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Old February 17th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #21
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It IS a problem because battery replacement stations are expensive and they need a lot of room. While recharging stations can be fitted everywhere. You will also need a special infrastructure for making sure that every station has enough batteries to replace because people do not always use the same station so some will get a lot of batteries while other stations are losing ones.
Running out of used batteries would br like a gas stations running out of fuel. There will not be any "accumulation" of battery stockpiles as they will be recharged in the site. Only those that reach worn out status would have to be disposed, but that is a tiny, tiny fraction of any daily or weekly turnover.

A station just need to be dimensioned in a way it can recharge a sufficiently large # of batteries according to its demand.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 07:49 PM   #22
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definately the future. strongly agree to produce more
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Old April 22nd, 2011, 10:25 AM   #23
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...,7716029.story

It's a long road before plug-in vehicles reach mainstream

By Cheryl Jensen, Special to Tribune Newspapers

The year 2012 is looking like a huge one for the introduction of electric vehicles. This includes cars that are fully electric, like the Nissan Leaf, and those that are plug-in hybrids, much like the Chevrolet Volt, which operates as a plug-in electric but also has a gasoline engine.

In this year's State of the Union address, President Barack Obama reaffirmed his desire for there to be 1 million advanced-technology vehicles on U.S. roads by 2015.

Anyone could be forgiven for thinking that electric vehicles have gone mainstream. But, in reality, we are not there yet.

"They are plausible because they are already in the market. They are feasible because you can charge them up overnight at your house," said Michael Omotoso, senior manager for global powertrain at J.D. Power and Associates.

If you can sense a "but" coming, you are right.

"We expect commercial success to be very limited for the first 10 years, because we don't have the infrastructure yet," he said.

A J.D. Power study in late October titled "Drive Green 2020: More Hope than Reality?" found that future global demand for hybrid and battery electric vehicles "may be overhyped."

The company estimates that only 20,000 of the 12.5 million vehicles expected to be sold in the U.S. this year will be pure battery-driven electric vehicles. That number has since been reduced to 15,000. (Nissan sold 452 Leafs through the end of March.)

J.D. Power expects 12,000 plug-in hybrid vehicle sales this year. (Through the end of March, Chevrolet sold 1,210 Volts.)

Several other studies and surveys have looked at some of the issues that could hinder widespread acceptance of electric vehicles despite the interest in them.

One out in February — "Plug-in Electric Vehicles: A Practical Plan for Progress" — by a panel working with Indiana University, noted that without another global spike in oil prices, consumer demand might be limited to enthusiastic early technology adopters and relatively affluent city dwellers because of uncertainties about the new technology.

Early adopters who were the first to buy conventional hybrids 10 years ago will be the first to buy electric vehicles and plug-ins, Omotoso said.

He thinks it will be more than 10 years before mainstream buyers start buying electrics and plug-ins.

Adding more models in more segments should help increase sales of electric vehicles, much the way it did with conventional hybrids, Omotoso said.

"The first few years, we only had the Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius, and that's why hybrid sales were very small," he said. Now that there are hybrids in all market segments, sales have increased.

A study undertaken by the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich., estimates sales of electric vehicles, plug-ins and fuel-cell vehicles will nearly double, from 77,000 in 2012 to 140,000 in 2015.

A Consumer Reports survey late last year summed up some of the concerns of those mainstream buyers. In fact, 94 percent of the 1,713 adult vehicle owners surveyed by Consumer Reports National Research Center find electric cars and hybrids lacking in some way.

Of those surveyed, 66 percent cited a high purchase price as the chief disadvantage; 60 percent were worried about inadequate refueling or recharging infrastructure; and 58 percent worried about limited driving range.

When it comes to range anxiety, the all-electric Leaf, which never uses gasoline, can go 100 miles on a single charge. Consumer Reports' April issue, though, found the range severely restricted by electric heaters that gobble up kilowatts during cold weather. During a cold snap, the magazine reported, the Leaf averaged 65 miles on a single charge.

The Volt is more flexible. It gets 25 to 50 miles on a single electric charge before a gasoline-powered generator provides electricity to power the wheels for an additional 300 miles.

When it comes to the infrastructure to recharge vehicles, Omotoso said: "We have 160,000 gas stations across the country, but there are fewer than 1,000 public charging stations."

Still, range anxiety might be slightly overblown. At least that is Nissan's argument.

Nissan said U.S. census data show that 95 percent of Americans drive fewer than 100 miles a day and 75 percent drive fewer than 40 miles daily. Sixty-three percent of those who responded to the Consumer Reports survey said they traveled fewer than 40 miles a day.

