தமிழ்நாடு வரலாறு - Tamilnadu History Updates & Discussions

[Alphastallion]

we must be proud of the achievements of our ancestors,they have created lot of engineering marvels such as temples ,great naval ships.i believe to create all marvels they would definitely supported by engineering theorems.But seeing the our history ,our forefathers have documented love to lust.so there has to be definitely engineering text to support.and i feel there was lacking of continuity in the history of Tamils..alike all the western nations..why is it so,?

[Mad 4 Madras]

Vedic literature and the Gulf of Cambay discovery
- By DAVID FRAWLEY

An old article

THE RECENT find of a submerged city in the Gulf of Cambay, perhaps as old as 7500 BC, serves to highlight the existence of southern sources for the civilisation of ancient India. The Gulf of Cambay find is only the latest in a series that includes Lothal (S.R. Rao), Dholavira (R.S. Bisht) and others in Gujarat. These discoveries have been pushing the seats of ancient Indian civilisation deeper into the southern peninsula. We should not be surprised if more such sites are discovered in South India, especially the coastal regions, for the south has always played a significant if neglected role in ancient India going back to Vedic times.
I have argued for such a coastal origin for Vedic civilisation in my recent book Rig Veda and the History of India. This is largely because of the oceanic character of Vedic symbolism in which all the main Rig Vedic Gods as well as many of the Vedic rishis have close connections with samudra or the sea. In fact, the image of the ocean pervades the whole of the Rig Veda. Unfortunately many scholars who put forth opinions on ancient India seldom bother to study the Vedas in the original Sanskrit and few know the language well enough to do so. The result is that their interpretation of Vedic literature is often erroneous, trusting out of date and inaccurate interpretations from the Nineteenth century like the idea that the Vedic people never new the sea!
Literary evidence

The Rig Veda states that "All the hymns praise Indra who is as expansive as the sea" (RV I.11.1) Agni wears the ocean as his vesture (RV VIII 102.4-6). The Sun is called the ocean (RV V.47.3). Soma is called the first ocean (RV IX.86.29). Varuna specifically is a God of the sea (RV I.161.14). These are just a few examples of out of well over a hundred references to samudra in the Rig Veda alone, including references to oceans as two, four or many (RV VI.50.13). This is obviously the poetry of a people intimately associated with the sea and not of any nomads from land-locked Central Asia or Eurasia.
Vedic seer families like the Bhrigus are descendants of Varuna, the God of the sea as the first Bhrigu is called Bhrigu Varuni — Bhrigu, the son of Varuna. The teachings of Varuna to Bhrigu are found in the Taittiriya Upanishad and Taittiriya tradition of the Yajur Veda, which has long been most popular in South India. The recent find at sea in the Gulf of Cambay is near Baroach or Bhrigu-kachchha, the famous ancient city of the very same Bhrigus.
These oceanic connections extend to other important Vedic rishis as well. In the Rig Veda, Agastya, who became the main rishi of South India, has twenty-five hymns in the first book of the Rig Veda and is mentioned in the other books as well. He is the elder brother of Vasishta who himself has the largest number of hymns in the text (about a hundred), those of the seventh book. Both rishis are said to have been born in a pot or kumbha, which may be a vessel or ship (RV VII.33.10-13). Vasishta is specifically connected to Varuna who was said to travel on a ship in the sea (RV VII.88.4-5). Both Vasishta and Agastya are descendants of Mitra and Varuna, the God of the sea.
Vishvamitra in the Rig Veda (IIII.53.16) mentions the sage Pulasti, who was regarded as the progenitor of Ravana and Kubera and whose city, Pulasti-Pura was located in ancient Sri Lanka. He is mentioned along with Jamadagni, another common Rig Vedic sage and the father of Parshurama, the sixth incarnation of Lord Vishnu, before Rama and Krishna, whose main sphere of activity was in the south of India.
Manu himself, the Vedic primal sage and king, is a flood figure and the Angirasas, the other main seer family apart from the Bhrigus, join him in his ship according to Puranic mythology. Southern peoples like the Yadus and Turvashas were said to have been glorified by Indra (RV X.49.8) and are mentioned a number of times in the Rig Veda as great Vedic peoples. So we have ample ancient literary evidence for the Vedic seer and royal families as connected with the ocean and southern regions.
The Cambay site is in the ancient delta of the now dry Sarasvati River, one branch of which flowed into the Gulf of Cambay, showing that this site was part of the greater Sarasvati region and culture, which was the main location for Harappan cities in the 3300-1900 BCE period. Such an ocean front was important for maritime trade for the inland regions to the north. In this regard, important Vedic kings like Sudas were said to receive tribute from the sea (RV I.47.6).
When the Greeks under Alexander came to India in the Fourth century BCE, the Greek writer Megasthenes in his Indika, fragments of which are recorded in several Greek writings, mentioned that the Indians (Hindus) had a record of 153 kings going back over 6400 years (showing that the Hindus were conscious of the great antiquity of their culture even then). This would yield a date that now amounts to 6700 BCE, a date that might be reflected in the Gulf of Cambay site which has been tentatively dated to 7500 BCE. So the old Vedic-Puranic king lists may not be that far off after all!
Material evidence

