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Old April 28th, 2016, 10:37 PM   #281
Tramwayman
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Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
I suppose it's so. The 15T is cool. Too bad that RS doesn't use them at full potential – at places they have to wait up to 3 minutes, because traffic lights favor cars, even if a 4-section 15T carries more people.

And there is a lack of high platforms – most stops have 0cm high platforms. Which means that many older people prefer buses, because the roadside curb is ~12cm high.

But people like the 15T. Since it's introduction passenger numbers on line 6 have more than doubled.
Well it is taking for Riga too much time to update catenary for Pantograph use and buy new trams, but everything is about money. I think Riga ould handle the system with only 5 lines, no need to have 9 lines.

124 km is a single track lenght, single track is only 60 km.
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Old April 28th, 2016, 11:15 PM   #282
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Well it is taking for Riga too much time to update catenary for Pantograph use and buy new trams, but everything is about money. I think Riga ould handle the system with only 5 lines, no need to have 9 lines.

124 km is a single track lenght, single track is only 60 km.
It's always all about the money. Lines can be upgraded only as fast as we can buy new trams. Catenary replacement itself isn't hard to do, but it's pointless without the trams. That's why only lines where new trams run are adapted for pantographs.

You mean connecting lines so that they go from one end of the city to the other, instead of just to the center? RS fears that then there would be more delays and the possibility that the whole city's tram system can get blocked if just one place gets blocked. But I think such changes would be for the better and would attract more passengers.
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Old April 28th, 2016, 11:36 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by BriedisUnIzlietne View Post
It's always all about the money. Lines can be upgraded only as fast as we can buy new trams. Catenary replacement itself isn't hard to do, but it's pointless without the trams. That's why only lines where new trams run are adapted for pantographs.

You mean connecting lines so that they go from one end of the city to the other, instead of just to the center? RS fears that then there would be more delays and the possibility that the whole city's tram system can get blocked if just one place gets blocked. But I think such changes would be for the better and would attract more passengers.
If one place gets blocked trams just turn on Market loop, what is the problem? One has nothing to do with another, If a tram track to Dolje is blocked then the line going there is blocked anyways.

Yes the lines from one end to another. they are too short. Riga's tram network is not big. Double track length according to google street to street measurements by me are only 56 km, without loops and tracks in depot. It is a quite moderate system.

Tbilisi had 54 km double track, almost the same size network between 1986-1989 devided into two parts.
http://transphoto.ru/photo/288587/
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Old April 29th, 2016, 02:02 AM   #284
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But people like the 15T. Since it's introduction passenger numbers on line 6 have more than doubled.
So what is the patronage of line 6 now compared to 2008?
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Old April 30th, 2016, 02:44 PM   #285
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Damn, I understood that my thought process was wrong. I had remembered the smallest number and the largest number and compared those numbers, not the average... As well as remembered the graph which was a bit misleading. Which means that I was totally wrong in saying that passenger numbers have more than doubled...

Data is available only from 2010 which is when the e-talons electronic ticket system was introduced. It's the same year as the first new trams entered service.

In 2010 tram line 6 had on average slightly less than 600 000 passengers per month with the maximum being 644k in December.
In 2014 there was already on average 820 000 passengers per month. It's only a 37% growth from 2010 average. The maximum was 933k in October.
Since then numbers have dropped from the 2014 peak due to:
tickets being made twice as expensive
massive roadworks on Barona street, temporarily making buses preferable over trams

Other factors that might have influenced the 2010–2014 numbers besides the new trams:
A part of the tram line was reconstructed in 2013 as well as the line was extended by 3 stops in the city center – passenger numbers seem to spike after that.
The end of the recession meant that more people chose public transport – but such a growth as line 6 hasn't been on other popular lines – other lines have had a growth of only around 5%.
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Old April 30th, 2016, 03:05 PM   #286
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Quote:
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If one place gets blocked trams just turn on Market loop, what is the problem? One has nothing to do with another, If a tram track to Dolje is blocked then the line going there is blocked anyways.
For some reason they don't want that. There might be an overload of trams on 13. janvāra iela and Aspazijas bulvāris intersection, because every tram line would go through there. Things could change after the reconstruction (sometime around 2020, I guess) of the core tram network.