When it comes to cost, of the handful of electric vehicles for sale, one is the $100,000 Tesla Roadster; another is the $41,000 Volt, "a small car that is priced like a Cadillac CTS," Omotoso said. It makes the $33,630 Leaf seem highly affordable.

A maximum $7,500 federal tax credit helps bring costs down, and there is talk about turning it into a rebate that consumers get immediately at purchase instead of waiting until tax time. Incentives are scheduled to end after the first 200,000 electric vehicles are sold, but proposals to increase that to 500,000 vehicles are out there.

Keep in mind that changes are taking place in gasoline engine and transmission technology, which are improving fuel economy at a much lower cost than electric vehicles, Omotoso said.

Given all the market uncertainty, how realistic is meeting the goal of 1 million green vehicles by 2015?

J.D. Power's forecast is that we'll get to 700,000 or 750,000 — short of the target but still significant, Omotoso said.

The Indiana University study said it is unlikely, given automakers' current production plans.

But the panel thought it could happen within a few years after that.
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Old April 23rd, 2011, 12:23 PM   #24
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EVs do not solve any of our energy supply problems. It is so obvious that I can't believe they are still being promoted... is that some kind of new religion?
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Old April 23rd, 2011, 02:44 PM   #25
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EVs do not solve any of our energy supply problems. It is so obvious that I can't believe they are still being promoted... is that some kind of new religion?
Of course it doesn't solve the energy supply problems and that's not really the point of EVs either. The point is that regular cars fully depend on oil-based fuels to power them whereas there are many different ways of producing electricity. EVs also improve air quality in cities where most of the people live.
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Old April 23rd, 2011, 03:46 PM   #26
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It doesn't solve but it does improve the situation dramatically. EV is about 3 times more energy efficient than a gasoline-powered car, and in addition it is quieter, does not pollute in the cities, cheaper and easier to maintain, and there is multitude of ways in which the energy for it can be produced for it.

Of course there is a lot of new problems with EV (the main is that the current generation of batteries is crap, and they depend on rare-earth minerals which are, well, rare), but combustion engine is a dead end, and it will drop out of mainstream in our lifetime.
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Old April 23rd, 2011, 06:39 PM   #27
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It doesn't solve but it does improve the situation dramatically. EV is about 3 times more energy efficient than a gasoline-powered car, and in addition it is quieter, does not pollute in the cities, cheaper and easier to maintain, and there is multitude of ways in which the energy for it can be produced for it.

Of course there is a lot of new problems with EV (the main is that the current generation of batteries is crap, and they depend on rare-earth minerals which are, well, rare), but combustion engine is a dead end, and it will drop out of mainstream in our lifetime.
Where did you get the bold & red marked figure from?

Can you point out the other energy resources you are refering to? I'm not aware of any.

Why do you think the current generation of batteries is crap and why do you expect the "next gen" to be better? Our current battery technology is approaching the limits given by physics in term of energy density. Not mentioning the mining capacity and related environmental impacts.
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Old April 23rd, 2011, 08:10 PM   #28
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Where did you get the bold & red marked figure from?
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/urban/...lectric_en.htm
Electric engine can achieve up to 90% efficiency, internal combustion engine usually does not exceed 25%.

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Originally Posted by X236K View Post
Can you point out the other energy resources you are refering to? I'm not aware of any.
You might have misunderstood me, I've just pointed out that while gasoline (or Diesel oil, or LPG) can be efficiently produced only from fossil fuels, there are a lot of options for electricity production - ranging from renewable sources, through fossil fuels (and remember that some of those can't be used for gasoline production, such as brown coal) to the nuclear energy (which is very efficient and rather clean). Depending on region suitable solution can be used (for example countries like Iceland or Norway can power all their vehicles using renewable sources, others can use nuclear energy).

Of course the switch from internal combustion car to EV will require countries to increase electricity production, but since it will be a gradual change it won't pose a great problem.

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Originally Posted by X236K View Post
Why do you think the current generation of batteries is crap and why do you expect the "next gen" to be better? Our current battery technology is approaching the limits given by physics in term of energy density. Not mentioning the mining capacity and related environmental impacts.
Li-Ion and Zinc-something batteries used in today's EVs can't power the vehicle long enough (nor be recharged fast enough) on a long-distance trips, and until this problem will be fixed an EV won't be used in the mainstream - i.e. as the only car in the family.
There are some developments in this field but I don't really know the details (although I really hope for the breaktrough). Can you provide some sources stating that it isn't physically possible to produce batteries with greater energy density?
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Old April 23rd, 2011, 10:34 PM   #29
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I don't know, I just don't see straight battery-electric cars doing any better in the market today than they did over a century ago - and for the very same reasons (range, turnaround time on refueling, driver/passenger comfort, availability of electricity to recharge, etc) - regardless of however much scarce to non-existent public treasure is poured into them in subsidies.