A few scholars, like Witzel in the United States — in spite of such massive evidence as the Sarasvati River and its intimate connection to Vedic literature — still try to separate Vedic culture from India and attribute it to a largely illiterate and nomadic culture that migrated into India from the northwest of the country in the post-Harappan period (after 1500 BCE). Ignoring all other evidence that connects the Vedic and Harappan, they point out the importance of the horse in the Rig Veda and argue that not enough evidence of horses has been found in Harappan sites to prove a Vedic connection. They fall back upon this one shot argument to ignore any other evidence to the contrary.
However, one should note that these invasionists or migrationists are even more deficient in horse evidence to prove their own theory. There is no trail of horse bones or horse encampments into ancient India from Afghanistan during the 1500-1000 BCE period that is required for their theory of Aryan intrusion. In fact, there is no solid evidence for such a movement of peoples at all in the form of camps, skeletal remains or anything else.
Those who claim that Vedic culture must have originated outside India because of its lauding of the horse are even more lacking in horse evidence. The real problem is not `no horse at Harappa' but `no horse evidence, in fact no real evidence of any kind, to prove any Aryan migration/invasion'. It has been convincingly shown that what the Rig Veda with its seventeen-ribbed horse (RV I.162.18) describes is a native Indian breed and not any Central Asian or Eurasian horse that has eighteen ribs.
The Rig Veda mentions many Indian animals like the water buffalo (Mahisha), which is said to be the main animal sacred to Soma (RV IX.96.6), which does occur commonly on Harappan seals. The humped Brahma bull (Vrisha, Vrishabha), another common Harappan depiction, is the main animal of Indra, the foremost of the Vedic Gods. Elephants are also mentioned.
Most of the animals depicted on Harappan seals are mythical, not zoological specimens anyway. Most common is a one-horned animal that is reflected in the one-horned boar or Varaha of the Mahabharata and the boar incarnation of Lord Vishnu. Many other Harappan depictions are of animals with multiple heads or half-animal/half-human figures. This is similar to the depictions in Vedic imagery which largely consist of mythical animals of this type. For example, Harappan seals portray a three-headed bull-like animal. Such an animal is described in the Rig Veda (III.56.6).
A smokescreen

The horse issue is meant as a smokescreen to avoid facing the facts of the Sarasvati River and the many new archaeological sites in India. These show no such break in the continuity of civilisation in the region as an Aryan invasion/migration requires, including the existence of fire altars and fire worship from the early Harappan period. Vedic and Puranic literature itself records the shift of the centre of culture from the Sarasvati to the Ganga at the end of the Vedic period, referring to the drying up of the river. Scholars like Witzel would have the Vedic people coming into India after the Sarasvati was already gone and yet making the river their ancestral homeland and most sacred region!
Vedic literature is the largest preserved from the ancient world, dwarfing in size anything left by other cultures like Egypt, Greece or Babylonia. The Harappan-Sarasvati urban civilisation of India was by far the largest of its time (3100-1900 BCE) in the ancient world spreading from Punjab to Kachchh. We can no longer separate this great literature and this great civilisation, particularly given that both were based on the Sarasvati River, whose authenticity as a historical river before 1900 BCE has been confirmed by numerous geological studies. This great Vedic literature requires a great urban culture to explain it, just as the great Harappan urban culture requires a literature to explain it. Both come from the same region and cannot be separated.
Finally it is sad to note how intellectuals in India are quick to denigrate the extent and antiquity of their history, even when geological evidence like the Sarasvati River or archaeological evidence like the Harappan and Cambay sites are so clear. However one may interpret these, the truth that civilisation in India was quite ancient and profound cannot be ignored. I don't think there is any other nation on earth that would be so negative if such ancient glories were found in their lands.

