. Last ethnic german-lithuanian inhabitants were mostly expelled to Germany after the War. Offcourse, Southern part (Royal Prussia) was polonized and colonized after the 15th century.

Maybe one day this castle of Teutonic occupants will be rebuild in former Pilsotas land.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaipėda_Castle

Castles are nice, but history is sad. Prussian tribes were the most progressive of all Baltic tribes, mentioned by Ptolemaeus and Tacitus.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 09:07 AM   #582
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Khotyn Fortress (13-18th centuries) in Chernivtsi Region, Ukraine

http://photographers.com.ua/pictures..._xotin_152458/
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Old January 30th, 2012, 09:11 AM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bufinder View Post
The Tower of Kamianiec - the Ukrainian castle of XIII century in the town of Kamianiec (now in Belarus)
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Originally Posted by Bufinder View Post
Ruins of the Ukrainian castle of XII-XIII centuries in Chełm Land (now in Poland)


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Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post

Anyway, that castle seemingly would've been built in the times of Kievan Rus or Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia, which were Rus/Ruthenian states and don't equal Ukraine. The name 'Ukraine' (in relation to particular lands of Rzeczpospolita) was first officially recorded/used in XVI century.
The term "Ukraine" can be found in Slavic chronicles of 12th century.

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Originally Posted by Sienioslaw View Post
I read once on some Ukrainian blog, that Castle of Lublin probably have Rusin/Ukrainian origin
Just look at frescos in castle chapel: http://www.zamek-lublin.pl/index.php...31307766b1cd8a
Frescoes of the Lublin castle similar to frescoes and mosaics in St. Sophia Cathedral in Kyiv but I will not argue that it is our castle.

Ukraine-Poland

Gentlemens! all mixed up... Our debate are a waste of time.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 12:31 PM   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor L. View Post




The term "Ukraine" can be found in Slavic chronicles of 12th century.

Frescoes of the Lublin castle similar to frescoes and mosaics in St. Sophia Cathedral in Kyiv but I will not argue that it is our castle.

Ukraine-Poland

Gentlemens! all mixed up... Our debate are a waste of time.
+ Lutsk is lithuanian castle in Ukraine. Nice castle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubart's_Castle
+ byzantine frescoes in Lublin were ordered by lithuanian Jogaila and probably made by his craftsmen
And so on. Europe of Nations
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Old January 30th, 2012, 02:05 PM   #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vilniusguide View Post
Built on occupied Baltic lands and with later germanized and polonized populations. Last ethnic german-lithuanian inhabitants were mostly expelled to Germany after the War. Offcourse, Southern part (Royal Prussia) was polonized and colonized after the 15th century.

Maybe one day this castle of Teutonic occupants will be rebuild in former Pilsotas land.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaipėda_Castle

Castles are nice, but history is sad. Prussian tribes were the most progressive of all Baltic tribes, mentioned by Ptolemaeus and Tacitus.
They were less germanized then mixed up together. Balts profitted, too, since the territory of the Teutonic Order was the far most advanced in economical and administrative respects state beyond the alps among with Nürnberg in central Europe. Trakai castle was constructed under guidance of an Order-man. First baltic dictionaries were printed here. And so on.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #586
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Originally Posted by Odoaker View Post
They were less germanized then mixed up together. Balts profitted, too, since the territory of the Teutonic Order was the far most advanced in economical and administrative respects state beyond the alps among with Nürnberg in central Europe. Trakai castle was constructed under guidance of an Order-man. First baltic dictionaries were printed here. And so on.
Profited, but lost their culture and language, disappeared as a nation...
Nope, Trakai were not built by Order-man. It was built by local craftsmen, of course, Teutonic castles were the most progressive and they looked at them, also at the castles in Masovia, where lots of Lithuanian princesses have found their husbands
True, Tilsit, Ragnit, Koenigsberg were very important to Lithuanian culture
Sadly, no more.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #587
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Very sad, yes.

I was referring to Wikipedia though

This phase is regarded as the major development in the history of the castle. Apparently, during the truce with the Teutonic Order, the construction works were supervised by the Order's stonemason Radike, four years before the Battle of Grunwald.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trakai_...le#First_Phase
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Old January 30th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odoaker View Post
Very sad, yes.

