daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Photo Forums > Urban Showcase

Urban Showcase Show your selfmade photos



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 21st, 2010, 04:17 AM   #41
Anton_Dnipro
Catman
 
Anton_Dnipro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dnipropetrovsk
Posts: 1,074
Likes (Received): 17

Lviv was founded by the Ukrainian duke (then king) Danilo Halitcky. His son, Lev, gave a permission to the Germans to settle down in Lviv. Then the principality of Halichina and Volyn was invaded by Poland. But Lviv was always a multinational city, having Polish, Ukrainian, Armenian and Jewish districts. So it's not true that it was built only by the Poles. Then it became a part of The Austrian Empire and most of the city actually was built during this epoch. After the 1st World War for a short time Lviv was a capital of the Western Ukrainian Peoples' Republic, and than till 1939 it was a part of the Polish State. This city was never completely Polish, German, Ukrainian or Jewish. It's like Strasbourg in France. Now it's French and nobody gonna change it. Now Lviv is Ukrainian, so it's Ukrainian. It's history. Otherwise, probably Gdansk isn't at all a Polish city. One can always say that if it were German, it would be rich and renovated. So the dispute over Lviv is senseless as well as all the other disputes over European borders. Too much blood was shed because of them.

Last edited by Anton_Dnipro; March 21st, 2010 at 04:26 AM.
Anton_Dnipro no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 22nd, 2010, 04:35 PM   #42
Arcovia
Registered User
 
Arcovia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kharkiv
Posts: 3,396

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizander View Post
Danylo Halytskyi wasn't any ukrainian king becouse tere were never any ukrainian kingdoom. In fact there werent any country called "Ukraine" till XX century on europe's maps.
Denying the Ukrainian identity of the Ukrainians living in the 13-th century is absolutely identical to denying the Polish identity of the Poles living in the same period (and of any other nation). The name may change (as is the case with the Ukrainians) but that can hardly change the ethnicity of the people (otherwise you should deny, for example, the Slav identity of today’s Bulgarians). If you mean the changes that the Ukrainians (Ukrainian language) underwent during the centuries, then you must necessarily deprive most of the European nations of their own history…
Arcovia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2010, 04:53 PM   #43
Arcovia
Registered User
 
Arcovia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kharkiv
Posts: 3,396

Quote:
Originally Posted by rychlik View Post
Yes. Lwow is the Polish spelling. Lvov is the Ukrainian one. Poles built this city.
You say ‘Poles built the city’?

Ok, let’s make a short analysis of the photos presented in the very first post of this thread.


The building is designed and built for the needs of the Ukrainian community by the biggest architectural bureau in the city founded and owned by Ivan Levynskyj (who was Ukrainian), the style is called ‘Hutsul style’ and is a variety of Ukrainian Moderne (Art Nouveau). The church seen partly on the right side of the photo is Uspenska (Assumption) Church, an Orthodox Ukrainian Church erected in the early 1600’s by an Italian architect according to the traditions of the local Ukrainian architecture.


This is the Chapel of the Three Prelates, a Ukrainian Orthodox Chapel constructed by an Italian architect in the 16-th century, the style is a combination of the local Ukrainian architecture with the elements of Italian Renaissance. BTW, it has the best Renaissance portal in the city (not seen in the photo).


The southern part of Rynok Square and Ruska Street (that is ‘Ukrainian’ in modern terms) which was the main Ukrainian street in Lviv. The buildings of the square were designed by various European architects (mainly Italians and Germans/Austrians), e.g., the rusticated building behind the tram was the Consulate of the Republic of Venice constructed by Italians for Italians.


The same part of the square (see the previous comment). The building on the left side of the photo is an18-century palace created by Jan de Witte (according to some sources of Dutch descendent, to some others – of Armenian origin, his true name was presumably Oganes Davidian, born in a Ukrainian city of Kamjanets-Podilskyj and author of many buildings in Lviv and Ukraine). For 50 years it was the residence of the Austrian governor, in the 19-th century it was bought by the Ukrainian cultural organization ‘Prosvita’.


The western part of the square. The church seen at the background is a Ukrainian Greek-Ctaholic Church called Preobrazhenska (of Transformation).

\
A Roman-Catholic chapel constructed presumably by a German architect in the beginning of the 17-th century.

\
Sprecher’s building constructed by a German?Jewish architect Kassler for Jona Sprecher (Jew).


