St. Pete Pier redevelopment

[HARTride 2012]

I'm not impressed by any of these proposals. I'd rather see something that has some retail to draw people out to it. Otherwise, it's just a sparingly used pier.

[I-275westcoastfl]

At this point they should stay on budget and just not build a pier. They should instead redevelop the land leading up to the pier, make it a baywalk type thing. Maybe they can leave a small section of the old pier as a fishing pier. Otherwise they should just focus on making a nice bayfront park and move on. Maybe someday with more money they can rebuild a nice landmark pier not some crap that will cost way more than originally said that the people had no say in. I love the current pier but its outdated and its dying, time to lay it to rest.

[TampaMike]

That's what I'm saying. They could even use the money to start a streetcar line and work with the county for additional funding $50 million. Probably a little more additional city funds, come county funds, and ta-da!

[tamparican]

Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl

At this point they should stay on budget and just not build a pier. They should instead redevelop the land leading up to the pier, make it a baywalk type thing. Maybe they can leave a small section of the old pier as a fishing pier. Otherwise they should just focus on making a nice bayfront park and move on. Maybe someday with more money they can rebuild a nice landmark pier not some crap that will cost way more than originally said that the people had no say in. I love the current pier but its outdated and its dying, time to lay it to rest.

EXACTLY what I was thinking before, if so far all they are planning is basically a park with walking views, I'd rather them spend the $50 MIL on redeveloping that actual shore, build on that whole frontal area, make it a boardwalk with some retail as mentioned, something that would make a great start and foundation for the next project to replace the actual pier. Closer to DT and Baywalk that would directly be within immediate walking distance for those in the area. Then later on when $$ is right, they have the rest of the lot to build upon, an actual iconic structure and venue hopefully.

[Jasonhouse]

They should be doing what I suggested 2-3 years ago (whenever it was)... They need to use this redevelopment of the pier's uplands to integrate all of the downtown waterfront's disparate parks into a single cohesive network that functions as a modern 'central' park. Span the channel to both yacht basins, so that the Pinellas Trail can be extended to link directly with Demen's Landing, the pier, Vinoy Park and the north shore. Build an open air amphitheater. Build a water fountain either on the pier approach, or in the Vinoy Basin itself. Build a children's water park at the North Shore pool.

Imagine Chicago's Grant Park, but instead of being next to the waterfront, the park would make the water a direct part of the park experience. The water is by far St Petersburg's greatest asset. It's a no brainer to make it the centerpiece of the city's centerpiece public space.

[dpw1983]

I love the Lens design. So many layers and new places to explore. Though there is no retail, all the looping paths would probably become St. Petersburg's Bayshore Blvd with respect to evening pedestrian traffic. I can imagine watching the sunrise from a new location every morning for a year with this design. Plus this design incorporates pilons from the old pier?! Awesome!

The wave looks like a toilet paper roll, and what's with all the non-sense proposed inside? Less than half of those inside activities seem realistic.

The eye seems like something Gulfport would build, not St. Petersburg as a replacement for their iconic pier.

Jason, it sounds like you're talking about the Lens proposal. Though walkways from Vinoy to Pier to Demen's would never work. Sail boats float through those channels. How high would the bridge have to be?

[Jasonhouse]

^Pedestrian drawbridges can be automated. This was discussed back in this thread somewhere.

[DShenise]

I doubt any of the proposals can come in within 20% of the total budget. Its typical BIG ARCHITECTURE from the C4D set. The St.Pete eye is probably closest to being on budget. The rest are trying to compete with other BIG, get my name and portfolio in a Taschen book projects that have cropped up lately.

[I-275westcoastfl]

They city needs to start listening to residents and not trying to create something to draw tourism. I don't mean those whining residents who want to rebuild the Million Dollar Pier, its our past and trying to recreate that pier would be expensive and with todays cheaper materials it would be a flop. I would love to have a world class landmark built in St. Petersburg, but truth is that costs lots of money and none of these tacky designs will be successful long term. If they did it right and developed a large central waterfront park, we'd be the only city this side of the state that has such a large and high quality waterfront park, the benefits would be endless.

Originally Posted by TampaMike

That's what I'm saying. They could even use the money to start a streetcar line and work with the county for additional funding $50 million. Probably a little more additional city funds, come county funds, and ta-da!

I doubt they would have enough funds to start a streetcar line but maybe they could leave an area of the park to be "shovel ready" for when a transit stop could be built.

Originally Posted by tamparican

EXACTLY what I was thinking before, if so far all they are planning is basically a park with walking views, I'd rather them spend the $50 MIL on redeveloping that actual shore, build on that whole frontal area, make it a boardwalk with some retail as mentioned, something that would make a great start and foundation for the next project to replace the actual pier. Closer to DT and Baywalk that would directly be within immediate walking distance for those in the area. Then later on when $$ is right, they have the rest of the lot to build upon, an actual iconic structure and venue hopefully.