Any other news about Gulf of Cambay?

[satishanu]

Inscriptions found at an ancient temple at Tirumukkoodal village in neighbouring Kancheepuram District have revealed the existence of a 15-bed hospital and vedic school around 900 years ago.

The inscriptions at Venkatesa Perumal Temple found by epigraphist K V Subramanya Iyer spoke about 'athura-salai', a hospital attached to this temple which treated students of the vedic schools and temple staff, Archaeological Survey of India sources said.

The temple, which has been declared a protected monument and maintained by ASI, is located at the confluence of Palar, Vegavathi and Cheyyar rivers. The hospital, called Vira-Cholan, had 15 beds and a large staff, comprising a physician named Kodandaraman Ashvathaman-Bhattan, a surgeon, several nurses who attended on patients, servants who fetched medicinal herbs and a barber.

The payment given to hospital staff and the names of about 20 Ayurvedic medicines stored in this hospital are given in detail in the informative epigraph. According to the epigraphs in the shrine, Tirumukkudal was situated in the ancient territorial sub-division called Madhurantaka-Chaturvedimangalam which was part of Kalatur-Kottam, a district of Jayamkonda-chola-mandalam.

The temple, which once reverberated with the sound of Vedic chanting and recitation of Sanskrit texts, now stands mute testimony to the glorious times of the Pallavas and the Cholas, whose kings, besides being great conquerors and administrators, strove for the propagation of learning and literature.

Source: http://expressbuzz.com/states/tamiln...nd/202165.html

[Marathaman]

David Frawley

[karthikarthik]

Came across a blog on 99 Tamil flowers. OMG we are not sure about some missing(extinct?) flowers

http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010...ers_slideshow/

[Mad 4 Madras]

Originally Posted by Marathaman

David Frawley

We need other source If anyone can produce I would be happy. Gulf of Cambay is indeed interesting.

[Arul Murugan]

Time line of Tamil Script

[Arasu]

Informative post.

It is clear that writing in palm script in the later centuries have contributed to the change of shape of letters from a linear form to more rounded form.

The linear form of writing using to avoid damaging the palm leaves with the sharp stylus that was used for transcribing. During the later centuries, the quantum of writing would have increased due to newer texts as well as maintaining the old ones.

[dhandapanik]

Originally Posted by karthikarthik

Came across a blog on 99 Tamil flowers. OMG we are not sure about some missing(extinct?) flowers

http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2010...ers_slideshow/

I remember surya saying all these tamil flowers in one parattu vizha for MK. I think he said the same names in Poovellam kettupar(?) film.

Edited later..
Author has mentioned the video from Poovellam kettupar in the blog:
http://karkanirka.wordpress.com/2009...flowers_index/

[ChennaiIndian]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...ow/6581764.cms

CHENNAI: Workers of the city projects divisi on of the state highways department unwittingly became excavators as they stumbled upon an ancient granite structure, possibly a lime crushing stone -- while digging a trench for constructing a subway on Dargah Road at Old Pallavaram.

Following earlier finds of cairns by the Archaeological Survey of India, Old Pallavaram has been notified as a megalithic site. ASI officials will inspect the grinding stone to ascertain its age and possible connection with pre-historic communities that are believed to have lived here.

On Friday night, a few workers with an earth mover were digging the western end of the proposed Rs 17.9 crore vehicular subway. They heard an unusual sound and realised the machine had hit a stone object, which was later found at a depth of three metres. The men swiftly removed the sand and pulled out the object with the earth mover and it turned out to be a large crushing stone in the form of a granite wheel. The monolithic structure, is 12 feet in diameter and weighs about 4.5 tonnes. They alerted the site engineers who informed their higher officials and revenue officials of Alandur taluk. Revenue officials examined the stone on Friday. Hundreds of residents thronged the site to catch a glimpse of the giant circular object. "It looks like a major find. We've informed officials of the state archaeological department about the discovery," Alandur tahsildar K Sowrirajan told TOI.

