LONDON | Network Rail: Overground, Thameslink, Crossrail - Page 5

iampuking · June 11th, 2009, 09:19 PM

Got the Thameslink at rush hour today because of the tube strike... Dwell times were noticeably longer compared to the tube at Kings Cross, and it wasn't even jam packed. Most likely because of the seating and door layout... I'm guessing that the 'Thameslink programme' is being designed by politicians and therefore they haven't a clue about what kind of layout is effective for 24tph and more.

MelbourneCity · June 12th, 2009, 10:13 AM

Will the new Thameslink trains have 4 doors per carriage, as present on the 319s, or 6, or even 8?
If Thameslink units have more doors, there is no reason why Crossrail also should not have a greater number of doors.

iampuking · June 13th, 2009, 03:00 AM

The specification for the new Thameslink trains asks for 2 sets of doors per car per side, like the current 319s. AFAIK, Crossrail will use the same trains as Thameslink when it begins service.

aquablue · September 14th, 2009, 01:37 AM

Regarding using the tube over crossrail, I'm sure some people would prefer to use crossrail instead of the central line given they will use fullsize stock and it might be a more pleasant ride.

rheintram · September 14th, 2009, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue

Regarding using the tube over crossrail, I'm sure some people would prefer to use crossrail instead of the central line given they will use fullsize stock and it might be a more pleasant ride.

I agree. However, other things have to be put into consideration as well:
- Which line/stations are more easily accessible?
- Waiting time
- Interchange options etc.

Usually daily commuters are very quick at finding out, which way is the shortest. In many cities you can see, that commuters often use trams instead of metro systems, because while they are slower, quite often you need to change less. However, I'm sure crossrail will become a valueable addition also to innercity transport and might just shorten travel time to work for many people.

aquablue · September 14th, 2009, 05:54 PM

That's one thing London really lacks...they could do with trams as an alternative to the tube and busses.

ajw373 · September 14th, 2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aquablue

That's one thing London really lacks...they could do with trams as an alternative to the tube and busses.

Crossrail is all about bringing people in from the outer reaches without the need for them to change modes. Trams will not do that.

BTW London does have trams, out in the southern suburbs.

ajw373 · September 14th, 2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rheintram

I agree. However, other things have to be put into consideration as well:
- Which line/stations are more easily accessible?
- Waiting time
- Interchange options etc.

Usually daily commuters are very quick at finding out, which way is the shortest. In many cities you can see, that commuters often use trams instead of metro systems, because while they are slower, quite often you need to change less. However, I'm sure crossrail will become a valueable addition also to innercity transport and might just shorten travel time to work for many people.

The tube will remain as the mode of choice for people wanting quick short trips.

Crossrail will cater for those wanting to come from or go to places further along the line. Just like the RER in Paris.

aquablue · September 15th, 2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajw373

The tube will remain as the mode of choice for people wanting quick short trips.

Crossrail will cater for those wanting to come from or go to places further along the line. Just like the RER in Paris.

I for one would go out of my way to use the more comfortable crossrail even to go from paddington to oxford street instead of the tube.

The RER's rolling stock is pityful and ancient compared to the nice new trains London is getting --- its rolling stock is horribly outdated looking.

iampuking · February 11th, 2010, 05:55 PM

Since Paris gets seperate threads for the RER and Metro, I figured a seperate thread for the Tube/DLR and Overground/Thameslink would be necessary. I have moved all the info from the "LONDON | New Stations" and "LONDON | New Trains" regarding the Overground/Thameslink from there to here. I think that this thread can be a combination between news updates and discussion. New infastructure/trains that is open to the public will be added by me to the first post, and individual posts within the thread can be update pics from behind the scenes, for instance the inauguration a new bridge for the future Thameslink programme.

London Overground

The London Overground is a medium capacity urban rail system. It's core network is a soon-to-be-completed loop around Inner London with spurs coming off of the loop at several points. Because of the layout of the tracks at Clapham Junction and Dalston Junction, trains will not do a full loop of the system.

It is operated by a private rail franchise and the tracks and infastructure are maintained by a public company called Network rail. It was created in order to brand several different lines together under an umbrella term of London Overground and to therefore increase the quality and ridership.

Most of the route, as the name suggests, is above ground. However, the eastern arm of the system is soon to be opened which will utilise a section of railway known as the East London Railway, this runs from Whitechapel to Surrey Quays and is fully underground, having previously been a under used underground line. The East London Railway is connected to the rest of the network by a new section of railway that utilises an old viaduct through the Inner London areas of Hoxton and Shoreditch. It is due to open mid 2010. South of the East London Railway the trains off of the new section will use established NR routes, opening up swathes of South London to North London and completing the loop around London. As well as new routes, the system's rolling stock is currently being replaced and frequency being increased.

System

Richmond Station:

satguru at Flickr
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Willesden Junction Station:

ca1951rr at Flickr
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Highbury & Islington Station:

Harjinder Singh at Flickr
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Stratford Station:

Harjinder Singh at Flickr
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Station Upgrades

Shepherd's Bush Overground Station

Opened: 28th of September, 2008.

The first of the stations to be opened to serve Westfield shopping centre in West London. It was built on an existing section of track known as the West London line, part of the (nearly) orbital London Overground network. The line runs between Willesden Junction and Clapham Junction, the station is in between Kensington (Olympia) and Willesden Junction. Not only does the station serve the shopping centre but the Central line station of the same name (see info below), which is just 100m across the road. Currently the station only sees trains every half an hour, but this is set to increase in the future.

The station's opening was delayed by almost a year because of a risible argument over the platform width. I think the original station was set to be served by a private company (Silverlink) but during the construction this company was handed over to TfL, a public company that runs much of London's transport network, and re-branded as London Overground. The station itself was funded by the developers of the shopping centre (Westfield) and they built one of the platforms incredibly narrow. TfL refused to run trains into it unless Westfield widened the platform. They gave in and had to rebuild the entire platform as they could not have this valuable transport link not serving their shopping centre.

