Sunderland and Durham Area – Hotels

[denm]

Originally Posted by JetStreak

I seem to remember that the plan was to include a hotel in the stadium at some point as part of the expansion. But it would seem unlikely that the ground capacity will be increased any time soon as it isn't needed.

However a hotel in that area would work if the stadium village masterplan takes shape. Build the ski slope and some high quality office accommodation for small businesses, replacing the tired industrial units, and a hotel would work. Although I'd expect a budget offerring like a Premier Inn.

Yeah I remember reading that SAFC had planning permission to build a five or six storey Hotel, but I think the original plan was for the Hotel to be built on the car park---and I believe this is still the case, ----- and as for the Stadium Village plans, ---yes, I agree, ---if the Snow Centre gets built, --and various other Developments goes ahead, ---then I think a Hotel should be a definite.

[denm]

I don't think the proposed plans for a Hotel next to the Stadium are reliant on the building of the Snow Centre, -------SAFC planned to build a Hotel long before a Snow Centre was thought of, --and have had permission to build for a number of years.

[newcastlepubs]

Originally Posted by denm

I don't think the proposed plans for a Hotel next to the Stadium are reliant on the building of the Snow Centre, -------SAFC planned to build a Hotel long before a Snow Centre was thought of, --and have had permission to build for a number of years.

Yes, sorry my comments were only on the snow centre. As to the hotel I am sure you re right. As I once found out on a night out S-land does not seem to be over blessed with hotels

[denm]

Originally Posted by newcastlepubs

Yes, sorry my comments were only on the snow centre. As to the hotel I am sure you re right. As I once found out on a night out S-land does not seem to be over blessed with hotels

Your right about the Hotel situation, ----although there are many proposals for new Hotels (many with planning permission), ----we are still waiting for any them to kick off, --but the way the economy is at present, ---can't see a great amount of movement yet.

[JetStreak]

In general the land around the stadium, and to an extent the Vaux site, will be influenced by what happens with the England World Cup bid. If the bid is successful and Sunderland is confirmed as a venue then there will need to be large investment in the area around the stadium to support the event and meet the criteria of Fifa. While the SoL meets the standards as is, the rest of the area and Sunderland do not, especially when it comes to hotel rooms.

And this time we can't count Newcastle/Gateshead within the nearby hotel rooms because they will be included in the Newcastle/Gateshead quota.

[denm]

Originally Posted by JetStreak

In general the land around the stadium, and to an extent the Vaux site, will be influenced by what happens with the England World Cup bid. If the bid is successful and Sunderland is confirmed as a venue then there will need to be large investment in the area around the stadium to support the event and meet the criteria of Fifa. While the SoL meets the standards as is, the rest of the area and Sunderland do not, especially when it comes to hotel rooms.

And this time we can't count Newcastle/Gateshead within the nearby hotel rooms because they will be included in the Newcastle/Gateshead quota.

You make some fair points Jet, --and I have been thinking similarly, ----and as for Hotels, --been saying for a long time how the need in Sunderland for more is a must.

[YorkshireMackem]

Originally Posted by JetStreak

In general the land around the stadium, and to an extent the Vaux site, will be influenced by what happens with the England World Cup bid. If the bid is successful and Sunderland is confirmed as a venue then there will need to be large investment in the area around the stadium to support the event and meet the criteria of Fifa. While the SoL meets the standards as is, the rest of the area and Sunderland do not, especially when it comes to hotel rooms.

And this time we can't count Newcastle/Gateshead within the nearby hotel rooms because they will be included in the Newcastle/Gateshead quota.

Agreed.

Sunderland has seen a large number of proposals for hotels come forward in recent years, which means there is obviously a certain level of demand for them. However, the hotel industry has seen a decline which has led to these projects being shelved for the moment.

Sunderland has been hit hard by this given that the demand for hotels in the City Centre is not currently supported by office-based companies, as it is in most other big cities. We all know that the development of the Vaux site in particular would bring the required level of office development to provide a demand for hotels. However, the risk of developing hotels to then see no development on the Vaux site for another 10 years has proved too much for most hotel developers in the current climate.

However, the massive mark-ups that hotel operators would make from Sunderland hosting World Cup games alone will encourage developers to pull their fingers out and get moving, in my opinion. The proposed Justice Centre and Real Snow Ski Slope would sustain this demand to a certain extent after the World Cup.

Even if the demand for hotels in Sunderland tails off after the World Cup, I think most developers will see it as a risk worth taking, given the massive revenue potential of the World Cup on its own. I also think this would give hotel operators the breathing space to be able to wait for office development to come along and provide long term sustainable business for the hotel operators.