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Old April 24th, 2011, 12:38 AM   #30
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I don't know, I just don't see straight battery-electric cars doing any better in the market today than they did over a century ago - and for the very same reasons (range, turnaround time on refueling, driver/passenger comfort, availability of electricity to recharge, etc) - regardless of however much scarce to non-existent public treasure is poured into them in subsidies.



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I think it will depend a lot on the price of fuel. Given cheap fuel, electric cars will never be attractive, but with fuel getting more and more expensive this may change.
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Old April 24th, 2011, 01:06 AM   #31
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http://www.hostedfile.com/videos/573...ctric-car.html
A nice video about electric cars
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Old April 28th, 2011, 05:00 AM   #32
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,4138419.story

High gas prices can be difference for electric cars

By Julie Wernau

Tribune reporter

1:31 p.m. CDT, April 27, 2011

Not everyone is upset about the high gas prices.

For an emerging electric vehicle market, high gas prices could tip the economic equation in their favor. But whether gas prices will remain high long enough to drive up adoption of the technology, remains to be seen.

An analysis by the Environmental Law and Policy Center -- which says fuel efficiency is the solution to the problem of high gas prices -- finds the potential for $4 a gallon gas prices to alter consumer behavior. And it says that, if gas goes to $5 a gallon, consumers who drive 12,000 miles a year could save on average $2,257 at Commonwealth Edison's off-peak electric rates by switching to a pure electric vehicle.

Drivers in Chicago pay more for gas than they do in any other major metropolis in the continental U.S. The average price for a gallon of gas in Chicago was $4.32 a gallon on Tuesday, according to data from price tracker gasbuddy.com. Some analysts are predicting prices to reach $5 per gallon in Chicago before the end of summer.
Gas prices have soared, driven up by worries about political instability in the Middle East and lost crude oil supply from war-torn Libya.

But whether that will boost electric-car sales is unclear. A recent study by Deloitte found that while 78 percent of consumers said they would consider purchasing an electric if fuel prices reached $5 per gallon, their expectations for electrics exceed what the auto industry is delivering -- for vehicle price, range and charging times.

"Their greenness seems to be challenged by their pocketbooks and what the data is showing us is that -- at least right now -- the pocketbook wins," said Craig Giffi, vice chairman and U.S. automotive practice leader for Deloitte.

Despite widespread interest in electric vehicles brought on by higher gas prices, Giffi predicted that only 4 percent of the population would buy one.

That said, other factors are working in the industry's favor said Deborah Allen Hewitt, a clinical professor of economics and finance at The College of William & Mary Mason School of Business who studies the auto and gasoline industries.

More people are in the market for a new car with the recession easing, she said. At the same time, $4 a gallon seems to be the tipping point for changing consumer behavior, as evidenced by a change in buying habits the last time gas prices hit that benchmark. This spike, however, comes at a time when more electrics are expected.

"The key point is whether they will stay high long enough to have a significant impact," she said.

The policy center analysis, which used modeling from the University of Illinois' Regional Economics Applications Laboratory, found that less oil consumption by Illinois drivers would mean more money flowing through Illinois businesses that would otherwise leave the state's economy.

"The the extent that people aren't spending money at the pump, what economists say is that's more money in your pocket, and you're going to spend that on food and money and entertainment and other goods and services," said Howard Learner, president of the center.

The analysis found that if the overall fuel efficiency of Illinois vehicles were to move from 21.7 miles per gallon to 30 miles per gallon, it would save $6.75 billion for Illinois and create about 72,000 jobs.

Federal Clean Car Standards require corporate average fuel economy of 34.1 miles per gallon by 2016.

"Illinois does not produce oil," said Learner. "That means when gasoline prices go up, it drains money from our state's economy."
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Old April 28th, 2011, 08:05 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
I don't know, I just don't see straight battery-electric cars doing any better in the market today than they did over a century ago - and for the very same reasons (range, turnaround time on refueling, driver/passenger comfort, availability of electricity to recharge, etc) - regardless of however much scarce to non-existent public treasure is poured into them in subsidies.



Mike
The average commuting distance in the US is 29 miles, in which a roundtrip commute is well within range of most current electric cars, and in addition in advances to car batteries themselves that distance is expected to increase. Already there is an electric car that drove 375 miles from Southern Germany to Berlin on electric power alone without recharging the battery.