The station's ticket hall is an uninspiring glass and steel box, and the platforms are dull concrete affairs, but there isn't much to expect when the station is sandwiched between a motorway and a massive shopping centre...

Entrance:

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Ticket hall:

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Overbridge, looking southbound:

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Platforms:

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New London Overground platforms at Stratford

Opened: 15th of April, 2009.

These new platforms replaced the existing Overground platforms at the 'low level' section of the station. The old 'low level' platforms are needed by the DLR as the DLR is being extended along a piece of track formerly used by London Overground (but with a different identity) this DLR route will come from Canning Town. The new platforms have been constructed to the north of the station, and are accessed by a spur off of the former route. The new platforms are of the island type and can accomodate 6 car trains but currently the trains are 3 cars. They are bay platforms and there is a crossover to the west of them for trains to reverse.

The platforms features a short canopy that is, like most new developments in London, bland. There is a lift for disabled access, and stairs for the able-bodied. The lift and stairs lead to an underground subway which is used to access the rest of the station.

Old platforms:

Mackenzie 377 at Flickr
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New Platforms:

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New Platforms from afar:

Harjinder Singh - Man in Blue at Flickr
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Imperial Wharf Station

Opened: 27th of September, 2009.

This station was built in order to serve an up-and-coming brownfield site. Calls for a new station have existed for 15 years and a private investor involved with building apartment blocks in the local area agreed to fund the building of this station. The adjacent area is largely unserved by public transport and so this station is desperately needed. The station is served by Southern commuter rail services and London Overground orbital rail services, both operate half-hourly on this route which is know as the West London line, but services are intended to increase in frequency in the next few years. London Overground now run their brand new Class 378 trains into the station, view one of them arriving into the station here. Not far along the line is Shepherd's Bush station which opened nearly exactly a year ago and was featured in this thread. This is all part of a process of Transport For London in turning the West London line into an important rail artery.

The station is situated on a viaduct, the ticket hall is at street level and sits underneath the viaduct, entrances to the ticket hall are from either side. The lifts are on either side of the viaduct and the stairs spiral around the lift shafts, the whole thing is clad in translucent blue-green glass. Passengers have to pass through ticket barriers to enter the stairs/lifts. The lifts offer step-free access for the disabled, handicapped, and those with bags and children. The platforms are sheltered by a short blue-green canopy at the ticket hall end. The station is also one of the few London Overground stations to extensively feature the new London Overground roundel.

Entrance:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Platforms:

tompagenet at Flickr
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East London Railway Extension and Refurbishment

Opened: 27th of April, 2010.

Many proposals to extend the existing East London line had been bandied about up until the early 21st century. In the 21st century mayor of london Ken Livingstone wanted to build an extension in order to provide transport links to an area of London that had been deprived of them for decades. He also wanted the 'Orbirail' concept to be fulfilled; a secondary ring around Central London that would allow passengers to avoid travelling through it. Ken Livingstone proposed that the extension would be funded by private enterprise and so it was finalised.

The proposal involved extending the existing East London Underground line (New Cross/New Cross Gate - Whitechapel) northwards along existing but abandoned railway infrastructure known as the Kingsway Viaduct. And southwards along existing National Rail South London commuter lines. In 2012, the line will also be extended along the existing NR route called the South London line to Clapham Junction. This means that there will be a full loop of London operated by London Overground, a train company under the Transport for London umbrella. Because it is operated by London Overground it is under the common Oyster ticket fare.

Major construction work started on the project in 2008. It required the closing of the East London line for 3 years from 2007 the aging A Stock which used the old line at this time was replaced. It involved building several new bridges and 4 new stations. Once leaving the existing East London Railway line at Whitechapel the tracks climb out of the sub-surface cutting and onto a bridge over the main line tracks out of the major railway terminus London Liverpool Street. The line then stops at Shoreditch High Street, a stations that replaces the old Shoreditch station on the East London line which had one of the lowest usages of any London Underground station. This was mostly attributed to it being in a inaccessible area away from the populated area of Shoreditch, and because it was on a largely badly connected stub line. The station at Shoreditch High Street is on a viaduct in a brownfield site, therefore, to inhibit future development work around the station without the station having to close, it is entirely enclosed in concrete, giving the impression it is an Underground station.

After Shoreditch the line curves northwards and joins the Victorian Kingsway Viaduct. This viaduct previously served commuter trains from Broad Street station which sat adjacent to the aforementioned Liverpool Street terminus. It closed because of low passenger usage. To allow the viaduct to be used by trains again it required the rebuilding and refurbishment of several sections of the bridge. The next station on the line is Hoxton. It is the first station to be built which didn't already exist. It features a ticket hall that opens on both sides underneath the railway arches. The next station along the line is Haggerston, a completely new station on the site of a long-closed station of the same name. The platforms are in a similar glass and metal style as Hoxton station. The ticket hall is in a beige building which deliberately mimics Charles Holden designed art deco station buildings built for London Underground in the twenties, thirties and fourties. The next station northwards is called Dalston Junction and is subterranean. It is proposed that commercial developments will be built on top of the station in the future. The ticket hall opens on both sides, one of the entrances is to provide easy access to a bus station that is to built there. The other side is a main street entrance. Passengers pass through the ticket hall which, unlike on the DLR, has ticket gates. They then descend stairs in front of a massive London Overground roundel to the subterranean platforms. This station has four platforms, the two inner platforms are terminus platforms and the two on the outside are through platforms aiming to be opened when the line is extended northward via spurs to the existing North London line in 2011. Like all new stations on the route, the colour scheme is orange and there is full access for the disabled.

