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Old February 15th, 2010, 03:50 PM   #21
StigJ
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Yes I agree. I was just trying to say that calling them "German" cities in 2010 is not fair. Since we're on this topic: what cities have always been Polish? I am assuming Warsaw, Lublin, Lodz, Przemysl, Bialystok, Krakow(??). Any other ones?
It was only statet that Germans built e.g. Danzig... and you have no problem in stating that Poles built this city?!?
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Old February 15th, 2010, 05:20 PM   #22
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It was only statet that Germans built e.g. Danzig... and you have no problem in stating that Poles built this city?!?

I am fine with the present day borders. I don't want to see any more inter-ethnic conflict among Europeans. The problem i have, is that people, all to often, remember one aspect of history, and conveniently choose to forget other parts. The one thing i will say in defense, is the fact, that Gdansk/Danzig was a Polish city for a combined total of 600 years(albeit, with German influence), that is a pretty long time. Lviv/Lwow, was a Ukrainian city for 100 maybe 200 years, at the most. The rest of the time, It was Polish(400 years), and German(200years).

Last edited by Damian1; February 15th, 2010 at 08:23 PM.
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Old February 15th, 2010, 09:13 PM   #23
nordisk celt83
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Have to admit I'd never heard of Lviv before, but have always had a curiosity about Ukraine.

Brilliant photos, and the faded grandeur looks amazing. There's a very definite habsburgian appearance about the place...
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Old March 1st, 2010, 10:38 PM   #24
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Yes. Lwow is the Polish spelling. Lvov is the Ukrainian one. Poles built this city.
Pardon me, but Poles did not build this city. Danylo Halytskyi, a Ukrainian King, built the city and named it after his son Lev (or Leo). Poles occupied the city for 400 years and contributed to it's growth, yes this much is certainly true. But this city started out as a Ukrainian city, and therefore rightfully belongs to Ukraine.
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Old March 1st, 2010, 10:54 PM   #25
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Painful to see these pics. Great architecture but if this was in Poland, a lot of it would be renovated already. It seems it did not sustain much damage in the war. Also, I saw that Adam Mickiewicz statue. I'm surprised the Ukrainians kept that up. I always thought they were not so friendly to Poles. Does anyone know why this city was given to Ukraine after WWII?
I'm going to assume that you are of Polish origin, no? So I would think that you would know your Polish history and wouldn't need to ask this question. But now that you have... You might have heard of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact signed in 1939 by Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. Following this pact, Poland was invaded by Nazis from the west, and Soviets from the east. Lviv (Lvov, Lwow, Lemgerg, Leopolis) happened to be part of the territory acquired by the Soviets. So, when the war ended, being that Lviv started out as a Ukrainian city, the Soviets reclaimed it as their land under the Ukrainian Republic of Soviet Union. So now that the country is independent, Lviv remains as the cultural and financial capital of Western Ukraine.

And I have to comment. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Ukrainians are not friendly to Poles. Even through the Soviet era Lviv had a strong Polish tradition. Including Catholic churches and Polish schools, something almost unheard of in Soviet Union. And if Ukraine didn't like Poland, they wouldn't have paid off all those UEFA bosses to co-host the Euros with you!
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 03:58 AM   #26
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Beautiful city - I like how they have a Russian & Serbian street intersection close to the main square....

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Old March 2nd, 2010, 04:32 AM   #27
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Guys stop being bitchy at eachother.
Stop living in the past and accept that Lviv is an Ukranian city with Polish architecture.

Ukraine has other stuff to do than renovating buildings.
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 04:41 AM   #28
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nice city!!!
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 04:46 AM   #29
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Nice photos, thanks for sharing!!!
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 08:40 AM   #30
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Absolutely amazing city! When I went to Ukraine in 2006, I had to choose between going to Lviv and Sebastopol. I went to Sebastopol. Now that I've seen these pictures, I wonder: wrong choice??
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 10:23 AM   #31
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Absolutely amazing city! When I went to Ukraine in 2006, I had to choose between going to Lviv and Sebastopol. I went to Sebastopol. Now that I've seen these pictures, I wonder: wrong choice??
Absolutely. Next time read a travel guide or a history book first...
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Old March 2nd, 2010, 05:06 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by metros11 View Post
Pardon me, but Poles did not build this city. Danylo Halytskyi, a Ukrainian King, built the city and named it after his son Lev (or Leo). Poles occupied the city for 400 years and contributed to it's growth, yes this much is certainly true. But this city started out as a Ukrainian city, and therefore rightfully belongs to Ukraine.

I am not going to dispute, what belongs to who, but just because a city(or anything else for that matter), originally belonged to somebody, that argument, should not necessarily hold the most weight. The blood, sweat, and cultural contributions, should factor, above all else.

That being said, i am not trying to stir up any trouble. All European people have suffered and lost, and i don't think it is fair, to claim that one's own past, is any more tragic then somebody else's. Ukrainians are good people, and culturally similar to Poles, in a lot of ways.
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Old March 3rd, 2010, 05:43 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by metros11 View Post
Pardon me, but Poles did not build this city. Danylo Halytskyi, a Ukrainian King, built the city and named it after his son Lev (or Leo). Poles occupied the city for 400 years and contributed to it's growth, yes this much is certainly true. But this city started out as a Ukrainian city, and therefore rightfully belongs to Ukraine.
Danylo Halytskyi wasn't any ukrainian king becouse tere were never any ukrainian kingdoom. In fact there werent any country called "Ukraine" till XX century on europe's maps.

Saying Poles occupied Lwów/Lviv for 400 years is silly. Just like saying Wrocław (later Breslau) a city with slavic origin, which was part of polish kingdom at the beginig of city history, than seized by german culture and statehood, was under german occupation for 600 years. Since the middle of XIV cent when Red Ruthenia"/Halytsian Ruthenia was seized by polish king Casimir III, whole land was puted under natural process of polonization till the end of XVIII cent (which involved particularly mayor cities - Lwów especially).Just like all kingdooms did...... 200 years of Habsburg regin didn't change much and by the time of World War One polish culture was dominant in Lwów= polish ethnicity. Vast majority of Lwów/Lviv present historic monuments and architecture was created under polish regin, by polish aristocratic families, by Polish kings or polish architects. I just hope Ukrainians will be civilized enough to recognize it and look after this material historic legacy of Lviv which is strongly bonded with polish culture. Too bad Lwów/Lviv isn't part of Poland anymore but it's life. I'm against any revisionism - no need to shed more blod and suffer
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Old March 4th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #34
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Danylo Halytskyi wasn't any ukrainian king becouse tere were never any ukrainian kingdoom. In fact there werent any country called "Ukraine" till XX century on europe's maps.
Danylo was the King of Galicia (Galichina) and Ruthenia (Rus). Galichina was part of Little Rus, a predecessor term commonly associated with Ukraine. So I'm not sure what you're arguing here.


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I just hope Ukrainians will be civilized enough to recognize it and look after this material historic legacy of Lviv which is strongly bonded with polish culture.
The statue of Adam Mickiewicz is probably the most preserved thing in Lviv. And that's just one example, so you have nothing to worry about.
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Old March 6th, 2010, 02:50 AM   #35
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I'm going to assume that you are of Polish origin, no? So I would think that you would know your Polish history and wouldn't need to ask this question. But now that you have... You might have heard of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact signed in 1939 by Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. Following this pact, Poland was invaded by Nazis from the west, and Soviets from the east. Lviv (Lvov, Lwow, Lemgerg, Leopolis) happened to be part of the territory acquired by the Soviets. So, when the war ended, being that Lviv started out as a Ukrainian city, the Soviets reclaimed it as their land under the Ukrainian Republic of Soviet Union. So now that the country is independent, Lviv remains as the cultural and financial capital of Western Ukraine.

And I have to comment. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Ukrainians are not friendly to Poles. Even through the Soviet era Lviv had a strong Polish tradition. Including Catholic churches and Polish schools, something almost unheard of in Soviet Union. And if Ukraine didn't like Poland, they wouldn't have paid off all those UEFA bosses to co-host the Euros with you!
I am of Polish origin but grew up in Canada from a young age.
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Old March 6th, 2010, 02:54 AM   #36
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Danylo Halytskyi wasn't any ukrainian king becouse tere were never any ukrainian kingdoom. In fact there werent any country called "Ukraine" till XX century on europe's maps.

Saying Poles occupied Lwów/Lviv for 400 years is silly. Just like saying Wrocław (later Breslau) a city with slavic origin, which was part of polish kingdom at the beginig of city history, than seized by german culture and statehood, was under german occupation for 600 years. Since the middle of XIV cent when Red Ruthenia"/Halytsian Ruthenia was seized by polish king Casimir III, whole land was puted under natural process of polonization till the end of XVIII cent (which involved particularly mayor cities - Lwów especially).Just like all kingdooms did...... 200 years of Habsburg regin didn't change much and by the time of World War One polish culture was dominant in Lwów= polish ethnicity. Vast majority of Lwów/Lviv present historic monuments and architecture was created under polish regin, by polish aristocratic families, by Polish kings or polish architects. I just hope Ukrainians will be civilized enough to recognize it and look after this material historic legacy of Lviv which is strongly bonded with polish culture. Too bad Lwów/Lviv isn't part of Poland anymore but it's life. I'm against any revisionism - no need to shed more blod and suffer
Well said.
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Old March 6th, 2010, 03:29 AM   #37
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I must say, when I saw the title of this thread (with its Polish name), I thought there would be political bickering and all kinds of other nationalistic re-gurgitation in here. I was very right. So typical.
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Old March 6th, 2010, 03:32 AM   #38
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Yes. Lwow is the Polish spelling. Lvov is the Ukrainian one. Poles built this city.
Good job. Way to instigate.
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Old March 6th, 2010, 05:44 AM   #39
Damian1
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Good job. Way to instigate.

And Germans built most of Wroclaw(the place of my birth), Gdansk, Poznan, and many other cities in western Poland. There are probably more, Polish cultural remnants, in parts of Ukraine/Belarus/Lithuania, then in the previously mentioned cities. Kinda funny, the way things work out

Last edited by Damian1; March 6th, 2010 at 06:00 AM.
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Old March 13th, 2010, 06:44 PM   #40
lizander
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Danylo was the King of Galicia (Galichina) and Ruthenia (Rus). Galichina was part of Little Rus, a predecessor term commonly associated with Ukraine. So I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

By logic reasoning calling Danylo Halytski ukrainian king could be understandable in two potential cases. If he would be a ruler of a state called Ukraine back than or if there would be homogenic ukrainian nation (like it is today) with sense of common history, cultural bonds etc back than. But both cases didn't take place in XIIIcent., You just sad that Little Rus was a predecessor of a country which appeared centuries later. Therefore calling him a ukrainian king is an abuse like saying Mojmir - a head of a Great Moravia state was a Czech king


The other issiue is the fact that Danylo Halytski founded Lviv/Lwów is the least important thing. For example german city of Cologne ( Köln ) Was founded by roman empress Agrippa, Berlin was founded by polabian slavs, and New York was founded by Dutch. Half of the cities in France was founded by romans. It's far more important who developed the city in material and cultural aspects than who formally founded it

Last edited by lizander; March 13th, 2010 at 11:51 PM.
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