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Old July 24th, 2015, 08:11 PM   #1801
dimlys1994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimlys1994 View Post
More on Farringdon Crossrail station construction:
http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2015...er-farringdon/
Video from the same place, from Londonist:

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Old July 29th, 2015, 08:42 PM   #1802
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Whitechapel station redelopment continues, with new steel beans installed over Overground platforms. Service was restored on Monday, next closure - 1 and 2 August:
http://anonw.com/2015/07/29/whitecha...9th-july-2015/



























Two more pics - webcam views:
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/construction/webcam-gallery



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Old July 29th, 2015, 08:47 PM   #1803
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Custom House Crossrail station construction continues - I think that station will have platform screen doors and it seems that track laying has just began on London-bound direction:
http://anonw.com/2015/07/29/custom-h...9th-july-2015/























Crossrail webcam view this morning:
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/construction/webcam-gallery

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Old July 30th, 2015, 08:15 PM   #1804
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What I've been thinking is that London is a late bloomer when it comes to branding its suburban rail, especially if you consider that London and its environs is one of the most classic commuter lands in the world and it's even more true the more expensive London becomes. Berlin has one S-Bahn, Paris has one RER, but London needs three names for its non-terminus suburban rail and it seems like all these names are supposed to have specific advertisement effects.

For Thameslink, it's like saying that yes, you can actually penetrate through inner-city London after all and Thames River for that matter as well and treat it like a new tube line, but (as of 1990) don't count on any extra links, you entitled bastards.
For Overground, it's like saying that the tube is growing onto the upside of the soil to your vicinity, making your place a part of the tube network as well.
For Crossrail, it's like saying that this is such a cool new thing that we'll order a new stock of trains for it and totally can't serve it with the same trains as the Overground.

What do you think will be the moment when the various urban Network Rail systems in London will finally be united under one brand? A brand that unites both the cross-city lines and the orbital lines, with a united numeration system for all the lines? What do you imagine the London S-Bahn/RER/Cercanias to be called?
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Old July 30th, 2015, 08:37 PM   #1805
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But Paris' suburban rail isn't all under the RER branding. I'm not sure about Berlin but in Paris there are quite a few non RER lines.
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Old July 30th, 2015, 09:44 PM   #1806
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You mean the Transilien lines, well, the end in termini and I actually excluded them.

EDIT: Auto-correction from a smartphone is sub-optimum at times.

Last edited by Skalka; July 31st, 2015 at 06:57 PM.
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Old July 31st, 2015, 04:26 PM   #1807
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From Rail Journal:

Quote:
http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=529

First Siemens Thameslink train arrives in Britain
Friday, July 31, 2015





THE first of a fleet of class 700 Desiro City trains being built by Siemens at its Krefeld plant in Germany for the expanded cross-London Thameslink service has arrived at the new Three Bridges depot near Gatwick Airport

Siemens and Govia Thamselink Railway will now start testing the train to prepare for the fleet's entry into service initially on the Bedford – London – Gatwick Airport - Brighton corridor in spring next year.

When reconstruction of London Bridge station and other track improvement works have been completed in 2018, the Thameslink network will be expanded to include Cambridge and Peterborough, as well as other destinations in Kent and Sussex

...
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Old August 1st, 2015, 04:59 PM   #1808
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Progress on London Bridge station:

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Originally Posted by Shardview77 View Post
Station frontage on St Thomas St starting to come together.






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Old August 1st, 2015, 07:49 PM   #1809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skalka View Post
What do you think will be the moment when the various urban Network Rail systems in London will finally be united under one brand? A brand that unites both the cross-city lines and the orbital lines, with a united numeration system for all the lines? What do you imagine the London S-Bahn/RER/Cercanias to be called?
Back in the late 1980s, it was called Network SouthEast. It had the same colour scheme as LU (blue, white, red), with joint ticketing (TravelCard) and network map.

Shamefully, privatisation shattered it into various TOCs. However, elements of it still exits today through tickets such as TravelCards, GoldCards, Network Railcard.