Some buildings of the Austrian period.


Mickiewicz Square, the most precious bulding in the photo is that of the hotel ‘George’ (the white-and-pink one in the centre), erected at the place of the hotel ‘Rusia’. It was designed by Fellner and Helmer, famous Austrian architects, the project was accomplished by the architectural bureau of Ivan Levynskyj (Ukrainian).


The buildings in Mickiewicz Sq. were erected in the Austrian period and are rather typical of the Austrian architecture.


Adam Mickiewicz monument, creation of a Polish sculptor (Antoni Popel).


Some minor buildings in Svoboda Avenue of the Austrian period.


The ‘Black House’, one of the most interesting Renaissance buildings in Lviv constructed by an Italian architect in the 16-th century. The left yellow building is another example of the Italian 16-century Renaissance architecture, it was erected by an Italian architect for Roberto Bandinelli, founder of the local post service.


A German-Renaissance building constructed for the German patrician families of the Scholzes and the Wolfs (the so-called Scholz-Wolf House, 16-th century, now under reconstruction).


One of the four early-19-century statues by Hartman Witwer (Austrian).

Last edited by Arcovia; March 23rd, 2010 at 02:25 AM.
Arcovia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2010, 04:55 PM   #44
Arcovia
Registered User
 
Arcovia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kharkiv
Posts: 3,396

I invite everybody to see my Lviv photos here (there are several hundreds of them and they are newer than those presented earlier in this thread).
Arcovia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2010, 05:43 PM   #45
Flawerwell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tarnobrzeg
Posts: 103
Likes (Received): 0

Rychlik probably meant not "who built", but "who paid for that". But these deliberations are stupid. Most of famous Polish renaissance buildings are built by Italians (Cracow - Bartolomeo Berecci, Zamość - Bertrando Morando). They also projected many of Polish classicistic buildings in Warsaw (Palace in Łazienki - Dominik Merlini), also many old houses in Warsaw and Łódź was paid by Germans and Jews. I can't stand that in every post about Lwów there must be a stupid deliberation Polish/Ukrainian. Maybe I shouldn't make an effort to take the photos and post them, because people instead comment them, they only argue stupidly!
Flawerwell no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2010, 05:44 PM   #46
Karasek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lusatia Superior
Posts: 1,809
Likes (Received): 808

Quote:
Originally Posted by metros11 View Post
The statue of Adam Mickiewicz is probably the most preserved thing in Lviv. And that's just one example, so you have nothing to worry about.
There are probably more preserved Polish monuments in Lviv/Lwow alone than German monuments in the entire recovered territories of Western Poland... Don't worry, you do a great job.
Karasek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2010, 02:29 AM   #47
Arcovia
Registered User
 
Arcovia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kharkiv
Posts: 3,396

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flawerwell View Post
Rychlik probably meant not "who built", but "who paid for that". But these deliberations are stupid. Most of famous Polish renaissance buildings are built by Italians (Cracow - Bartolomeo Berecci, Zamość - Bertrando Morando). They also projected many of Polish classicistic buildings in Warsaw (Palace in Łazienki - Dominik Merlini), also many old houses in Warsaw and Łódź was paid by Germans and Jews. I can't stand that in every post about Lwów there must be a stupid deliberation Polish/Ukrainian. Maybe I shouldn't make an effort to take the photos and post them, because people instead comment them, they only argue stupidly!
My attitude towards Poles is absolutely friendly and it would be even more friendly if there weren’t those… ‘complaints’ (let’s call it so) every time the word ‘Lviv’ appears somewhere in the forum. Actually, the rules are very simple: no complaints – no comments. Just think for a moment that the Ukrainians have at least as many reasons as have the Poles to feel ‘offended’. I guess it would be much better if we always remembered that there are at least TWO parts, Ukrainians and Poles, both having their own feelings to be respected…

As to who paid for the buildings – that’s a question I would say. Lviv has ever been the centre of a great province and its wealth and might came from its vast hinterland (populated mostly by Ukrainians). The Polish nobility were not a kind of foreign sponsors investing their money in the city, it was here and not elsewhere that they usually earned their capital (not to mention the other vast areas of Ukraine – just think what Poland would have been like if it hadn’t had its eastern Ukrainian and Bielorussian Kresy)… And let’s not exaggerate the influence of the Polish patricians, Lviv was a multiethnic city consisting of several ethnic communities, each of them having its own noble class.