The stations on the rest of the line have been around for over a century and have been refurbished. However, this was not that necessary as the line itself had already been refurbished in the nineties when a connection with the Jubilee line Extension at Canada Water was built. The existing section of line has had it's signalling and track replaced to National Rail standards, instead of London Underground standards that it previously adhered to. At Whitechapel a new footbridge was built over the tracks. This station is a rarity on London's network as the 'London Overground' passes beneath the 'London Underground'. Also, at Shadwell a new entrance was built to provide quicker interchange to the DLR station of the same name. South of Surrey Quays, a flying junction has been created in order to allow the service to be extended to Clapham Junction in 2012, as previously mentioned. At New Cross Gate, a flyover had to be built over the current commuter routes, as the 'slow' lines which the London Overground has been extended over were on the outside of the formation, with the fast tracks in the middle. A view of the whole project is available here. The frequency of the line is as follows:

12tph Dalston Junction - Surrey Quays
8tph Surrey Quays - Sydenham
4tph on the branches.

From 2012

16tph Dalston Junction - Surrey Quays
8tph Dalston Junction - Highbury & Islington
8tph Surrey Quays - Sydenham
4tph on the branches.

All routes are travelled by brand new four car (80m) Class 378s.

Infastructure:

Tracks out of Dalston Junction station and onto the Kingsway Viaduct

Normal For Norfolk at Flickr
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Route around the Shoreditch area:

diamond geezer at Flickr
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diamond geezer at Flickr
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Bridge over Shoreditch High Street itself:

wirewiping at Flickr
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Bridge over the mainlines out of Liverpool Street terminus:

wirewiping at Flickr
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wirewiping at Flickr
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Flyover at New Cross Gate:

unravelled at Flickr
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Stations:

Dalston Junction Entrance:

Normal For Norfolk at Flickr
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Dalston Junction Ticket Hall:

macspite at Flickr
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Adam UXB Smith at Flickr
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Dalston Junction Platforms:

quarkadia at Flickr
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Haggerston Entrance:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Haggerston Ticket Hall:

Cybermyth13 at Flickr
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macspite at Flickr
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tompagenet at Flickr
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Haggerston Platforms:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Hoxton Entrance:

tompagenet at Flickr
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MiEs L. at Flickr
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Hoxton Ticket Hall:

macspite at Flickr
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macspite at Flickr
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Hoxton Platforms:

darquati at Flickr
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Hoxton View:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Shoreditch High Street Entrance:

maethorechannen at Flickr
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Shoreditch High Street Ticket Hall:

tompagenet at Flickr
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chimpomatic at Flickr
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Shoreditch High Street Platforms:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Refurbished Whitechapel Platforms:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Refurbished Shadwell Entrance:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Refurbished Shadwell Platforms:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Refurbished Wapping Entrance:

Martin Deutsch at Flickr
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Refurbished Wapping Ticket Hall:

macspite at Flickr
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Refurbished Wapping Platforms:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Refurbished Rotherhithe Entrance:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Refurbished Rotherhithe Platforms:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Refurbished Canada Water Platforms:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Refurbished Surrey Quays Entrance:

Ewan-M at Flickr
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Refurbished Surrey Quays Ticket Hall:

macspite at Flickr
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Refurbished Surrey Quays Platforms:

wirewiping at Flickr
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New Cross Platform:

tompagenet at Flickr
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New Cross Gate Platform:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Train Updates

New London Overground trains (British Rail Class 378 + British Rail Class 170)

First Passenger Journey: 29th July, 2009/10th July, 2010.

The Class 378s are needed to replace the dated Class 313s in use on most of the London Overground. These trains are dual voltage as the network uses overhead wires and third rail electrification. They feature improved passenger security, OPO (one person operation), air-conditioning, "tube"-style interior with longitudinal seating (intended to make the network more urban in appearance) and are fully walk-through. They are a re-design of existing trains currently in service elsewhere in the UK known as Electrostars, the 378s will be known imaginatively as Capitalstars. The trains are painted in the brand new London Overground livery, the colour theme being orange. This theme is repeated in the interior of the trains and is rather retro, reminiscent of unrefurbished D Stock trains on London Underground's District line. The trains are currently 3-cars but will be increased to 4-cars in 2011. A sub-fleet of 378s will operate on the extended East London Railway when it opens in 2010, but will not be dual voltage, being electrified solely via third rail.

The Class 170s are diesel trains intended to operate on the "GOBLIN" service from Gospel Oak to Barking, they are 2 car trains and are not a new design, instead they are a new batch of existing trains (Turbostars) already operating in the UK. They will be branded in a similar manner to the new Class 378s, however they have no entered service and therefore there are no pictures available. If you want to view them, search for Class 170s and imagine them painted in the London Overground colours.

Old Trains (British Rail Class 313s)

Exterior:

mattbuck4950 at Flickr
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Interior:

markhillary at Flickr
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Video:

New Trains (British Rail Class 378s)

Exterior:

Electrostar Lewis at Flickr
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Interior:

Richard Forward at Flickr
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tompagenet at Flickr
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Video:

Old Trains (British Rail Class 150s)

Exterior:

Dan86401 at Flickr
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Video:

New Trains (British Rail Class 172s)

Exterior:

Richard and Gill at Flickr
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Video:

Thameslink

Thameslink is a suburban/main line railway route that is unique in that it travels directly through Central London, much like the Paris RER. The route uses the National Rail Midland Mainline south of Bedford and nearly the entire National Rail Brighton Mainline.

The route through Central London consists of a combination between existing rights of way that existed from the Victorian times (Blackfriars station/bridge, Farringdon station - Kings Cross section) and sections opened when the whole route was inaugurated in 1988 (City Thameslink station). This piecemeal nature in the development of the route means that there are several steep gradients and tight curves when travelling through Central London and therefore the trains rarely reach a particularly high speed. The line offers interchange with several London Underground lines at Kings Cross St Pancras, Farringdon, Blackfiars and London Bridge and has easy access to the City at City Thameslink station.

The line itself is undergoing major regeneration in order to increase it's capacity from 8-10tph (4-8 car trains) to 24tph (8-12 car trains) in the peaks and to open it up to new destinations in the North and South. This involves construction works at every station on the Central London section except City Thameslink, having been long enough for 12 car trains since it opened in the eighties. Currently, the only station ready for 12 car trains is Kings Cross (Low Level) which replaced the old station in early 2008. To increase capacity it is also necessary to eliminate bottlenecks in the southern section of the route, this involves demolishing several old buildings in the Borough area of London in order to build a new viaduct to carry the trains.