I suppose the general message is that hotel developers obviously see the potential of Sunderland in terms of creating future demand for rooms, but the risks are too great at the moment given the uncertainty over future developments. The World Cup would help to dampen that risk.

[newcastlepubs]

However, the massive mark-ups that hotel operators would make from Sunderland hosting World Cup games alone will encourage developers to pull their fingers out and get moving, in my opinion. The proposed Justice Centre and Real Snow Ski Slope would sustain this demand to a certain extent after the World Cup

I don t know about the Palais de Justice but as far as the ski slope goes the track record on hotels being supported by these facilities is not great - they only really attract day visitors, at least on the scale that's under discussion here.

There are, and have been a few proposals for a centre parcs type ski centre [ie that the ski slope is the 'magnet' for the accommodation, and food in the same way that the pools are in C-Parcs], but so far no one has made it stack up. The closest is the Snoasis proposal, and despite all of the positive noises that s pretty much back burner right now.

Obviously the odd slope user will stay over, but in my experience the contribution would be pretty small apart from during the odd 'national' event.

Mind you in my experience of Sunderland there surely mustbe a market at least for a Premier Inn/Jurys or two in the city centre. I recall a night out with Mrs Pubwatcher and discovered that there was pretty much nothing that we'd want to risk within walking distance of the town centre.

[horokeio]

Originally Posted by newcastlepubs

I don t know about the Palais de Justice but as far as the ski slope goes the track record on hotels being supported by these facilities is not great - they only really attract day visitors, at least on the scale that's under discussion here.

There are, and have been a few proposals for a centre parcs type ski centre [ie that the ski slope is the 'magnet' for the accommodation, and food in the same way that the pools are in C-Parcs], but so far no one has made it stack up. The closest is the Snoasis proposal, and despite all of the positive noises that s pretty much back burner right now.

Obviously the odd slope user will stay over, but in my experience the contribution would be pretty small apart from during the odd 'national' event.

Mind you in my experience of Sunderland there surely mustbe a market at least for a Premier Inn/Jurys or two in the city centre. I recall a night out with Mrs Pubwatcher and discovered that there was pretty much nothing that we'd want to risk within walking distance of the town centre.

There are two Premier Inns at Castletown, several big hotels and many more small ones on the coast at Roker and Seaburn and of course Seaham Hall for the more affluent visitor, but your analysis of the city centre is quite right. There are precious few options besides a Travelodge near the Empire Theatre, which I know does very well in terms of occupancy - though there are a few smaller boutique-type hotels now, including Hawkesley House in Sunniside. There have been dozens of plans that have come and gone for other hotel developments in the centre, none of which have yet come to pass.

[newcastlepubs]

Originally Posted by horokeio

There are two Premier Inns at Castletown, several big hotels and many more small ones on the coast at Roker and Seaburn and of course Seaham Hall for the more affluent visitor, but your analysis of the city centre is quite right. There are precious few options besides a Travelodge near the Empire Theatre, which I know does very well in terms of occupancy - though there are a few smaller boutique-type hotels now, including Hawkesley House in Sunniside. There have been dozens of plans that have come and gone for other hotel developments in the centre, none of which have yet come to pass.

Yes that s was what surprised/surprises me. I live in Newcastle which has a large number of 'Lodge' type hotels [as well as more upmarket properties]. Seems to me that this is the case with most cities of a similar size to Sunderland. Whilst I can do the numbers on snowdomes, hotels are off my patch - it just seems given the population, university, businesses etc etc there would be a demand for properties in what I'd call an SR1 [city centre] postcode. You'd think that the football crowd might make a difference - certainly the Newcastle ones fill up [and there are a lot more of them].

[JetStreak]

I think there is huge demand and I think if it hadn't been for the downturn then we would be seeing some of the developments now. I'm sure as soon as that changes there will be developments in Sunderland, but it may take one of the projects such as Vaux, Farringdon Row or the stadium village to kick start things. Premier Inn have recently stated that their immediate objective is to increase average occupancy rates to 80% before looking to expand further.

[denm]

Originally Posted by JetStreak

I think there is huge demand and I think if it hadn't been for the downturn then we would be seeing some of the developments now. I'm sure as soon as that changes there will be developments in Sunderland, but it may take one of the projects such as Vaux, Farringdon Row or the stadium village to kick start things. Premier Inn have recently stated that their immediate objective is to increase average occupancy rates to 80% before looking to expand further.