As to the Italian architects, I certainly agree with you, no doubt Italians were great masters of architecture and they were welcome in various parts of Europe: they worked in Moscow (Kremlin), St. Petersburg, Kyiv and many other cities. Returning to my comments, please note that Poles were just one of the ethnic groups living in the city that employed Italian architects: Ukrainians, Germans, Greeks, Italians, Jews and other groups also invited them to build their buildings that have made Lviv unique (just take a bit closer look at my comments to the photos).

I hope very much that a bit more understanding between us will help put an end to this stupid war of comments...
Arcovia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2010, 10:56 PM   #48
Flawerwell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tarnobrzeg
Posts: 103
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcovia View Post
As to who paid for the buildings – that’s a question I would say. Lviv has ever been the centre of a great province and its wealth and might came from its vast hinterland (populated mostly by Ukrainians). The Polish nobility were not a kind of foreign sponsors investing their money in the city, it was here and not elsewhere that they usually earned their capital (not to mention the other vast areas of Ukraine – just think what Poland would have been like if it hadn’t had its eastern Ukrainian and Bielorussian Kresy)… And let’s not exaggerate the influence of the Polish patricians, Lviv was a multiethnic city consisting of several ethnic communities, each of them having its own noble class.
It's true. Unfortunately many Poles don't know, or rather they dontt want to know taht Polish nobles weren't fair for Ukrainian peasants (as almost all nobles for all peasants) or even for Lithuanian nobles. And they also don't want to know that Commonwealth was not only a state of "great" Poles and "less great" Lithuanians, but it was a state of also Ruthenians, Ormians, Jews, Tatars and some other ethnic groups. Many of them still live in Poland, but some Poles don't want to even know that in our country there are any minorities. Polish nationalism is often a problem. All nationalism is a problem.
Flawerwell no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2010, 11:35 PM   #49
Whiteeclipse
Registered User
 
Whiteeclipse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Florida, USA/Moscow, RU
Posts: 2,578
Likes (Received): 375

Looks like a nice city, I like it.
__________________
Jonathan and Charlotte - Britain's Got Talent 2012 Live Semi Final
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eEc2WxCUcY

It's China's world, we just live in it.
Whiteeclipse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2010, 10:55 PM   #50
Petr
Iroquois of Europe
 
Petr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Warszawa
Posts: 9,252
Likes (Received): 2564

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flawerwell View Post
Rychlik probably meant not "who built", but "who paid for that". But these deliberations are stupid. Most of famous Polish renaissance buildings are built by Italians (Cracow - Bartolomeo Berecci, Zamość - Bertrando Morando). They also projected many of Polish classicistic buildings in Warsaw (Palace in Łazienki - Dominik Merlini), also many old houses in Warsaw and Łódź was paid by Germans and Jews. I can't stand that in every post about Lwów there must be a stupid deliberation Polish/Ukrainian. Maybe I shouldn't make an effort to take the photos and post them, because people instead comment them, they only argue stupidly!
kpisz czy o drogę pytasz?
Zatytułowałeś wątek polską nazwą miasta i jeszcze się dziwisz...
Nieważne jak sztucznie to dla nas brzmi, ale oficjalna angielska nazwa miasta brzmi obecnie "Lviv", podobnie jak Gdansk, Szczecin i Wroclaw...
__________________
MIĘDZY CZARNYM i CZERWONYM...
A jednak Warszawa!
Małgorzata Baranowska, "Warszawa. Miesiące, lata, wieki"
Petr no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 31st, 2010, 12:36 AM   #51
Flawerwell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tarnobrzeg
Posts: 103
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petr View Post
kpisz czy o drogę pytasz?
Zatytułowałeś wątek polską nazwą miasta i jeszcze się dziwisz...
Nieważne jak sztucznie to dla nas brzmi, ale oficjalna angielska nazwa miasta brzmi obecnie "Lviv", podobnie jak Gdansk, Szczecin i Wroclaw...
Faktycznie, zagalopowałem się.
Flawerwell no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 3rd, 2010, 11:31 PM   #52
Gerasim
Gerasim
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lvov, Ukraine
Posts: 10
Likes (Received): 0

I'm so glad to see people admiring my hometown where I was born and live almost for my whole the lifetime and sure I'll never leave. You're right people, it was real Polish town either from cultural or political or historical viewpoint. Suffice to say that the town was unassailable Polish fortress during the centuries since 1396 till 1704 despite of the fact of its founding by the Russian(Ukrainian) princes in 1256. The Polish was a predominant language there wholly till a great expulsion of the Polish population in 1945-47. After that it was changed into Russian. And Ukrainian had won just about to late70s when the Ukrainian people from village(rural people) became prevalent in the town's population. Więc napiszę jeszcze po Polsku. Chcę tu podać kilku zdięć, ale nie potrafię: kto by powiedział jak to się robie?
Coś mi się udaje wreszcie!






