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Old March 13th, 2012, 07:13 PM   #1061
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Quote:
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Will the existing ticket hall closed??
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Old March 13th, 2012, 09:22 PM   #1062
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Don't think so.

Re: the double deck issue. I personally don't see the point in double deck trains since some of the busiest metro lines in the world, such as the Yamanote line in Tokyo do not need double deck trains. If anything they inhibit the capacity of metro lines as there is greater conflicting movements within the train which usually contributes to longer dwell times. Long trains with plenty of doors, high frequency, and all longitudinal seating will have the highest capacity.
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Old March 13th, 2012, 09:32 PM   #1063
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Don't think so.

Re: the double deck issue. I personally don't see the point in double deck trains since some of the busiest metro lines in the world, such as the Yamanote line in Tokyo do not need double deck trains.
The busiest line in Europe however does use double deckers.

It depends a bit on how you organise your network. Crossrail seems conceived as a high capacity metro. However, on could ask if it would not be better to try to run trains through it from as many lines as possible, to create one seat rides in to the city from more suburbs. That's the RER concept... And that uses double deckers.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 03:36 AM   #1064
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Isn't the busiest line in Europe the WCML?

(it IS the busiest intercity route... On earth)
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #1065
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Isn't the busiest line in Europe the WCML?

(it IS the busiest intercity route... On earth)
I doubt the WCML is the busiest intercity route world wide, but it is a busy route, true. How many TPH does the line have?

AFAIK the busiest railway in Europe is the RER-A in Paris, with 1.2 million passengers a day. That line uses double deckers, and it was this line I was referring to.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #1066
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London - Milton Keynes section (have omitted LOROL services)

9tph Virgin
6tph London Midland
1tph Southern
2tph freight

off peak, each direction

Not the busiest by specific impulse, but the busiest by virtue of the route being so long, and including so many junctions - technically half of all services through Birmingham New Street are included in the WCML's total figures, even though (obviously) much of it is nothing really to do with it.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 04:15 PM   #1067
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So what kind of trains will Crossrail use? More like London Overground trains perhaps..
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Old March 14th, 2012, 06:46 PM   #1068
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So what kind of trains will Crossrail use? More like London Overground trains perhaps..
Or S stock. I'd imagine that they would want to have the extra seats, while maintaining masses of standing space, that the seating layout in S stock provides.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #1069
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In terms of seating arrangements perhaps, but neither S Stock or Overground trains can go very quick. It will be more like the Thameslink replacement IMO, with decent suspension and 100mph traction systems suitable for the regional ends of the network.

But to answer the original question, we don't know yet, the concept is being developed at the moment.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:17 PM   #1070
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Quote:
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But to answer the original question, we don't know yet, the concept is being developed at the moment.

Did they award the contract yet whether it be Siemens, Bombardier, or another?
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Old March 15th, 2012, 03:57 AM   #1071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
It depends a bit on how you organise your network. Crossrail seems conceived as a high capacity metro. However, on could ask if it would not be better to try to run trains through it from as many lines as possible, to create one seat rides in to the city from more suburbs. That's the RER concept... And that uses double deckers.
One seat rides from the suburbs to central London do already exist. It didn't need a tunnel for that. That aside, it would be foolish to funnel more lines through the Crossrail route. 24 tph are proposed. Which means that the tracks will be very well used with a little bit room to manoeuvre. If you want more through services through central London you have to dig more tunnels.

As for double deckers, they create at least as many problems as they solve. There is a reason why high-frequent rail services are almost entirely run by single-deck EMUs.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 09:35 AM   #1072
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That aside, it would be foolish to funnel more lines through the Crossrail route. 24 tph are proposed. Which means that the tracks will be very well used with a little bit room to manoeuvre.
In the Münich S-Bahn tunnel they run 30tph, with 7 different lines using the tunnel.
They do use single level stock though, but have platforms on both sides in the main stations.