German electric car sets world record

Keep in mind that most people do not use their cars for inter-city trips or if they do it's very rare that people use their car to travel any more than 35 miles out from home.
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Old May 19th, 2011, 01:36 PM   #34
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http://www.economist.com/node/18437910

Battery technology

Highly charged

A powerful experimental battery that can be recharged completely in minutes

Mar 24th 2011

ENGINEERS have long dreamed of shortening the time it takes to recharge batteries. Currently, that can be hours. For applications like motor vehicles it really needs to be reduced to minutes. Now Paul Braun and his colleagues at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, have succeeded in building prototype batteries which do just that. Their most successful attempt can be recharged almost fully in a mere two minutes...........

The consequence, according to Dr Braun, is a charging rate ten to 100 times higher than that of a normal, commercial battery (in one instance, the researchers created a lithium-ion battery that could be 90% recharged in two minutes), at a probable increase in production cost, once the process is properly industrialised, of 20-30%. And that rate might be improved still further if similar techniques were applied to the anode—a task that Dr Braun is now working on.

It is not quite as simple as that. Somehow, it never is. To take advantage of fast-charging batteries, a car’s electrics will have to be hardened up to cope with the huge amperage involved. If they can be, though, it would allow electric cars to be recharged on the road in the same amount of time that a driver now spends putting petrol in his tank.............
..

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Old June 11th, 2011, 04:36 AM   #35
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http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/f...ries-0606.html

New battery design could give electric vehicles a jolt

Significant advance in battery architecture could be breakthrough for electric vehicles and grid storage.

David L. Chandler, MIT News Office

June 6, 2011

A radically new approach to the design of batteries, developed by researchers at MIT, could provide a lightweight and inexpensive alternative to existing batteries for electric vehicles and the power grid. The technology could even make “refueling” such batteries as quick and easy as pumping gas into a conventional car.

The new battery relies on an innovative architecture called a semi-solid flow cell, in which solid particles are suspended in a carrier liquid and pumped through the system. In this design, the battery’s active components — the positive and negative electrodes, or cathodes and anodes — are composed of particles suspended in a liquid electrolyte. These two different suspensions are pumped through systems separated by a filter, such as a thin porous membrane.

The work was carried out by Mihai Duduta ’10 and graduate student Bryan Ho, under the leadership of professors of materials science W. Craig Carter and Yet-Ming Chiang. It is described in a paper published May 20 in the journal Advanced Energy Materials. The paper was co-authored by visiting research scientist Pimpa Limthongkul ’02, postdoc Vanessa Wood ’10 and graduate student Victor Brunini ’08.

One important characteristic of the new design is that it separates the two functions of the battery — storing energy until it is needed, and discharging that energy when it needs to be used — into separate physical structures. (In conventional batteries, the storage and discharge both take place in the same structure.) Separating these functions means that batteries can be designed more efficiently, Chiang says.

The new design should make it possible to reduce the size and the cost of a complete battery system, including all of its structural support and connectors, to about half the current levels. That dramatic reduction could be the key to making electric vehicles fully competitive with conventional gas- or diesel-powered vehicles, the researchers say.

Another potential advantage is that in vehicle applications, such a system would permit the possibility of simply “refueling” the battery by pumping out the liquid slurry and pumping in a fresh, fully charged replacement, or by swapping out the tanks like tires at a pit stop, while still preserving the option of simply recharging the existing material when time permits.

Flow batteries have existed for some time, but have used liquids with very low energy density (the amount of energy that can be stored in a given volume). Because of this, existing flow batteries take up much more space than fuel cells and require rapid pumping of their fluid, further reducing their efficiency.

The new semi-solid flow batteries pioneered by Chiang and colleagues overcome this limitation, providing a 10-fold improvement in energy density over present liquid flow-batteries, and lower-cost manufacturing than conventional lithium-ion batteries. Because the material has such a high energy density, it does not need to be pumped rapidly to deliver its power. “It kind of oozes,” Chiang says. Because the suspensions look and flow like black goo and could end up used in place of petroleum for transportation, Carter says, “We call it ‘Cambridge crude.’”

The key insight by Chiang’s team was that it would be possible to combine the basic structure of aqueous-flow batteries with the proven chemistry of lithium-ion batteries by reducing the batteries’ solid materials to tiny particles that could be carried in a liquid suspension — similar to the way quicksand can flow like a liquid even though it consists mostly of solid particles. “We’re using two proven technologies, and putting them together,” Carter says.

In addition to potential applications in vehicles, the new battery system could be scaled up to very large sizes at low cost. This would make it particularly well-suited for large-scale electricity storage for utilities, potentially making intermittent, unpredictable sources such as wind and solar energy practical for powering the electric grid.