Yeah the shore needs some beauty work but has so much potential! I think they need to put spa beach to rest, I rarely see anyone on it and nobody goes to it over a gulf beach. Instead I agree that a boardwalk area should be built, make it a nice play for people to come enjoy the bay. I think they should call it Baywalk to help give the retail Baywalk a boost with its bad name. They could put small ads like they have in malls advertising the park in the movie area and the park area advertising the movies and stores. Instead of building retail in the park area they can focus on pushing people back into downtown to eat, shop, and drink. They can maybe add sculptures in the park that reflect St. Pete something the locals know to show its not only a tourist trap. They can use the obelisks, Mediterranean shelters/restrooms, something similar to the skyway, and so on. I mean come on the business owners win from that combo and the residents get a park that puts others in Florida to shame.

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

They should be doing what I suggested 2-3 years ago (whenever it was)... They need to use this redevelopment of the pier's uplands to integrate all of the downtown waterfront's disparate parks into a single cohesive network that functions as a modern 'central' park. Span the channel to both yacht basins, so that the Pinellas Trail can be extended to link directly with Demen's Landing, the pier, Vinoy Park and the north shore. Build an open air amphitheater. Build a water fountain either on the pier approach, or in the Vinoy Basin itself. Build a children's water park at the North Shore pool.

Imagine Chicago's Grant Park, but instead of being next to the waterfront, the park would make the water a direct part of the park experience. The water is by far St Petersburg's greatest asset. It's a no brainer to make it the centerpiece of the city's centerpiece public space.

Exactly connecting all the parks is key and would encourage both residents and tourists to go through the whole park and by then they would be hungry, tired, or have a satisfaction of the city that they would head back into the downtown and spend money.

[DShenise]

They aren't necessarily tacky designs, they are just well above budget. I'd expect these in somewhere in the middle east, Singapore might have a go at this, or maybe western europe. I like the loop design quite a bit, but for a town of largely fiscally conservative residents who are older it doesn't fit the area.

[jamesk]

All those old people in the senior condos can't even walk half the length of that.

[I-275westcoastfl]

Originally Posted by DShenise

They aren't necessarily tacky designs, they are just well above budget. I'd expect these in somewhere in the middle east, Singapore might have a go at this, or maybe western europe. I like the loop design quite a bit, but for a town of largely fiscally conservative residents who are older it doesn't fit the area.

The loop is tacky and won't age well, all the activities they have in the render made me laugh, most of them won't happen even if they build it. Only part of it I like is it being a stage for events, I think that is a cool feature and the observation area on the top. The design is bland and isn't good enough to become a landmark, the inverted pyramid is a rare thing despite it looking dated, so it did gain landmark status. Honestly if the loop was built it would only be used for events and otherwise sit empty like the current pier. Luckily St. Pete is changing and more young people are moving in the area, the older residents have been holding the area back long enough.

[Jahi98]

Originally Posted by DShenise

They aren't necessarily tacky designs, they are just well above budget. I'd expect these in somewhere in the middle east, Singapore might have a go at this, or maybe western europe. I like the loop design quite a bit, but for a town of largely fiscally conservative residents who are older it doesn't fit the area.

I agree with this. Of the three, I actually like it the best.

[Jasonhouse]

How about they invite the Seminoles to build a casino? lol

[tamparican]

Heres an article from a few days back where the writer is trying to claim the Pier renovation must be designed with the idea of it being a cruise port destination above all.

http://www.examiner.com/political-bu...etersburg-pier

[jonknee]

^ That may be the dumbest idea yet. You can't get a cruise ship near the Pier and there's no sense in going through the huge dredging expense (not to mention significant land based infrastructure) when there's a very large cruise ship port literally on the other side of the bay.

[Jasonhouse]

^It's so myopic as to be laughable.

Shallow water and evironmental issues aside, the FAA height restrictions for Albert Whitted would preclude a cruise terminal being anywhere near the pier (the height restriction for the pier is like 78ft the last I heard). Plus the main shipping channel through the bay is still only wide enough for one cruise ship to pass at a time, and the Tampa cruise port already clogs the channel's schedule to the max during the peak cruise season. Oh, and of course the Skyway is still too low to accommodate most of the newer, larger ships the cruise lines are using anyways.

[koopalicious]

Originally Posted by jonknee

^ That may be the dumbest idea yet. You can't get a cruise ship near the Pier and there's no sense in going through the huge dredging expense (not to mention significant land based infrastructure) when there's a very large cruise ship port literally on the other side of the bay.

I agree that it is not a good idea, but you do realize that there is a port next to the runways at the airport, right? There already exists a channel.

[tampasteve]

Originally Posted by koopalicious

I agree that it is not a good idea, but you do realize that there is a port next to the runways at the airport, right? There already exists a channel.

Except the channel is far too shallow, plus the boats (far from ships) that dock in the port are small pleasure boats. Gross tonnage, height, water displacement, etc. are more the issue here. A 40 foot sailboat is around 10 gross tons, whereas a small cruise ship is around 90,000 gross tons. The port is in no way capable of handling even a small ship.

Steve

[dpw1983]

There is a port south of Albert Whitted where large coast guard and other ships dock.

If St. Pete wanted to bring cruise passengers into downtown couldn't ships just tender passengers to the pier on smaller vessels? No need for the ships themselves to approach the pier.