System (light blue and dark purple is already operating, pink is future):

Luton Station:

Steve Simmonds at Flickr
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West Hampstead Station:

Luanne McCall at Flickr
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Kings Cross (Low Level) Station:

IanVisits at Flickr
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Route between Kings Cross and Farringdon where the Underground lines pass over the Thameslink route:

oobrien at Flickr
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Farringdon Station:

Harjinder Singh - Man in Blue at Flickr
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City Thameslink Station:

Mackenzie 377 at Flickr
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Route between City Thameslink and Blackfriars:

tompagenet at Flickr
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Blackfriars Station:

Mackenzie 377 at Flickr
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Bridge over the Thames between Blackfriars and London Bridge:

jovike at Flickr
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London Bridge Station:

marky1969 at Flickr
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Gatwick Airport Station:

seadipper at Flickr
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Brighton Station:

Elsie esq. at Flickr
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Station Updates

St Pancras (Low Level) Station

Opened: 9th of December, 2007.

This is a re-sited station. The original Thameslink station was opened with the rest of the route in 1988. The old station had short, narrow platforms, that were open to the elements and too short for 12 car trains (for the Thameslink Programme), poor access for disabled and was unintegrated with the intercity stations at Kings Cross and St Pancras (the latter was undergoing expansion for Eurostar services). However, it had direct access to the Victoria tube line. The original station could not be expanded without affecting the Circle, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines beside it, so it had to be re-sited.

The new station was built in a 'cut-and-cover' box underneath the new section of St Pancras station. It is large and spacious, but rather stark and utilitarian, reminding me of an RER station. The old ticket hall is used as an extra entrance to the tube station at King's Cross to the Victoria line. The old platforms will remain and be used as a means of emergency escape.

Old station entrance:

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Old station platforms:

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Old station interchange tunnel to the Victoria line:

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New station entrance:

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New station overbridge:

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New station platforms:

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Mitcham Eastfields Station

Opened: 2nd of June, 2008.

Built to serve an area poorly served by public transport. The station features a bland modular design by network rail and unusual staggered platforms. The platforms were built in this way because of the level crossing; trains cross over the crossing before stopping at the station, this means road traffic is less disrupted. The station typically has 4 trains per hour per direction off peak.

Platforms with level crossing between:

richardavis at Flickr
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Train Updates

New Thameslink Trains (British Rail Class 377s)

First Passenger Journey: 27th February, 2009.

Thameslink acquired 23 x 4 car units of Class 377s in order to replace some of the dated Class 319 trains that were made for the Thameslink route when it first opened in the eighties. As well as replacing some carriages, they are too increasing the size of the Thameslink fleet meaning that only 6 trains during the peak hours are 4 cars long as opposed to 8 cars long. These units are intended as a stop-gap measurement before a fleet of NXEMUs (Next Generation Electric Multiple Units) which will replace all trains on Thameslink and will be solely in 8 car or 12 car legnths. These units are said to be the same as the ones on order for Crossrail.

The units are painted in the purple and pink livery of First Capital Connect, a private company that operates the system and others around North London. The trains are fully air conditioned and have access for the disabled. The trains are also fully walkthrough, but there are small passages as gaps between the carriages rather than a continual carriage. The trains are dual voltage meaning they can operate on the 25V AC overhead wire supply in North London and the 750V DC third rail supply in South London, the switchover between the two supplies is done at Farringdon station.

Old Trains (British Rail Class 319s)

Exterior:

Matthew Black at Flickr
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Interior:

mattbuck4950 at Flickr
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Video:

New Trains (British Rail Class 377s)

Exterior:

Juliang's Pix at Flickr
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Interior:

Matthew Black at Flickr
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Video:

Crossrail

Give it 7 years.

Manchester Planner · February 11th, 2010, 06:24 PM

I would also add the fairly short Great Northern & City Line:

It's like a tube line - in fact it was for a time part of the Metropolitan and then the Northern lines of the Underground. Today it's part of the national rail network.

Manchester Planner · February 11th, 2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iampuking

Crossrail

Give it 7 years.

Quite, but for now, maps of the route, etc, can be found here:

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/the-railway/crossrail-maps

(red is under ground, blue is above ground)

iampuking · February 11th, 2010, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manchester Planner

I would also add the fairly short Great Northern & City Line:

It's like a tube line - in fact it was for a time part of the Metropolitan and then the Northern lines of the Underground. Today it's part of the national rail network.

I'm not sure... It's essentially a suburban NR line that goes underground for the last few stations... It doesn't go through London, or is solely in the London boundary.

Manchester Planner · February 11th, 2010, 06:35 PM

I'm thinking along the lines of the characteristics of the line - it's not Underground/DLR and it's not a heavy, surface mainline. But yes, it's now part of the national railways, although it was until quite recently its own little underground line, with trains running Moorgate-Finsbury Park!

Ah well, I thought it worth a mention, as a sui generis line, though I suppose it doesn't really fit in this thread. Oh hum!

***NCT*** · February 12th, 2010, 11:47 PM

I travelled on the GER today between Stratford and Romford on a stopping service. The train seemed to weave side to side all over the place and I'm not sure if the suburban and intercity services run on their own dedicated lines? I guess in the future Crossrail will be separate from the mainline GER services, like the District and C2C?

iampuking · February 12th, 2010, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCT

I travelled on the GER today between Stratford and Romford on a stopping service. The train seemed to weave side to side all over the place and I'm not sure if the suburban and intercity services run on their own dedicated lines? I guess in the future Crossrail will be separate from the mainline GER services, like the District and C2C?

Well I believe the GER has four tracks and has two "fast" and two "slow" so I don't think the suburban and intercity lines are seperated per se. Crossrail will just run on the current "slow" lines.

iampuking · February 13th, 2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manchester Planner

I'm thinking along the lines of the characteristics of the line - it's not Underground/DLR and it's not a heavy, surface mainline. But yes, it's now part of the national railways, although it was until quite recently its own little underground line, with trains running Moorgate-Finsbury Park!

