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Old August 26th, 2017, 01:15 PM   #2201
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Madrid-Barcelona HSR was finished before Crossrail was started so not relevant. I'm sure it's based on cost if on anything at all.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 02:02 PM   #2202
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I'm not sure where this claim about Crossrail came from. It is the largest deep urban commuter train tunnel project in Europe.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 02:22 PM   #2203
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It is odd that the claim just gets repeated without question... and wouldn't L9/10 in Barcelona have the claim to biggest deep level project, or the Paris grand express, or Moscow's expansions etc? Cost seems to be the only likely thing
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Old August 26th, 2017, 02:32 PM   #2204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwastell View Post
I've always wondered if - logistically - Crossrail could be extended to Gravesend, with services between Deptford and Abbeywood being transferred to TfL and taking over the New X branch of the Overground.
Yuck!!! You want to break a 181 year-old rail connection (the oldest in London) between Deptford and London Bridge?

And to do it with the Overground - a 5-car route (so half the length of current trains) that doesn't serve zone 1 and has 4 branches (the other three of which really want additional service to deal with PIXC) and a core that is already busy with trains.
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Obviously there would need to be some pretty major works undertaken to connect the Overground network to the Southeastern tracks.
You need to 4-track to Dartford.
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No idea whether the costs would outweigh the benefits, but it'd presumably open up significant capacity on the Southeastern routes via New X / Blackheath.
Only due to reducing capacity, and downgrading service on the line through Greenwich and Charlton.
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Old August 27th, 2017, 08:20 PM   #2205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Yuck!!! You want to break a 181 year-old rail connection (the oldest in London) between Deptford and London Bridge?

And to do it with the Overground - a 5-car route (so half the length of current trains) that doesn't serve zone 1 and has 4 branches (the other three of which really want additional service to deal with PIXC) and a core that is already busy with trains.
You need to 4-track to Dartford.Only due to reducing capacity, and downgrading service on the line through Greenwich and Charlton.

- Is preserving an old route for the sake of it really a reason not to make changes?

- Aren't Shoreditch High Street and Hoxton both in Zone 1?

- It would take over the New X branch, so you could maintain 6tph as is the case currently.

- sure, it'd be 5-car trains but serving a third of the number of stations

- Why would you be downgrading the line through Greenwich and Charlton? You'd be improving connectivity to Crossrail. And you'd have the added benefit of freeing up additional capacity through LB for other branches.
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Old August 28th, 2017, 12:19 AM   #2206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwastell View Post
- Is preserving an old route for the sake of it really a reason not to make changes?
Absolutely if you are going to send the service somewhere completely different.

cf the difficulty Crossrail 2 is having with diverting Waterloo services to Victoria-TCR-Euston. Multiply by lots because you take London Bridge and Cannon Street and replace them with Shoreditch High Street and Hoxton (well, more realistically Canada Water and Whitechapel): far less attractive destinations, rather than different but still attractive ones.
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- Aren't Shoreditch High Street and Hoxton both in Zone 1?
Yes, but only as Southern/DfT demanded they should be for revenue reasons.
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- It would take over the New X branch, so you could maintain 6tph as is the case currently.
It's 4tph on the New X branch - a branch that will struggle to survive demand on the other branches increasing beyond the proposed increases to 6tph on the Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction branches without upgrading the core's signalling. It's a branch that only really still exists now to provide emptier trains running through the core, but you want to have them full when they merge/diverge with the core.
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- sure, it'd be 5-car trains but serving a third of the number of stations
Given a key point of the Abbey Wood branch of Crossrail is that the current service on the route doesn't supply enough capacity for the inner stations, is halving capacity something that is sensible (assuming constant 6tph - ie upping the service on the SE branch of the ELL)?

And currently service through Greenwich doesn't get beyond Dartford, so it's 8 vs 5 - nearly two thirds of stations, not a third, and these stations total up as 1.5 times the amount of total passengers, despite including all Dartford passengers: 14.398m Deptford - Plumsted vs 9.027m Abbey Wood to Dartford
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- Why would you be downgrading the line through Greenwich and Charlton? You'd be improving connectivity to Crossrail.
A connection which involves going 4 miles east of Charlton, and 6 east of Greenwich. But as the vast majority of people on that railway want to go 4 miles west of Greenwich, and 6 west of Charlton, the connection is worth very little to them.

As for improving - how so? Those east of Abbey Wood could still be served by Elizabeth Line trains without the nonsense changes to the line through Greenwich, and those west of Abbey Wood can still change at Abbey Wood onto the Liz under any scenario: no build, extension, extension+ELL to Abbey Wood.
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And you'd have the added benefit of freeing up additional capacity through LB for other branches.
As I said, at the expense of downgrading service on a whole branch.
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Old August 29th, 2017, 11:42 AM   #2207
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Bidding starts for £3bn works on HS2 London stations

http://www.constructionenquirer.com/...ndon-stations/



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HS2 has called up contractors to bid for its two big London stations with the promise of nearly £3bn of work.

Four firms will be separately shortlisted to bid for Euston and Old Oak Common stations with prequalification documents due in by early October.

...

Euston station has an estimated construction cost of £1.65bn and has made some contractors wary about bidding for the giant build contract, according to industry sources.

Euston HS2 stands out as the most complicated contract to bid for because the full scope of works will not be established until the Autumn.

The station redevelopment will also be completed in two distinct phases, the first starting in September next year and the second due to start 2026 and run to 2033.
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Old August 29th, 2017, 03:48 PM   #2208
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Originally Posted by PortoNuts View Post
Bidding starts for £3bn works on HS2 London stations

http://www.constructionenquirer.com/...ndon-stations/





The owner of the infrastructure should cover the approach and sell air rights to developers.
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Old September 3rd, 2017, 10:08 PM   #2209
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What is meant by air rights?
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Old September 3rd, 2017, 10:12 PM   #2210
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What is meant by air rights?
The rights to build things likes shops and offices above the railway.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 07:42 PM   #2211
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London Bridge Station

http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk...bridge-station



Thameslink Programme:



















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Old September 7th, 2017, 10:58 AM   #2212
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Old September 7th, 2017, 06:49 PM   #2213
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Catch: MTR claims credit of station renovation works from Network Rail (1:25).
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Old September 7th, 2017, 09:52 PM   #2214
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Pretty sure it was Crossrail Ltd that undertook the station renevations, not Network Rail. On behalf of Network Rail and Transport for London, of course.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 07:41 PM   #2215
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Old September 21st, 2017, 03:30 PM   #2216
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Old September 23rd, 2017, 01:46 PM   #2217
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Abbey Wood Station

Crossrail:







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Old September 26th, 2017, 02:14 PM   #2218
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HS2 executives warn capacity and passenger flows into London after Euston reconstruction is dependent on CR2 being built and completed in time to deal with expected overcrowding at future Euston King's Cross St Pancras hub.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslo...ilt/ar-AAsqm4N
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Old September 26th, 2017, 04:41 PM   #2219
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which, elsewhere, they are denying.

IIRC, the case for CR2 showed that, with or without HS2, the tube stations serving Euston/KX/SP will have serious issues only really solvable by a new line serving them and the West End.

A big problem with the Euston-StP-Kings Cross 'hub' is that the tube trains arriving from the north (am peak) are already crush-loaded - especially the Piccadilly and Victoria lines - and so the passengers there struggle to get on - often waiting several trains.

In terms of CR2, HS2 passengers are a drop in the ocean, however in terms of Euston NR, it's a big increase.
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Old September 29th, 2017, 08:26 PM   #2220
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