I was referring to Wikipedia though

This phase is regarded as the major development in the history of the castle. Apparently, during the truce with the Teutonic Order, the construction works were supervised by the Order's stonemason Radike, four years before the Battle of Grunwald.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trakai_...le#First_Phase
Very dubious statement. I had a talk with some people, who worked at the rebuilding of the castle in the 60s. They said it is a myth and very strange one. Order was an enemy of Lithuania at that time, enemies do not build castles for enemies. On the other hand, Vytautas himself have been to Order castles- imprisoned or escaped, so some of his attendants
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Old January 30th, 2012, 05:27 PM   #589
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Well, it says during the truce
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Old January 30th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #590
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Well, it says during the truce
During the Middle Ages "eternal peace" treaties were extremely popular, but everyone were aware it will last no longer than a year, so...
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Old January 30th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #591
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Don't know if it was already posted, but here's Castelvecchio, Verona, Italy.

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Castelvecchio and Ponte Scaligero, Verona di Cameron Booth, su Flickr

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castelvecchio -verona di paolo dell'angelo, su Flickr

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castelvecchio -verona di paolo dell'angelo, su Flickr

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Verona : Panoramic view from the Castelvecchio di Pantchoa, su Flickr
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Old January 30th, 2012, 09:46 PM   #592
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Castelvecchio is stunning indeed.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #593
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stunning and charming in a medieval way indeed.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old January 30th, 2012, 10:12 PM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor L. View Post
The term "Ukraine" can be found in Slavic chronicles of 12th century.
And now let's finish that sentence: "(...) but for a long time it referred not solely to the border lands in present-day Ukraine. The plural term 'ukrainy' was used as well in the Grand Duchy of Moscow as in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania."

Quote:
Frescoes of the Lublin castle similar to frescoes and mosaics in St. Sophia Cathedral in Kyiv but I will not argue that it is our castle.
Quite reasonably, as Lublin has never been part of Kievan Rus (if we were to consider that country as the early predecessor of present-day Ukraine). Just look at the maps of medieval Poland since X century. The castle was built in XII cent. at the reign of Kazimierz Sprawiedliwy (Casimir II the Just), as a seat for the local castellan (link). The tower and chapel shown here previously are reported to have been built later on (XIII - XIV century).

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Gentlemens! all mixed up... Our debate are a waste of time.
Maybe so. But why didn't you react in such manner in the first place?

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Originally Posted by vilniusguide View Post
+ byzantine frescoes in Lublin were ordered by lithuanian Jogaila and probably made by his craftsmen
Yes and no.

The chapel was re-built in gothic style in early XV cent. on the instruction of Władysław Jagiełło, King of Poland, who was of Lithuanian/Ruthenian descent (his mother was Russian Uliana of Tver). BTW, I've read that Jagiełło couldn't read or write, was an analphabet. But apparently it wouldn't have been any of the important factors when considering to offer him Polish crown at the time...

And the frescoes are reported to have been made by a team of anonymous Ruthenian painters under the lead of a Master Andrej (Andrew), who signed his work on one of the walls.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 11:46 PM   #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
stunning and charming in a medieval way indeed.
The structure is medieval indeed, but it has some interesting additions from the Renaissance and from the XX century (musem built by Carlo Scarpa).

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Castelvecchio, Carlo Scarpa, 1958-1964, Verona di * Iris*, su Flickr

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Castelvecchio, Carlo Scarpa, 1958-1964, Verona di * Iris*, su Flickr
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Old January 31st, 2012, 09:08 AM   #596
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beautiful thread!
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Old January 31st, 2012, 10:57 AM   #597
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Schloss Weinberg, Austria



http://shrimp.bayou.uni-linz.ac.at/P...ael/weinbp.gif
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Old January 31st, 2012, 11:00 AM   #598
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wow
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Old February 1st, 2012, 01:47 PM   #599
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Kasteel Radboud, Medemblik

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Old February 1st, 2012, 03:40 PM   #600
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Läckö slott in Sweden.
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