Ah well, I thought it worth a mention, as a sui generis line, though I suppose it doesn't really fit in this thread. Oh hum!

I guess with the cross-platform interchange at Highbury & Islington with the Victoria line also makes it seem more "tubey", but I don't think there is any point adding it here especially when you consider it has absolutely no developments for the future...

***NCT*** · February 13th, 2010, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iampuking

Well I believe the GER has four tracks and has two "fast" and two "slow" so I don't think the suburban and intercity lines are seperated per se. Crossrail will just run on the current "slow" lines.

The thing is I'm not entirely sure the trains stick to their respective fast and slow lines at the moment? I seem to recall seeing faster trains passing on both my left and right, unless there are other explanations?

iampuking · February 13th, 2010, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCT

The thing is I'm not entirely sure the trains stick to their respective fast and slow lines at the moment? I seem to recall seeing faster trains passing on both my left and right, unless there are other explanations?

I'm not the best person to ask (Tubeman is) but i'd assume it might have something to do with engineering works? Also, you might be unsure of what the fast lines actually are, sometimes they're on the outside and other times they're on the inside of the track formation.

CairnsTony · February 13th, 2010, 11:11 AM

I heard somewhere that the Tories (if they came to power) would 'review' Crossrail as part of their plans for spending cuts, possibly cancelling it altogether. How true or accurate do UK posters reckon this is? Or is the project too far advanced for this to be likely?

It would be very sad for London and the South-East as a whole if the project was cancelled. I'd be interested to hear others' views on this.

June 12th, 2009, 10:13 AM	#82
MelbourneCity Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,544 Likes (Received): 1	Will the new Thameslink trains have 4 doors per carriage, as present on the 319s, or 6, or even 8? If Thameslink units have more doors, there is no reason why Crossrail also should not have a greater number of doors. __________________ Vires Acquirit Eundo