Think your right, --- I know there was at least ten Hotels proposed in and around Sunderland, ---with at half being granted planning permission, ---and none have begun, ---maybe if a couple of the large Developments goes ahead, --then hopefully some of the proposed the Hotels might get built, ---we can only hope though.

[YorkshireMackem]

Originally Posted by newcastlepubs

Yes that s was what surprised/surprises me. I live in Newcastle which has a large number of 'Lodge' type hotels [as well as more upmarket properties]. Seems to me that this is the case with most cities of a similar size to Sunderland. Whilst I can do the numbers on snowdomes, hotels are off my patch - it just seems given the population, university, businesses etc etc there would be a demand for properties in what I'd call an SR1 [city centre] postcode. You'd think that the football crowd might make a difference - certainly the Newcastle ones fill up [and there are a lot more of them].

Totally agree mate.

However, I think Sunderland's critical and fundamental problem is it's lack of core office businesses and general industry is not in the City Centre, and this is reflected in the lack of hotel provision. It is a city that is massively off-balance in economic terms, with its core employment centre being at Doxford Park.

Everything else is there; leisure, sport and university so you would think there would be a decent level of hotel accommodation already, but the fundamental problem with these things is that they are all seasonal and so demand is not always there. Office related overnight stays are all year round and offer confidence to hoteliers which isn't quite there yet, evidently.

[denm]

As far as I know, ---a Hotel on the car parks beside the Stadium of Light is still on the agenda, ---and I believe that SAFC still have planning permission, ---and I hope the Club goes ahead with their plans.

[horokeio]

I heard just before new year that a hotel in the Tavistock area was at the final planning stages? Anybody heard anything or with more info?

[denm]

Originally Posted by horokeio

I heard just before new year that a hotel in the Tavistock area was at the final planning stages? Anybody heard anything or with more info?

About a year ago, --there was a proposal for a Hotel from a Japanese chain for one around the Tavistock area,---but I haven't heard anything since then, ----so maybe this could be the Hotel you have heard about.

[YorkshireMackem]

Originally Posted by denm

About a year ago, --there was a proposal for a Hotel from a Japanese chain for one around the Tavistock area,---but I haven't heard anything since then, ----so maybe this could be the Hotel you have heard about.

I suspect that the proposed Software Centre has re-ignited the Japanese firm's interest in the development.

Does anyone know which site this is on? Could it be the current Kwik-Fit/Prontaprint site fronting on to Borough Road and backing on to Tavistock Place?

If this is the case, the whole Borough Road and wider Sunniside area will receive a massive lift in fortunes.

Borough Road is already quite an impressive street, towards the Burdon Road end, but it deteriorates quite significantly once you get beyond the junction to Toward Road. A hotel in this location would be ideal.

However, (and I say this as respectfully as I can), the YMCA on Toward Road and what I understand to be a Drugs Rehabilitation Centre on Tatham Street, as important as they are, can attract anti-social elements in the area. I hope that these facilities can be located to more community-based facilities, as opposed to remaining in any area which is becoming an important part of the City Centre office and leisure economy.

[denm]

Originally Posted by YorkshireMackem

I suspect that the proposed Software Centre has re-ignited the Japanese firm's interest in the development.

Does anyone know which site this is on? Could it be the current Kwik-Fit/Prontaprint site fronting on to Borough Road and backing on to Tavistock Place?

If this is the case, the whole Borough Road and wider Sunniside area will receive a massive lift in fortunes.

Borough Road is already quite an impressive street, towards the Burdon Road end, but it deteriorates quite significantly once you get beyond the junction to Toward Road. A hotel in this location would be ideal.

However, (and I say this as respectfully as I can), the YMCA on Toward Road and what I understand to be a Drugs Rehabilitation Centre on Tatham Street, as important as they are, can attract anti-social elements in the area. I hope that these facilities can be located to more community-based facilities, as opposed to remaining in any area which is becoming an important part of the City Centre office and leisure economy.

Think the original proposed Hotel was planned for that area opposite the Mowbray apartments like you said, ----so hopefully this Development could still go-ahead.

[kingdom bhoy]

Originally Posted by denm

Think the original proposed Hotel was planned for that area opposite the Mowbray apartments like you said, ----so hopefully this Development could still go-ahead.

Any further news on this.

[denm]

Originally Posted by kingdom bhoy

Any further news on this.

I haven't heard anymore regarding the proposed Hotel, ----but I think the Apartments proposal for Murton Street is still on the agenda.