...

[karthikarthik]

http://www.frontline.in/stories/20101008272006400.htm

[ChennaiIndian]

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...icle793444.ece

A model of the Kudavolai method of elections conducted by Rajaraja Cholan was the cynosure of all eyes at the exhibition. The model depicts a person putting a palm leaf chip into a pot.

What attracted visitors was the eligibility of the candidates who could contest. A note under the model stated that those in the age group of 35 to 70 could contest.

...

[ChennaiIndian]

http://www.thehindu.com/arts/history...icle793420.ece



While the king's Brihadisvara temple gets all the attention, the queen's temple hardly draws attention

While the Chola king Rajaraja I and the Brihadisvara temple he built at Thanjavur receive the entire spotlight in the millennium celebrations, another temple located 15 km away and built at the same time by his principal queen Lokamahadevi stands in the shadow of fame.

Within the compound of Panchanadeeswarar temple at Thiruvaiyaru is Vadakailasam (north kailasam) or Lokamahadevisvaram, as it is known in the inscriptions. Completed in 1006 C.E, four years before the Brihadisvara temple was finished, this modest temple built by Lokamahadevi is no comparison to that of the temple at Thanjavur in size, but it is known for giving women an equal and respectable role in temple administration.

The Lokamahadevisavram, though small in size, was well endowed. One of the inscriptions in this temple draws out a long and impressive list of jewels donated to the deities by Lokamahadevi. Unlike the Brihadisvara temple that was managed by Rajajara's powerful male officials, Lokamahadevisavarm, under the orders of the queen, was administered by an adhikarachi, a woman officer by name Eruthan Kuncharamalli.

While there was a male officer, the queen made it clear that Kuncharamalli would equally share the responsibilities with him.

...

[rsubbu.mdu]

Originally Posted by Arul Murugan

Time line of Tamil Script

This shows how the Tamil and Devanagri script were almost the same during early periods. Check out the "அ" and "க". They are very similar to their hindi counterparts "अ" and "क " during very early periods.

[ChennaiIndian]

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/chenn...-monuments-992

Chennai, Oct. 8: The Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) has identified over 10 megalithic sites in Chennai and its suburbs for preserving as monuments. As per the ancient monuments and archaeological sites and remains Act, no construction is allowed 100 metres from the monuments.
Delivering her speech at a seminar organised by Chennai Metropolitan Development Authority (CMDA) on Friday, Ms Sathyabhama Badhreenath, superintending archaeologist, ASI, said the Union government recently amended the ancient monuments and archaeological sites and remains Act, prescribing a minimum of 100 metres as prohibited area around Centrally-protected monuments.
ASI has identified some lands in Nandambakkam, Tiruneermalai, Kadaperi, Sembakkam, Nanmangalam, Pallavaram, Chitlapakkam and Tirusulam as megalithic sites.

...

[satishanu]

[satishanu]

[Marathaman]

If you have broadband, lovely HD video of Thiruvannamalai.

[kongutamizhan]

Is Raja Raja Chozan's rule really the Golden period? Series of in-depth articles from Jeyamohan. Irrespective of whether you agree to it or not, you will appreciate the effort and detailed study for sure. Makes a nice read

http://www.jeyamohan.in/?p=8711
http://www.jeyamohan.in/?p=8712


Since he talks extensively about Marxism on both the above articles, for complete understanding of his views one might have to read his views about marxism as well. Link to his view on marxism is given below

http://www.jeyamohan.in/?p=8705

[arun82]

I think TN tourism must have its own luxuary train in line with rajasthan , karnataka and mahrastra tourism . The train can be funded by the TN tourism and will sure be a huge tourist puller. Considering that palance on wheels is booked till 2012. It provides tremendous oppurtunity. POW charges INR 120000 per person so it can provide good revenue to the tourism board. Further it help in uniform tourism development of the state.