February 11th, 2010, 05:55 PM	#90
iampuking Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,767 Likes (Received): 1	LONDON \| Network Rail: Overground, Thameslink, Crossrail Since Paris gets seperate threads for the RER and Metro, I figured a seperate thread for the Tube/DLR and Overground/Thameslink would be necessary. I have moved all the info from the "LONDON \| New Stations" and "LONDON \| New Trains" regarding the Overground/Thameslink from there to here. I think that this thread can be a combination between news updates and discussion. New infastructure/trains that is open to the public will be added by me to the first post, and individual posts within the thread can be update pics from behind the scenes, for instance the inauguration a new bridge for the future Thameslink programme. London Overground The London Overground is a medium capacity urban rail system. It's core network is a soon-to-be-completed loop around Inner London with spurs coming off of the loop at several points. Because of the layout of the tracks at Clapham Junction and Dalston Junction, trains will not do a full loop of the system. It is operated by a private rail franchise and the tracks and infastructure are maintained by a public company called Network rail. It was created in order to brand several different lines together under an umbrella term of London Overground and to therefore increase the quality and ridership. Most of the route, as the name suggests, is above ground. However, the eastern arm of the system is soon to be opened which will utilise a section of railway known as the East London Railway, this runs from Whitechapel to Surrey Quays and is fully underground, having previously been a under used underground line. The East London Railway is connected to the rest of the network by a new section of railway that utilises an old viaduct through the Inner London areas of Hoxton and Shoreditch. It is due to open mid 2010. South of the East London Railway the trains off of the new section will use established NR routes, opening up swathes of South London to North London and completing the loop around London. As well as new routes, the system's rolling stock is currently being replaced and frequency being increased. System Richmond Station: satguru at Flickr image hosted on flickr Willesden Junction Station: ca1951rr at Flickr image hosted on flickr Highbury & Islington Station: Harjinder Singh at Flickr image hosted on flickr Stratford Station: Harjinder Singh at Flickr image hosted on flickr Station Upgrades Shepherd's Bush Overground Station Opened: 28th of September, 2008. The first of the stations to be opened to serve Westfield shopping centre in West London. It was built on an existing section of track known as the West London line, part of the (nearly) orbital London Overground network. The line runs between Willesden Junction and Clapham Junction, the station is in between Kensington (Olympia) and Willesden Junction. Not only does the station serve the shopping centre but the Central line station of the same name (see info below), which is just 100m across the road. Currently the station only sees trains every half an hour, but this is set to increase in the future. The station's opening was delayed by almost a year because of a risible argument over the platform width. I think the original station was set to be served by a private company (Silverlink) but during the construction this company was handed over to TfL, a public company that runs much of London's transport network, and re-branded as London Overground. The station itself was funded by the developers of the shopping centre (Westfield) and they built one of the platforms incredibly narrow. TfL refused to run trains into it unless Westfield widened the platform. They gave in and had to rebuild the entire platform as they could not have this valuable transport link not serving their shopping centre. The station's ticket hall is an uninspiring glass and steel box, and the platforms are dull concrete affairs, but there isn't much to expect when the station is sandwiched between a motorway and a massive shopping centre... Entrance: image hosted on flickr Ticket hall: image hosted on flickr Overbridge, looking southbound: image hosted on flickr Platforms: image hosted on flickr New London Overground platforms at Stratford Opened: 15th of April, 2009. These new platforms replaced the existing Overground platforms at the 'low level' section of the station. The old 'low level' platforms are needed by the DLR as the DLR is being extended along a piece of track formerly used by London Overground (but with a different identity) this DLR route will come from Canning Town. The new platforms have been constructed to the north of the station, and are accessed by a spur off of the former route. The new platforms are of the island type and can accomodate 6 car trains but currently the trains are 3 cars. They are bay platforms and there is a crossover to the west of them for trains to reverse. The platforms features a short canopy that is, like most new developments in London, bland. There is a lift for disabled access, and stairs for the able-bodied. The lift and stairs lead to an underground subway which is used to access the rest of the station. Old platforms: Mackenzie 377 at Flickr image hosted on flickr New Platforms: image hosted on flickr New Platforms from afar: Harjinder Singh - Man in Blue at Flickr image hosted on flickr Imperial Wharf Station Opened: 27th of September, 2009. This station was built in order to serve an up-and-coming brownfield site. Calls for a new station have existed for 15 years and a private investor involved with building apartment blocks in the local area agreed to fund the building of this station. The adjacent area is largely unserved by public transport and so this station is desperately needed. The station is served by Southern commuter rail services and London Overground orbital rail services, both operate half-hourly on this route which is know as the West London line, but services are intended to increase in frequency in the next few years. London Overground now run their brand new Class 378 trains into the station, view one of them arriving into the station here. Not far along the line is Shepherd's Bush station which opened nearly exactly a year ago and was featured in this thread. This is all part of a process of Transport For London in turning the West London line into an important rail artery. The station is situated on a viaduct, the ticket hall is at street level and sits underneath the viaduct, entrances to the ticket hall are from either side. The lifts are on either side of the viaduct and the stairs spiral around the lift shafts, the whole thing is clad in translucent blue-green glass. Passengers have to pass through ticket barriers to enter the stairs/lifts. The lifts offer step-free access for the disabled, handicapped, and those with bags and children. The platforms are sheltered by a short blue-green canopy at the ticket hall end. The station is also one of the few London Overground stations to extensively feature the new London Overground roundel. Entrance: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Platforms: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr East London Railway Extension and Refurbishment Opened: 27th of April, 2010. Many proposals to extend the existing East London line had been bandied about up until the early 21st century. In the 21st century mayor of london Ken Livingstone wanted to build an extension in order to provide transport links to an area of London that had been deprived of them for decades. He also wanted the 'Orbirail' concept to be fulfilled; a secondary ring around Central London that would allow passengers to avoid travelling through it. Ken Livingstone proposed that the extension would be funded by private enterprise and so it was finalised. The proposal involved extending the existing East London Underground line (New Cross/New Cross Gate - Whitechapel) northwards along existing but abandoned railway infrastructure known as the Kingsway Viaduct. And southwards along existing National Rail South London commuter lines. In 2012, the line will also be extended along the existing NR route called the South London line to Clapham Junction. This means that there will be a full loop of London operated by London Overground, a train company under the Transport for London umbrella. Because it is operated by London Overground it is under the common Oyster ticket fare. Major construction work started on the project in 2008. It required the closing of the East London line for 3 years from 2007 the aging A Stock which used the old line at this time was replaced. It involved building several new bridges and 4 new stations. Once leaving the existing East London Railway line at Whitechapel the tracks climb out of the sub-surface cutting and onto a bridge over the main line tracks out of the major railway terminus London Liverpool Street. The line then stops at Shoreditch High Street, a stations that replaces the old Shoreditch station on the East London line which had one of the lowest usages of any London Underground station. This was mostly attributed to it being in a inaccessible area away from the populated area of Shoreditch, and because it was on a largely badly connected stub line. The station at Shoreditch High Street is on a viaduct in a brownfield site, therefore, to inhibit future development work around the station without the station having to close, it is entirely enclosed in concrete, giving the impression it is an Underground station. After Shoreditch the line curves northwards and joins the Victorian Kingsway Viaduct. This viaduct previously served commuter trains from Broad Street station which sat adjacent to the aforementioned Liverpool Street terminus. It closed because of low passenger usage. To allow the viaduct to be used by trains again it required the rebuilding and refurbishment of several sections of the bridge. The next station on the line is Hoxton. It is the first station to be built which didn't already exist. It features a ticket hall that opens on both sides underneath the railway arches. The next station along the line is Haggerston, a completely new station on the site of a long-closed station of the same name. The platforms are in a similar glass and metal style as Hoxton station. The ticket hall is in a beige building which deliberately mimics Charles Holden designed art deco station buildings built for London Underground in the twenties, thirties and fourties. The next station northwards is called Dalston Junction and is subterranean. It is proposed that commercial developments will be built on top of the station in the future. The ticket hall opens on both sides, one of the entrances is to provide easy access to a bus station that is to built there. The other side is a main street entrance. Passengers pass through the ticket hall which, unlike on the DLR, has ticket gates. They then descend stairs in front of a massive London Overground roundel to the subterranean platforms. This station has four platforms, the two inner platforms are terminus platforms and the two on the outside are through platforms aiming to be opened when the line is extended northward via spurs to the existing North London line in 2011. Like all new stations on the route, the colour scheme is orange and there is full access for the disabled. The stations on the rest of the line have been around for over a century and have been refurbished. However, this was not that necessary as the line itself had already been refurbished in the nineties when a connection with the Jubilee line Extension at Canada Water was built. The existing section of line has had it's signalling and track replaced to National Rail standards, instead of London Underground standards that it previously adhered to. At Whitechapel a new footbridge was built over the tracks. This station is a rarity on London's network as the 'London Overground' passes beneath the 'London Underground'. Also, at Shadwell a new entrance was built to provide quicker interchange to the DLR station of the same name. South of Surrey Quays, a flying junction has been created in order to allow the service to be extended to Clapham Junction in 2012, as previously mentioned. At New Cross Gate, a flyover had to be built over the current commuter routes, as the 'slow' lines which the London Overground has been extended over were on the outside of the formation, with the fast tracks in the middle. A view of the whole project is available here. The frequency of the line is as follows: 12tph Dalston Junction - Surrey Quays 8tph Surrey Quays - Sydenham 4tph on the branches. From 2012 16tph Dalston Junction - Surrey Quays 8tph Dalston Junction - Highbury & Islington 8tph Surrey Quays - Sydenham 4tph on the branches. All routes are travelled by brand new four car (80m) Class 378s. Infastructure: Tracks out of Dalston Junction station and onto the Kingsway Viaduct Normal For Norfolk at Flickr image hosted on flickr Route around the Shoreditch area: diamond geezer at Flickr image hosted on flickr diamond geezer at Flickr image hosted on flickr Bridge over Shoreditch High Street itself: wirewiping at Flickr image hosted on flickr Bridge over the mainlines out of Liverpool Street terminus: wirewiping at Flickr image hosted on flickr wirewiping at Flickr image hosted on flickr Flyover at New Cross Gate: unravelled at Flickr image hosted on flickr Stations: Dalston Junction Entrance: Normal For Norfolk at Flickr image hosted on flickr Dalston Junction Ticket Hall: macspite at Flickr image hosted on flickr Adam UXB Smith at Flickr image hosted on flickr Dalston Junction Platforms: quarkadia at Flickr image hosted on flickr Haggerston Entrance: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Haggerston Ticket Hall: Cybermyth13 at Flickr image hosted on flickr macspite at Flickr image hosted on flickr tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Haggerston Platforms: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Hoxton Entrance: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr MiEs L. at Flickr image hosted on flickr Hoxton Ticket Hall: macspite at Flickr image hosted on flickr macspite at Flickr image hosted on flickr Hoxton Platforms: darquati at Flickr image hosted on flickr Hoxton View: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Shoreditch High Street Entrance: maethorechannen at Flickr image hosted on flickr Shoreditch High Street Ticket Hall: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr chimpomatic at Flickr image hosted on flickr Shoreditch High Street Platforms: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Whitechapel Platforms: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Shadwell Entrance: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Shadwell Platforms: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Wapping Entrance: Martin Deutsch at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Wapping Ticket Hall: macspite at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Wapping Platforms: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Rotherhithe Entrance: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Rotherhithe Platforms: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Canada Water Platforms: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Surrey Quays Entrance: Ewan-M at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Surrey Quays Ticket Hall: macspite at Flickr image hosted on flickr Refurbished Surrey Quays Platforms: wirewiping at Flickr image hosted on flickr New Cross Platform: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr New Cross Gate Platform: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Train Updates New London Overground trains (British Rail Class 378 + British Rail Class 170) First Passenger Journey: 29th July, 2009/10th July, 2010. The Class 378s are needed to replace the dated Class 313s in use on most of the London Overground. These trains are dual voltage as the network uses overhead wires and third rail electrification. They feature improved passenger security, OPO (one person operation), air-conditioning, "tube"-style interior with longitudinal seating (intended to make the network more urban in appearance) and are fully walk-through. They are a re-design of existing trains currently in service elsewhere in the UK known as Electrostars, the 378s will be known imaginatively as Capitalstars. The trains are painted in the brand new London Overground livery, the colour theme being orange. This theme is repeated in the interior of the trains and is rather retro, reminiscent of unrefurbished D Stock trains on London Underground's District line. The trains are currently 3-cars but will be increased to 4-cars in 2011. A sub-fleet of 378s will operate on the extended East London Railway when it opens in 2010, but will not be dual voltage, being electrified solely via third rail. The Class 170s are diesel trains intended to operate on the "GOBLIN" service from Gospel Oak to Barking, they are 2 car trains and are not a new design, instead they are a new batch of existing trains (Turbostars) already operating in the UK. They will be branded in a similar manner to the new Class 378s, however they have no entered service and therefore there are no pictures available. If you want to view them, search for Class 170s and imagine them painted in the London Overground colours. Old Trains (British Rail Class 313s) Exterior: mattbuck4950 at Flickr image hosted on flickr Interior: markhillary at Flickr image hosted on flickr Video: New Trains (British Rail Class 378s) Exterior: Electrostar Lewis at Flickr image hosted on flickr Interior: Richard Forward at Flickr image hosted on flickr tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Video: Old Trains (British Rail Class 150s) Exterior: Dan86401 at Flickr image hosted on flickr Video: New Trains (British Rail Class 172s) Exterior: Richard and Gill at Flickr image hosted on flickr Video: Thameslink Thameslink is a suburban/main line railway route that is unique in that it travels directly through Central London, much like the Paris RER. The route uses the National Rail Midland Mainline south of Bedford and nearly the entire National Rail Brighton Mainline. The route through Central London consists of a combination between existing rights of way that existed from the Victorian times (Blackfriars station/bridge, Farringdon station - Kings Cross section) and sections opened when the whole route was inaugurated in 1988 (City Thameslink station). This piecemeal nature in the development of the route means that there are several steep gradients and tight curves when travelling through Central London and therefore the trains rarely reach a particularly high speed. The line offers interchange with several London Underground lines at Kings Cross St Pancras, Farringdon, Blackfiars and London Bridge and has easy access to the City at City Thameslink station. The line itself is undergoing major regeneration in order to increase it's capacity from 8-10tph (4-8 car trains) to 24tph (8-12 car trains) in the peaks and to open it up to new destinations in the North and South. This involves construction works at every station on the Central London section except City Thameslink, having been long enough for 12 car trains since it opened in the eighties. Currently, the only station ready for 12 car trains is Kings Cross (Low Level) which replaced the old station in early 2008. To increase capacity it is also necessary to eliminate bottlenecks in the southern section of the route, this involves demolishing several old buildings in the Borough area of London in order to build a new viaduct to carry the trains. System (light blue and dark purple is already operating, pink is future): Luton Station: Steve Simmonds at Flickr image hosted on flickr West Hampstead Station: Luanne McCall at Flickr image hosted on flickr Kings Cross (Low Level) Station: IanVisits at Flickr image hosted on flickr Route between Kings Cross and Farringdon where the Underground lines pass over the Thameslink route: oobrien at Flickr image hosted on flickr Farringdon Station: Harjinder Singh - Man in Blue at Flickr image hosted on flickr City Thameslink Station: Mackenzie 377 at Flickr image hosted on flickr Route between City Thameslink and Blackfriars: tompagenet at Flickr image hosted on flickr Blackfriars Station: Mackenzie 377 at Flickr image hosted on flickr Bridge over the Thames between Blackfriars and London Bridge: jovike at Flickr image hosted on flickr London Bridge Station: marky1969 at Flickr image hosted on flickr Gatwick Airport Station: seadipper at Flickr image hosted on flickr Brighton Station: Elsie esq. at Flickr image hosted on flickr Station Updates St Pancras (Low Level) Station Opened: 9th of December, 2007. This is a re-sited station. The original Thameslink station was opened with the rest of the route in 1988. The old station had short, narrow platforms, that were open to the elements and too short for 12 car trains (for the Thameslink Programme), poor access for disabled and was unintegrated with the intercity stations at Kings Cross and St Pancras (the latter was undergoing expansion for Eurostar services). However, it had direct access to the Victoria tube line. The original station could not be expanded without affecting the Circle, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines beside it, so it had to be re-sited. The new station was built in a 'cut-and-cover' box underneath the new section of St Pancras station. It is large and spacious, but rather stark and utilitarian, reminding me of an RER station. The old ticket hall is used as an extra entrance to the tube station at King's Cross to the Victoria line. The old platforms will remain and be used as a means of emergency escape. Old station entrance: image hosted on flickr Old station platforms: image hosted on flickr Old station interchange tunnel to the Victoria line: image hosted on flickr New station entrance: image hosted on flickr New station overbridge: image hosted on flickr New station platforms: image hosted on flickr Mitcham Eastfields Station Opened: 2nd of June, 2008. Built to serve an area poorly served by public transport. The station features a bland modular design by network rail and unusual staggered platforms. The platforms were built in this way because of the level crossing; trains cross over the crossing before stopping at the station, this means road traffic is less disrupted. The station typically has 4 trains per hour per direction off peak. Platforms with level crossing between: richardavis at Flickr image hosted on flickr Train Updates New Thameslink Trains (British Rail Class 377s) First Passenger Journey: 27th February, 2009. Thameslink acquired 23 x 4 car units of Class 377s in order to replace some of the dated Class 319 trains that were made for the Thameslink route when it first opened in the eighties. As well as replacing some carriages, they are too increasing the size of the Thameslink fleet meaning that only 6 trains during the peak hours are 4 cars long as opposed to 8 cars long. These units are intended as a stop-gap measurement before a fleet of NXEMUs (Next Generation Electric Multiple Units) which will replace all trains on Thameslink and will be solely in 8 car or 12 car legnths. These units are said to be the same as the ones on order for Crossrail. The units are painted in the purple and pink livery of First Capital Connect, a private company that operates the system and others around North London. The trains are fully air conditioned and have access for the disabled. The trains are also fully walkthrough, but there are small passages as gaps between the carriages rather than a continual carriage. The trains are dual voltage meaning they can operate on the 25V AC overhead wire supply in North London and the 750V DC third rail supply in South London, the switchover between the two supplies is done at Farringdon station. Old Trains (British Rail Class 319s) Exterior: Matthew Black at Flickr image hosted on flickr Interior: mattbuck4950 at Flickr image hosted on flickr Video: New Trains (British Rail Class 377s) Exterior: Juliang's Pix at Flickr image hosted on flickr Interior: Matthew Black at Flickr image hosted on flickr Video: Crossrail Give it 7 years. Last edited by iampuking; July 22nd, 2010 at 02:37 AM.