Line 10 causes problems – for much of it's length it's single track so it probably would still end at the city center to cut down probability of delays. Perhaps the Radio iela loop would be a good place. Because currently trams of line 10, along with lines 2 and 4, wait at 13. janvāra iela. Extending any line past that point would mean that there would be other trams blocking the stop. Unless 3rd track get built or terminating lines get transferred to another (Radio iela) loop.

But yes, lines from one end of the city to the other would be good. It was like that in the Soviet era, but then was cancelled in the 90ies.
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Old April 30th, 2016, 06:16 PM   #287
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But yes, lines from one end of the city to the other would be good. It was like that in the Soviet era, but then was cancelled in the 90ies.
Any new tram lines in the future?
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Old April 30th, 2016, 09:03 PM   #288
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Currently there is an effort to build a tram line through the city center's newest district – Skanste. It would be built around 2020 and the project would include the purchase of 12 new trams to serve the line.
Map: http://balticmaps.eu/?lang=lv&draw_h...layer=map&ls=o

But I'm not sure whether such a line is really needed or at least in this shape.

There are loads of other plans for new tram lines, but nothing more than a vision. The closest to reality might be a short extension to Berģi.
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Old April 30th, 2016, 10:11 PM   #289
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But I'm not sure whether such a line is really needed or at least in this shape.
Yes I saw this news but who need tracks there#???? which line could use them this way?
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Old April 30th, 2016, 10:52 PM   #290
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There are many reasons why they want to build that tram line:
  1. Skanste is a quickly developing high-density area of the city and needs a transportation connection to further spur development;
  2. The project is EU co-funded and so it can't be built where there already is environmentally friendly transportation – the trolleybus – which means that most of the large urban areas, where there actually is a demand for a tram, are not eligible;
  3. RS can use the EU funds to reconstruct the existing tram lines in the city's core (they can't get EU money without new construction) so they aren't interested in spending too much of the money on the new part – that's why it's not particularly long;
  4. The line would connect Arēna Rīga sport and performance arena – such an object needs high-capacity public transport connection like the tram;
  5. Such a line would make a diversion possible when Barona or Miera streets are closed.
I have no idea which routes would use that line. There would probably be a route from Center to Jugla. And maybe a route to Mežaparks (though in normal traffic that could also be just a matter of a transfer stop)
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Old May 2nd, 2016, 08:43 PM   #291
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New trolleybus routes are planned?
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Old May 2nd, 2016, 08:54 PM   #292
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No, not really. And we haven't built any new lines since the 1km extension to Ziepniekkalns in 1994.

Perhaps some lines will be extended where there aren't wires with the help of diesel/hydrogen, but I doubt any actual infrastructure will be built.
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Old May 16th, 2016, 02:01 PM   #293
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It looks like the precise placement of Skanste tram line is known now

On Skanstes iela tram tracks will be located in the median.
On Zirņu and Senču iela tram tracks will be next to the roadway on the eastern side.
On Pērnavas iela they will be on the western side.

At least two buildings will have to be demolished to make room for the tram.

Construction should start in 2018





http://skaties.lv/zinas/latvija/sabi...-to-maz-vajag/
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Old May 16th, 2016, 02:15 PM   #294
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What kind of buildings will be demolished?
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Old May 16th, 2016, 02:24 PM   #295
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Two industrial buildings (car repair shops)

https://www.google.lv/maps/@56.96754...7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.lv/maps/@56.96810...7i13312!8i6656
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Old May 20th, 2016, 04:41 PM   #296
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Reconstructed G. Zemgala gatve tram stop
Trams started using the new high platforms yesterday, but not everything is finished yet.


View towards VEF Kultūras pils (under reconstruction)


I guess this is the place where cars can cross? But it functions also as a pedestrian crossing


View towards Elkor Plaza. The sidewalk was widened a bit


View towards VEF, where tram tracks were reconstructed and crash barriers replaced

Photos by me, taken today
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Old May 26th, 2016, 01:58 AM   #297
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Well, as a Pole I need to say I was hoping that Pesa was going to win this.