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As for double deckers, they create at least as many problems as they solve. There is a reason why high-frequent rail services are almost entirely run by single-deck EMUs.
I am aware double deckers aren't the anwer to everything. But the RER is often mentioned in the context of Crossrail discussions, which makes me ask questions on how much it really will be like an RER.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 11:41 AM   #1073
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It won't, it'll be like Crossrail. It will have Crossrail stock and provide Crossrail services, which won't be double decker. The trains will be heavier duty than usual metro stock, because it will be a higher-speed metro than is usual - the central line is already there doing metro-speed metro services, and therefore comparisons with the RER or S-Bahn are limited in value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M II A II R II K View Post
Did they award the contract yet whether it be Siemens, Bombardier, or another?
No, they are working on the concept. Once they have the concept they'll put it out to tender, and the manufacturers will draw up designs and submit them to the Department for Transport, a winner will be chosen....

You'll have to wait a few years for your answer.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 02:10 PM   #1074
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Quote:
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It won't, it'll be like Crossrail. It will have Crossrail stock and provide Crossrail services, which won't be double decker.
It seems to me that you meant Thameslink rather than Crossrail.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #1075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
In the Münich S-Bahn tunnel they run 30tph, with 7 different lines using the tunnel.
They do use single level stock though, but have platforms on both sides in the main stations.
München demonstrates very well that it is rather disadvantageous to clog up the tunnel section with too many service lines. The set-up of its network leaves the S-Bahn München to run a pretty fragile schedule. Sharing tracks with mainline services on many branches and a trunk route operating at capacity is a receipt for delays. I'm glad that this pattern won't be repeated in London.

Quote:
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I am aware double deckers aren't the anwer to everything. But the RER is often mentioned in the context of Crossrail discussions, which makes me ask questions on how much it really will be like an RER.
The double-decker on the RER are an exception rather than a rule. These are the only double-decker trainsets I know which are used on high capacity lines.
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Old March 15th, 2012, 10:22 PM   #1076
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Kings Cross Station

image hosted on flickr

Kings-Cross-22-©-Phil-Adams by GODDAMNINT, on Flickr

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Kings-Cross-6-©-Hufton-and-Crow by GODDAMNINT, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

Kings-Cross-2-©-Hufton-and-Crow by GODDAMNINT, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Inside the western concourse by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Security cameras by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Inside the western concourse by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Ticket booking hall by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Inside the western concourse by IanVisits, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Roof and wayfinding sign by IanVisits, on Flickr

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Ticket gates to Platforms 0-8 by IanVisits, on Flickr

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Inside the western concourse by IanVisits, on Flickr
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Old March 16th, 2012, 12:35 AM   #1077
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Old March 16th, 2012, 11:27 AM   #1078
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
It seems to me that you meant Thameslink rather than Crossrail.
That I did. thx
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Old March 17th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #1079
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Wow, amazing. The king cross station is amazing. I like the modern architecture combined with the old.
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Old March 17th, 2012, 06:25 PM   #1080
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Quote:
Crossrail’s tunnel boring machines ‘ready to start’ digging

The Mayor of London and the Secretary of State for Transport today revealed the giant 1,000 tonne tunnel boring machines that will carve Crossrail’s tunnels under the capital.

The first of eight enormous machines, each 150 metres long and weighing 1,000 tonnes, will begin their journey to the Royal Oak Portal in west London from where, next week, they will start tunnelling 6.4 km (four miles) east to Farringdon via Bond Street and Tottenham Court Road.

Over the next three years, eight tunnel boring machines will construct a total of 21km (13 miles) of twin-bore tunnel under the capital.

More than 50 UK companies are supplying materials and services for the construction of Crossrail’s western tunnels between Royal Oak and Farringdon.

The first tunnel boring machine will be named Phyllis after Phyllis Pearsall who created the London A-Z. She walked 23,000 streets and a total of 3,000 miles to compile the map. The second tunnel boring machine will be named Ada after Ada Lovelace who was one of the earliest computer scientists.

They were among the three winning pairs of names as voted by the British public. The other winners were Victoria and Elizabeth and Sophia and Mary – these names will be used to name the next four tunnel boring machines.
http://www.rail.co/2012/03/13/crossr...start-digging/



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17365934
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