Last edited by Gerasim; April 4th, 2010 at 12:24 AM.
Gerasim no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2010, 03:17 AM   #53
Anton_Dnipro
Catman
 
Anton_Dnipro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dnipropetrovsk
Posts: 1,074
Likes (Received): 17

some information about Gdańsk/Danzig:

Throughout its long history Gdańsk/Danzig faced various periods of rule from different states before 1945 (in brackets the language of the majority of its inhabitants during that time):
997-1308: as part of Poland (Polish)
1308-1454: as part of the territory of the Teutonic Order (German)
1454-1466: Thirteen Years' War (German)
1466-1793: as part of Poland (German)
1793-1805: as part of Prussia (German)
1807-1814: as a free city (German)
1815-1871: as part of Prussia (German)
1871-1918: as part of Imperial Germany (German)
1918-1939: as a free city (German)
1939-1945: as part of Nazi Germany (German)

So probably Danzig is not at all a Polish city?
If we started talking about who funded development of big cities in Poland, probably it were mostly the Jewish end the Germans.
Anton_Dnipro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2010, 03:14 PM   #54
Elvenking
Registered User
 
Elvenking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Gdynia/Gdańsk
Posts: 4,229
Likes (Received): 2565

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton_Dnipro View Post
some information about Gdańsk/Danzig:
1918-1939: as a free city (German)
Don't you think this even looks funny? Free City Of Gdansk was under protectorate of Nations' League in that time, that's why it was called free city. Population was mostly German, but it didn't belong to any country.

And please, make some new topic for this kind of discussions, cause this is photo forum, not historical/political one.
Elvenking no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2010, 04:26 PM   #55
Anton_Dnipro
Catman
 
Anton_Dnipro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dnipropetrovsk
Posts: 1,074
Likes (Received): 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvenking View Post
Don't you think this even looks funny? Free City Of Gdansk was under protectorate of Nations' League in that time, that's why it was called free city. Population was mostly German, but it didn't belong to any country.

And please, make some new topic for this kind of discussions, cause this is photo forum, not historical/political one.
Free city of Gdansk it was the official name. I'm talking about the fact, that Danzig/Gdansk was always German-speaking city. If the Polish people (at least some of them, who write their posts here) think, that Lviv is a Polish city, because Polish language was predominant for a long time there, they must admit, that Gdansk/Danzig is a German city, for the same reason.
The message I wanted to pass is that the discussion about the belonging of Lviv is senseless. As senseless as all other discussions about Strasbourg, Gdansk and other European cities that were ruled by different states during their long history. Now Lviv is Ukrainian, Gdansk is Polish and Strasbourg is French. Probably somebody doesn't like but it's history and most of people admitted it as it is.

Last edited by Anton_Dnipro; April 4th, 2010 at 06:32 PM.
Anton_Dnipro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2010, 06:12 PM   #56
Arcovia
Registered User
 
Arcovia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kharkiv
Posts: 3,396

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerasim View Post
You're right people, it was real Polish town either from cultural or political or historical viewpoint. Suffice to say that the town was unassailable Polish fortress during the centuries since 1396 till 1704 despite of the fact of its founding by the Russian(Ukrainian) princes in 1256. The Polish was a predominant language there wholly till a great expulsion of the Polish population in 1945-47. After that it was changed into Russian.
It’s so sad to see people knowing so little about their home city. The predominant (official as far as I can see from the context) language has changed so many times, I wonder why you put such a strong emphasis on Polish, which was de facto the official language for only two centuries and a half, completely ignoring, for example, German or Latin. As to the spoken language, there are no reliable data until the end of the 19-th century, so no one knows what the real language proportions were. The only thing one can be sure of – Lviv has always been a multilingual city.