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June 11th, 2009, 09:19 PM	#81
iampuking Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,767 Likes (Received): 1	Got the Thameslink at rush hour today because of the tube strike... Dwell times were noticeably longer compared to the tube at Kings Cross, and it wasn't even jam packed. Most likely because of the seating and door layout... I'm guessing that the 'Thameslink programme' is being designed by politicians and therefore they haven't a clue about what kind of layout is effective for 24tph and more.

June 13th, 2009, 03:00 AM	#83
iampuking Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 2,767 Likes (Received): 1	The specification for the new Thameslink trains asks for 2 sets of doors per car per side, like the current 319s. AFAIK, Crossrail will use the same trains as Thameslink when it begins service.

September 14th, 2009, 01:37 AM	#84
aquablue Advocate of high design Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,539 Likes (Received): 15	Regarding using the tube over crossrail, I'm sure some people would prefer to use crossrail instead of the central line given they will use fullsize stock and it might be a more pleasant ride.

September 14th, 2009, 05:54 PM	#86
aquablue Advocate of high design Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,539 Likes (Received): 15	That's one thing London really lacks...they could do with trams as an alternative to the tube and busses.

February 11th, 2010, 06:24 PM	#91
Manchester Planner Chief Bureaucrat Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,848 Likes (Received): 1	I would also add the fairly short Great Northern & City Line: It's like a tube line - in fact it was for a time part of the Metropolitan and then the Northern lines of the Underground. Today it's part of the national rail network.

February 11th, 2010, 06:35 PM	#94
Manchester Planner Chief Bureaucrat Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,848 Likes (Received): 1	I'm thinking along the lines of the characteristics of the line - it's not Underground/DLR and it's not a heavy, surface mainline. But yes, it's now part of the national railways, although it was until quite recently its own little underground line, with trains running Moorgate-Finsbury Park! Ah well, I thought it worth a mention, as a sui generis line, though I suppose it doesn't really fit in this thread. Oh hum!

February 12th, 2010, 11:47 PM	#95
*NCT* Not Cwite There Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Shanghai, London, Nottingham Posts: 5,068 Likes (Received): 82	I travelled on the GER today between Stratford and Romford on a stopping service. The train seemed to weave side to side all over the place and I'm not sure if the suburban and intercity services run on their own dedicated lines? I guess in the future Crossrail will be separate from the mainline GER services, like the District and C2C?

February 13th, 2010, 11:11 AM	#100
CairnsTony Registered User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Cairns, Qld. Posts: 213 Likes (Received): 1	I heard somewhere that the Tories (if they came to power) would 'review' Crossrail as part of their plans for spending cuts, possibly cancelling it altogether. How true or accurate do UK posters reckon this is? Or is the project too far advanced for this to be likely? It would be very sad for London and the South-East as a whole if the project was cancelled. I'd be interested to hear others' views on this.