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Old August 1st, 2015, 09:09 PM   #1810
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Again on London Bridge station:

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Originally Posted by *Nurse* View Post
Thanks for the updates Shardview77!
That made my day, and inspired me to go there this morning. Here's what they've done with some of those pieces:



And what's left to do:

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Old August 4th, 2015, 05:49 PM   #1811
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New photos from Crystal Palaca station:
http://anonw.com/2015/08/03/a-statio...eds-its-lifts/













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Old August 5th, 2015, 07:35 PM   #1812
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More on Abbey Wood station construction:
http://anonw.com/2015/08/04/new-trac...-wood-station/











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Old August 5th, 2015, 07:56 PM   #1813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by link_road_17/7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skalka View Post
What do you think will be the moment when the various urban Network Rail systems in London will finally be united under one brand? A brand that unites both the cross-city lines and the orbital lines, with a united numeration system for all the lines? What do you imagine the London S-Bahn/RER/Cercanias to be called?
Back in the late 1980s, it was called Network SouthEast. It had the same colour scheme as LU (blue, white, red), with joint ticketing (TravelCard) and network map.

Shamefully, privatisation shattered it into various TOCs. However, elements of it still exits today through tickets such as TravelCards, GoldCards, Network Railcard.

That's not really comparable to the RER or the S-Bahn really, both frequency and ridership are significantly smaller. This is more about a regional rail network.

And for the matter, the RER does not group all suburban rail networks in the Paris region. Only lines going all through the center underground with a high frequency.

RER A and RER B lines are actually more comparable to the Central or Piccadilly lines in London than they are with South East regional rail. They have similar length and number of stations, but both RER lines have a much higher ridership.

Here is for instance a map of the Northern network of Paris regional rail. Very highly comparable to the South East map you posted (except it's partial I know).

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Old August 5th, 2015, 09:27 PM   #1814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clery View Post
That's not really comparable to the RER or the S-Bahn really, both frequency and ridership are significantly smaller. This is more about a regional rail network.
Ridership isn't actually that different:

RER+Transilien ridership 2013: 1.198 billion
South East rail ridership 2014-15: 1.15 billion
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Old August 5th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #1815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoses View Post
Ridership isn't actually that different:

RER+Transilien ridership 2013: 1.198 billion
South East rail ridership 2014-15: 1.15 billion
You're comparing apples and oranges here. RER+Transilien is strictly urban, serving strictly the Paris urban area, it's a lot more restrictive than the overall English South East rail netwok. Not to mention that RER (especially the one of the RATP) and SNCF Transilien are strongly different in nature, but that's another debate.

To compare with South East, you would need to add together both Transilien and TERs from Picardy, Upper Normandy, Centre Val-de-Loire, Champagne and Bourgogne.

Services are not structured the same way, but it doesn't change the fact that taking the train from London to Southampton is much more similar to taking the train from Paris to Amiens than it is to taking the RER from Châtelet to La Défense. And I know what I'm talking about because I've done all those trips by myself. South East rail is regional rail, it cannot be compared to Paris RER or Berlin S-Bahn.
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Old August 11th, 2015, 06:11 PM   #1816
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More on Crossrail - new Tottenham Court Road station ticket hall:
http://anonw.com/2015/08/10/the-sout...n-takes-shape/









Liverpool Street Crossrail station:
http://anonw.com/2015/08/10/crossrai...treet-station/















Same Broadgate entrance from Crossrail's webcam:



Bond Street station:





Paddington station:





Farringdon station:





And Whitechapel station:



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Old August 12th, 2015, 07:00 PM   #1817
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I share Mr. Schwandl's bemusement with the British fetish for monochromatic confusion, especially regarding how Overground, DLR and District Line services are portrayed on maps:

http://schwandl.blogspot.de/2015/08/...in-london.html
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Old August 13th, 2015, 11:15 AM   #1818
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More London Bridge station renders:
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...rk-renaissance



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Old August 13th, 2015, 03:21 PM   #1819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clery View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges here. RER+Transilien is strictly urban, serving strictly the Paris urban area, it's a lot more restrictive than the overall English South East rail netwok. Not to mention that RER (especially the one of the RATP) and SNCF Transilien are strongly different in nature, but that's another debate.

To compare with South East, you would need to add together both Transilien and TERs from Picardy, Upper Normandy, Centre Val-de-Loire, Champagne and Bourgogne.