And it is even sadder to see this PHOTOthread turn into a ‘battlefield’ between Poles and Ukrainians (and Russians as well as I can see – hallo! ), there are so many, I should say it once more – so many – cities in East Europe (and in Poland itself) being historically part of so many states and so many nations with so many languages spoken in their streets (so I can perfectly understand Anton’s surprise about such a great attention to Lviv – why Lviv and not Gdańsk or, say, Wrocław?), but I hope the WORDS end here – there are special threads for waging discussions.
Arcovia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2010, 06:25 PM   #57
Jedrzej
Registered User
 
Jedrzej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kraków
Posts: 2,609
Likes (Received): 321

Well, the big difference is, and even Anton_Dnipro has wrote it, that Gdańsk was IN Poland in years 997-1308 and 1466-1793, so for quite a long time. Maybe Polish wasn't a predominant language, but it was in Poland and Poles had a big influence in this city. Not to say that Germans had destroyed this city during the war, and the present city was entirely built or rebuilt after the war by poles. So de facto what you can see no is in 90% built by Poles after the war. Lwów was never in Ukraine for a simple reason: there was never such thing as Ukraine and Poles were always predominant in this city. Lwów also wasn't destroyed during the war, so what you can see now was built by Poles and some other nations that built this city.
Jedrzej no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2010, 06:49 PM   #58
Anton_Dnipro
Catman
 
Anton_Dnipro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dnipropetrovsk
Posts: 1,074
Likes (Received): 17

I'm not a fun of the former USSR, but don't forget, that it was the USSR who helped Poland and other Eastern European countries to rebuild its cities. I have huge doubts that Poland was capable of doing it alone after the war. You even didn't have money to build a subway system in your capital, let alone the total rebuilding of the destroyed cities.
About resemblance between Lviv and Gdansk, Lviv, together with Holm, Peremyshl and even Lublin, was a part of principality of Galychyna and Volyn, until the year 1349. Than it was a part of the state of Rech Pospolita, which wasn't only Poland, but also Rus and Lithuania, and then a part of Austrian Empire, which finally made the most for the development of the city. So don't overestimate the Polish influence in Lviv. The Poles were just a part of Lviv population, together with Ukrainians, Germans, Jews and Armenians. I would dare to suppose that the Poles themselves, in most of your cities, were strongly influenced by the Germans.
Anton_Dnipro no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2010, 07:00 PM   #59
Jedrzej
Registered User
 
Jedrzej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kraków
Posts: 2,609
Likes (Received): 321

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton_Dnipro View Post
I'm not a fun of the former USSR, but don't forget, that it was the USSR who helped Poland and other Eastern European countries to rebuild its cities. I have huge doubts that Poland was capable of doing it alone after the war. You even didn't have money to build a subway system in your capital, let alone the total rebuilding of the destroyed cities.
Well, first of all Russians mostly destroyed our cities during the war. And they were doing it in contrary to Germans just for fun. They destroyed for instance Legnica, Elbląg, Krasiczyn castle and hundreds of other cities. As to rebuilding. I don't really know how did they rebuild our cities. Yes, they did build Pałac Kultury, but before that they destroyed around hundred of well preserved town houses in this area. We didn't build metro for a simple reason. Warsaw was so destroyed, that we didn't need to. Firstly we needed to build homes for people. And actually in not Russians, we would have received money from USA (Marshall plan) and we would be able to do it much faster and much better. So please don't tell me that Russians help us to rebuild our cities. They did almost nothing. It's just a Soviet propaganda you are saying which as far as I know still lives in Ukraine.
Jedrzej no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2010, 07:15 PM   #60
delfin_pl
Expert
 
delfin_pl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Polish California
Posts: 5,127
Likes (Received): 56

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedrzej View Post
Well, the big difference is, and even Anton_Dnipro has wrote it, that Gdańsk was IN Poland in years 997-1308 and 1466-1793, so for quite a long time. Maybe Polish wasn't a predominant language, but it was in Poland and Poles had a big influence in this city. Not to say that Germans had destroyed this city during the war, and the present city was entirely built or rebuilt after the war by poles. So de facto what you can see no is in 90% built by Poles after the war. Lwów was never in Ukraine for a simple reason: there was never such thing as Ukraine and Poles were always predominant in this city. Lwów also wasn't destroyed during the war, so what you can see now was built by Poles and some other nations that built this city.
Wow, thats sth new, so far I know soviets destroyed this city in 1945.
delfin_pl no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium