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Old July 20th, 2016, 12:09 AM   #2041
Winter Paradox
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Has anyone here been effected by the Southern Rail mess? I have a friend who came back from Brighton and her journey was delayed for about an hour and a half going into London.

What's anyone's thoughts on it? Seems to me all sides, union, Govia and now the passengers, are at a very deep battle in a war that could, maybe, be resolved quickly and safely.
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Old July 20th, 2016, 01:14 AM   #2042
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Frankly since new Southern franchise started service quality deteriorated severely which is odd compare to fact that it is run basically by the same company. There is harder to get cheaper tickets, controls on ticket gates were reduced but replaced by fare evasion stuff (3 times ticket checks during one trip may be annoying), trolley service were withdrawn, and recently punctuality seems to be falling. As I was told to be blamed is new TSGN franchise which due to its interim Thameslink upgrades and rescheduling of everything isn't so much focused on revenue and other quality factors which were in earlier Southern franchise.
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Old July 22nd, 2016, 12:30 PM   #2043
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Old July 22nd, 2016, 02:18 PM   #2044
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Thank you Londonist for some insight into the London Bridge Station project.
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Old July 25th, 2016, 10:57 AM   #2045
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Incredible amount of stuff being done at London Bridge.
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Old July 25th, 2016, 02:23 PM   #2046
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Old July 25th, 2016, 07:11 PM   #2047
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Crosspost from UK transport subforum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon10 View Post
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Old July 29th, 2016, 10:44 AM   #2048
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The Class 345 coming to life for the Elizabeth Line. Each carriage looks looooooooog. Luckily there aren't any sharp rail turns on the route. Both Manor Park and Maryland will have short platforms so expect door restrictions. Platform extension on at other station apart from Stratford Platform 5 & 8, where they can already hold 12 carriage long trains on normal trains. Mind The Gap.
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Old July 29th, 2016, 05:56 PM   #2049
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=537

Network Rail awards contract to Jacobs for Heathrow Airport link
Friday, July 29, 2016



JACOBS engineering group announced on July 27 it was awarded a contract by Network Rail to provide a second rail link from the Great Western main line to London Heathrow airport, Britain

The work is part of the project to improve connection to the Britain’s busiest airport and create a global gateway for western England

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Old July 30th, 2016, 01:07 PM   #2050
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Take a look at @BombardierRail's Tweet: https://twitter.com/BombardierRail/s...270926336?s=09

A small vid captured by staff of the Elizabeth Line (Class 345) being tested.
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Old July 31st, 2016, 01:55 PM   #2051
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I still don't get how someone could change brilliant name Crossrail into Elizabeth Line, hapilly I am not the only one.
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Old July 31st, 2016, 03:36 PM   #2052
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For someone who knows a lot about London's rail infrastructure he sure talks a lot of guff in that video.

Absolutely feel free to knock the name itself 'Elizabeth' and feel free to praise the name 'Crossrail'. Feel free to have a go at the late decision to change the name and the issue of the signs already made with 'Crossrail' on them. And Geoff does all those valid and understandable criticisms. But his main argument isn't those - but rather fallacious ones trying to make the distinction between it and the Underground bigger.
  • "We've never had that before" - the District line used to have trains to Windsor and Southend that didn't stop everywhere in central London, and it was still called the 'District line'. (one of many examples)
  • "It's a fast train that doesn't stop as much as the Central Line"* - Wembley Park-Baker Street? Earls Court-Acton Town? Even Liverpool Street-Mile End or Finsbury Park-Green Park are similar fewer-stops but on a different line routes.
  • "Metro-style service" - the LU line whose name names the sort of rail we're talking about has 2tph sections, trains that skip stops, journey times to Liverpool Street of over an hour, whatever else came up in the comments of that video.
  • "RER" - London's tube has been doing the RER thing since before Paris. Even if we ignore the now gone through rail services on the SSLs and the 1868 route via Snow Hill, then there's the 1930s New Works - stops were closed on the Piccadilly line and then extended way past the edge of the urban area (one side of London replacing what we'd call NR services the other just taking a new route that took traffic off two 'NR' routes), the Northern similar (though only one stop removed), the Central similar too but with no stop closures. We used the existing tracks, sped up a little, because the tube never had the tiny station-station distances of the Metro in Paris and 'fast' wasn't something we particularly needed*, unlike Paris.
  • Not in the video, but "big trains" - the Central line trains are twice as long as the W&C's. The SSL trains have a very similar cross-sectional area as Crossrail trains (and A stock was the widest train running in the UK).

Crossrail/Liz line isn't a tube line, sure, but for those fastidious enough to be able to spot that the difference, there's the different roundels for them to also spot.

*We still don't really need fast - the key reason Crossrail has fewer stations and is thus faster in zone 1 is that the stations are twice as long and so fewer can fit in! Also it takes a straighter route than the Central line. OK, it's fast through zone 2 but that's, in part, due to the Central line being fast in zone 2 in east London.
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Old August 1st, 2016, 09:19 PM   #2053
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@sotonsi, I agree 100%. Whilst I have huge respect for Geoff and really enjoy his amazing videos on Londonist, I can't agree with anything he said in that video outside of a personal preference.

To add a couple more, in the beginning he started saying that the Elizabeth Line could never catch on because it has four syllables, yet fails to mention the Piccadilly Line, the Metropolitan Line with 5, let alone the Hammersmith and City with 6 syllables.

Then his argument that the RER doesn't use names and instead uses numbers (e.g. RER A, RER B, RER C) etc, is another reason that Crossrail is different to the tube so should use numbers as well and not have names, e.g. Crossrail 1, Crossrail 2 etc.

While he is certainly correct that Crossrail and the RER are basically the same principle, he omits the seriously big elephant in the room - the French use the same basic method for the RER as they do their own tube (the metro). The Paris Metro doesn't have line names, which is why the RER doesn't either. The metro just uses a nunbering system like Geoff thinks is best for Crossrail, and the main reason they use letters for the RER is to avoid confusion... i.e. someone can't confuse metro 1 with RER 1.

The Germans aren't so worried by even that. Their version of the RER (or Crossrail) is the S-bahn, and their tube is the U-bahn. None of them have line names either. Both their systems just use numbers, so you shouldn't confuse U1 with S1, but it is possible.

And just to throw a spanner into Geoff's argument once more, in Tokyo it is the other way around. Subway lines have numbers (no names) but the suburban rail lines have names. Ever heard of the famous loop railway in central Tokyo called the Yamanote Line? It's not a subway line!

So, all we have here is that the UK is rather unique with names for their metro lines. Most cities around the world just opt for a number or letter system, but it has nothing to do with a distinction between tube and suburban rail, it is just tradition.

London also does something rather different as well... it has the Overground which is a pile of lines that are all the same colour and no comprehensive way to distinguish them. Now this is truely bizzare.

All up, I really love Geoff's work, so if you're reading Geoff, hats off to you and all the great things you do. But I just can't agree with anything you said in this one case...
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Old August 1st, 2016, 10:39 PM   #2054
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No, Tokyo does names for the subway lines as well.

The real issue is that it dilutes the brand name. After decades and billions of dollars/euros/pounds, it makes more sense to emphasize the distinctiveness of the Crossrail brand.
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Old August 2nd, 2016, 09:37 AM   #2055
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Quote:
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No, Tokyo does names for the subway lines as well.
Sorry, you are right. Tokyo subway lines seem to have it all. They are named, they have numbers and have a separate symbol for each line.

But then that argues even more against what Geoff is saying that tube lines are named and suburban lines are not. In Tokyo, both are named.

This doesn't mean that the term Crossrail has to go, so it can retain its distinction from the tube. Not at all. After all, all the other systems are clearly separated.

When you are in Paris, the RER has its own branding. All the lines have different letters, but they are all "RER".

In Germany, all the S-bahns have their own numbers, but they have a big S at the station instead of a U, as they are S-bahn lines.

So in London, all the Crossrail lines can have their own names, but they are all Crossrail and have a different coloured Roundel.

Simple.
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Old August 2nd, 2016, 10:28 AM   #2056
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I have commented at least twice on Geoff's videos regarding the naming issue but obviously most were not enlightened. The naming of a railway line is by no mean rocket science. It's like language grammar, rules which decided by few people with power on a whim. Sometimes there is a clear logic or pattern, but other times irregular forms kick in for the sake of artistry.

I don't find distinguishing between the tube lines with Crossrail (as well as Overground and DLR) is that important to general passengers. The important thing is that they know which line can carry them from point A to point B and the necessity to interchange.
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Old August 4th, 2016, 05:39 PM   #2057
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=532

Thameslink ETCS Level 2 testing underway
Thursday, August 04, 2016



BRITISH infrastructure manager Network Rail’s Thameslink Programme achieved a milestone on July 30 following the successful operation of a class 700 train through central London using European Train Control System (ETCS) Level 2

The system will enables automatic operation under driver supervision on the core section between St Pancras and Blackfriars stations in central London and will enable up to 24 trains to operate per hour from 2018

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Old August 4th, 2016, 06:56 PM   #2058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimlys1994 View Post
From Rail Journal:
I thought they were using a version of ATO that was based on the tube and there is a switch over at some point or is that Crossrail?
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Old August 8th, 2016, 04:40 PM   #2059
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From Railway Gazette:

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http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/i...extension.html

TfL seeks contractor to build Barking Riverside extension
08 Aug 2016



UK: Transport for London has invited expressions of interest in the contract to build a 4·5 km extension of the Gospel Oak – Barking line to the Barking Riverside development area of east London.

The extension would run alongside the existing London Fenchurch Street – Tilbury line between Barking station and the Renwick Road overbridge, where it would turn south to run over a new viaduct to reach the planned station. Around 1·5 km of new alignment would be required

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Old August 8th, 2016, 08:35 PM   #2060
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Will the line be electric by the time it opens?
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