Services are not structured the same way, but it doesn't change the fact that taking the train from London to Southampton is much more similar to taking the train from Paris to Amiens than it is to taking the RER from Châtelet to La Défense. And I know what I'm talking about because I've done all those trips by myself. South East rail is regional rail, it cannot be compared to Paris RER or Berlin S-Bahn.
Yes, that's why I don't take Network SouthEast as an answer. If it were an acceptable answer, it wouldn't have that many branches with its own names. I don't know if taking that many TERs like Clery said were really prudent, but let's say that there's a very good reason why Berlin S-Bahn GmbH is separate from DB Regio Nordost which stretches over the rural half of the former GDR from the Baltic Sea down to Lusatia.

And as we're at it, our German S-Bahn networks may be run as part of the local DB Regio chapter, but only as a part of it and not its entirety. No, you need a brand inside Network SouthEast.

Last edited by Skalka; August 13th, 2015 at 03:27 PM.
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Old August 13th, 2015, 04:13 PM   #1820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skalka View Post
What I've been thinking is that London is a late bloomer when it comes to branding its suburban rail, especially if you consider that London and its environs is one of the most classic commuter lands in the world and it's even more true the more expensive London becomes.
Why do commuters need one brand of rail? Surely they would investigate service frequencies and journey times from the station regardless?
Quote:
Berlin has one S-Bahn, Paris has one RER, but London needs three names for its non-terminus suburban rail
Because they do different things?
Quote:
Originally Posted by link_road_17/7 View Post
Back in the late 1980s, it was called Network SouthEast. It had the same colour scheme as LU (blue, white, red), with joint ticketing (TravelCard) and network map.
Indeed - we had one brand - London isn't a late bloomer here, but perhaps was ahead of the curve before privatisation (which cannot be undone until we leave the EU).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clery View Post
That's not really comparable to the RER or the S-Bahn really
Yet it was an even more unified monobrand concept that Skalka thought was a good idea - not just suburban, but all the commuter routes as well (almost all of which run at similar frequencies to inner services).
Quote:
both frequency and ridership are significantly smaller.
Really? Compare inner and outer suburban frequencies and ridership in London and you'll find they are similar. Why should the branding stop at the edge of the urban area? Because in Paris the good frequencies end there? What a poor reason if true!

You mentioned, in another post, Waterloo - Southampton. That's a route served by 3 white trains every hour, and one slower train. Does Amiens really get 4tph TER service to Paris (which is what you compared it to)? There's tube stations with lower frequencies, and journey times to Waterloo that aren't much shorter (certainly when I used to travel Amersham - Waterloo - Winchester the SWT leg was slightly quicker than the Chiltern-Bakerloo leg and taking the Met rather than the Chiltern would have meant I could have got to Soton Airport Pkwy from Waterloo in less time than I spend getting to Waterloo).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clery View Post
You're comparing apples and oranges here.
But you are trying to make an orange into an apple. They are apple and orange networks: of course there is apple and orange branding!
Quote:
RER+Transilien is strictly urban, serving strictly the Paris urban area, it's a lot more restrictive than the overall English South East rail netwok.
Indeed, but the desire was to see uniform branding for London and Link Road simply showed the uniform brand there once was.
Quote:
Not to mention that RER (especially the one of the RATP) and SNCF Transilien are strongly different in nature, but that's another debate.
But does that difference not apply to different London brands? Yes (once you bring back NSE).

Does that difference apply to the difference between SWT blue train routes and SWT red train routes? Not really - other than the outer suburban colour gets treated better as they pay more, what with coming from beyond the urban area.
Quote:
Services are not structured the same way
Exactly! Oh, you don't mean between cities, but between different (fairly arbitrary) lines on a map that you've made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skalka View Post
Yes, that's why I don't take Network SouthEast as an answer. If it were an acceptable answer, it wouldn't have that many branches with its own names.
London is a big place. There are lots of rail routes serving it. The measily 6 names to service groups that NSE had is merely one more than the RER has now!

See also this issue that was brought up about the Overground not having subbrands:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
I share Mr. Schwandl's bemusement with the British fetish for monochromatic confusion
It's Skalka and other continentals who not only want monochromatic (ie fewer branches with their own names) networks, but monochromaticism between cities with their "that's an orange, why do you not have apples" questioning, not accepting "because an orange is what we have" as an answer.
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