Looks like you're doing a bad deal with Skoda though. The 15T may be a great tram and doing fine, you're unfortunately being absolutely ripped off with price of 3,13 mln €/unit, which is at least 20% more than it's worth and is a reazonable price for a 40m tramcar. (Trams for Prague cost 2,3 mln €/unit, your first batch was 2,6 mln €/unit).

Typically, manufacturers like Bombardier, CAF, Stadler and Alstom price ~30m cars at no more than 3 mln €/unit (usually it's 2,3-2,5).

I'm almost sure that Pesa offered you the Twist model - a 100% LF tram with pivoting bogies. Foxtrots are a special version for Moscow.
Stadler would offer Variobahn or the Tango LF.
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Old May 26th, 2016, 08:44 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0tomek0 View Post
Well, as a Pole I need to say I was hoping that Pesa was going to win this.


Looks like you're doing a bad deal with Skoda though. The 15T may be a great tram and doing fine, you're unfortunately being absolutely ripped off with price of 3,13 mln €/unit, which is at least 20% more than it's worth and is a reazonable price for a 40m tramcar. (Trams for Prague cost 2,3 mln €/unit, your first batch was 2,6 mln €/unit).

Typically, manufacturers like Bombardier, CAF, Stadler and Alstom price ~30m cars at no more than 3 mln €/unit (usually it's 2,3-2,5).

I'm almost sure that Pesa offered you the Twist model - a 100% LF tram with pivoting bogies. Foxtrots are a special version for Moscow.
Stadler would offer Variobahn or the Tango LF.
Well I was hoping Skoda wins again and I am glad. Pesa can make trams for local cities.

You are totally mistaken.

Riga buys 15 cars with 3 sections each costs 2,7 mln euros.
5 cars with 4 sections each 3.5 mln euros.

So the prices are fine and in the range of other manufacturers.

Pesa cars and Stadler cars are nothing compared with Skoda 15T it the only 100% low floor tram on full pivoting bogies taking 15 meter radius.

https://www.rigassatiksme.lv/en/news...trams-to-riga/

and more once a city has started to buy trams from Skoda they wonÄ't buy anything from other supplier no one wants rolling stock zoo in their city everyone knows how to handle with Skodas, and they do not want to learn the driving and maintaining the new models that is stupid to do so.

Last edited by Tramwayman; May 26th, 2016 at 08:51 PM.
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Old May 27th, 2016, 12:45 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0tomek0 View Post
Well, as a Pole I need to say I was hoping that Pesa was going to win this.


Looks like you're doing a bad deal with Skoda though. The 15T may be a great tram and doing fine, you're unfortunately being absolutely ripped off with price of 3,13 mln €/unit, which is at least 20% more than it's worth and is a reazonable price for a 40m tramcar. (Trams for Prague cost 2,3 mln €/unit, your first batch was 2,6 mln €/unit).

Typically, manufacturers like Bombardier, CAF, Stadler and Alstom price ~30m cars at no more than 3 mln €/unit (usually it's 2,3-2,5).

I'm almost sure that Pesa offered you the Twist model - a 100% LF tram with pivoting bogies. Foxtrots are a special version for Moscow.
Stadler would offer Variobahn or the Tango LF.
No other manufacturer has a tram for operating conditions such as in Prague or Riga. I imagine the tender for Riga would have set down technical requirements that nobody could meet except Skoda. Although it might cost a little more for a better tram, it is a false economy to buy a cheaper tram that's then going to have problems operating on the system (like Helsinki's Variobahns).

The door arrangement on the Pesa is not good, having less doors than the Skoda and messing the internal layout. Also Pesa loses seats over the bogies. You can't compare it with the 15T.
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Old May 27th, 2016, 10:15 AM   #300
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Yes, Rīga did make the tender very strict
Quote:
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The door arrangement on the Pesa is not good, having less doors than the Skoda and messing the internal layout. Also Pesa loses seats over the bogies. You can't compare it with the 15T.
Yes, the many doors is definitely an advantage of Škoda on the overcrowded lines in Rīga.

Does Pesa lose seats over bogies? How does their capacity compare?

One thing that I like about the Pesa is that the connection between the sections isn't so cramped so the tram *feels* roomier and lighter. One thing I don't like is that over the end bogies seats next to each other are at different levels:




Pesa Fokstrot


Riga's 4-section 15T1
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