The team set out to “reinvent the rechargeable battery,” Chiang says. But the device they came up with is potentially a whole family of new battery systems, because it’s a design architecture that “is not linked to any particular chemistry.” Chiang and his colleagues are now exploring different chemical combinations that could be used within the semi-solid flow system. “We’ll figure out what can be practically developed today,” Chiang says, “but as better materials come along, we can adapt them to this architecture.”

Yury Gogotsi, Distinguished University Professor at Drexel University and director of Drexel’s Nanotechnology Institute, says, “The demonstration of a semi-solid lithium-ion battery is a major breakthrough that shows that slurry-type active materials can be used for storing electrical energy.” This advance, he says, “has tremendous importance for the future of energy production and storage.”

Gogotsi cautions that making a practical, commercial version of such a battery will require research to find better cathode and anode materials and electrolytes, but adds, “I don’t see fundamental problems that cannot be addressed — those are primarily engineering issues. Of course, developing working systems that can compete with currently available batteries in terms of cost and performance may take years.”

Chiang, whose earlier insights on lithium-ion battery chemistries led to the 2001 founding of MIT spinoff A123 Systems, says the two technologies are complementary, and address different potential applications. For example, the new semi-solid flow batteries will probably never be suitable for smaller applications such as tools, or where short bursts of very high power are required — areas where A123’s batteries excel.

The new technology is being licensed to a company called 24M Technologies, founded last summer by Chiang and Carter along with entrepreneur Throop Wilder, who is the company’s president. The company has already raised more than $16 million in venture capital and federal research financing.

The development of the technology was partly funded by grants from the U.S. Department of Defense’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and Advanced Research Projects Agency – Energy (ARPA-E). Continuing research on the technology is taking place partly at 24M, where some recent MIT graduates who worked on the project are part of the team; at MIT, where professors Angela Belcher and Paula Hammond are co-investigators; and at Rutgers, with Professor Glenn Amatucci.

The target of the team’s ongoing work, under a three-year ARPA-E grant awarded in September 2010, is to have, by the end of the grant period, “a fully-functioning, reduced-scale prototype system,” Chiang says, ready to be engineered for production as a replacement for existing electric-car batteries.
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Old June 11th, 2011, 05:17 AM   #36
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Battery powered electric cars are merely stop gaps for highly anticipated fuel cell powered electric cars.
Batteries are too bulky and contains toxic/hazardous material for it to be placed in an accident prone environment.

On the other hand there is a possibility that many car manufacturers may go out of business when switching to electric cars since the strong point of car manufacturers was their knowledge and experience in the internal combustion engine.
With electric cars the electric motor comes into center stage with various other companies that have more expertise in developing and manufacturing them.
Heavy drive shafts and central gear box may also become obsolete with multiple motors connecting to each wheel or even a more radical concept of turning the wheel into a motor itself.
Brakes for these machines will change as well with regenerative magnetic brakes instead of the conventional brake pads.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 09:54 PM   #37
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Not sure if I agree on the fuel cell thing...

Most manufacturers and oil companies seem to be pushing for an easier transition - with a hybrid combination of electric (with battery) and then biofuel, mostly promisingly from algae. Whatever can be standardized and can "fit" most easily into existing usage business models will be the technology pushed by corporations.

I just don't see it happening (right now) with fuel cells.
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Old July 8th, 2011, 01:08 AM   #38
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Quote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...,7531556.story

Electric, hybrid cars to sound warning to pedestrians

From Bloomberg

1:56 p.m. CDT, July 7, 2011

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration will propose a rule requiring electric and hybrid vehicles to sound an alert under certain conditions to alert pedestrians to their presence.

The rule will require all such vehicles to have a pedestrian safety sound system, the agency said in a notice published on its website Thursday. The regulation will cover light and low-speed vehicles, motorcycles, buses and heavy-duty trucks.............
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Old July 11th, 2011, 08:21 AM   #39
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ake-over-roads

Will electric cars ever take over our roads?

Their detractors say are they too pricey and tricky to charge. But a select fleet of drivers in Oxford and London has been testing a prototype electric Mini. Were they won over?

Leo Hickman
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 10 July 2011

On 6 July last year, the US Patents and Trademark Office in Virginia received an application from General Motors to trademark the term "range anxiety". With just a few months to go before GM was set to launch its much-anticipated Chevy Volt – a plug-in hybrid, which would go on to earn the title of "most fuel-efficient compact car in the US" – the company's marketing team was on the offensive. It knew that prospective buyers would need to be convinced early on that the Volt would not have a limited range, as has proved the case with standard electric cars. "It's something we call 'range anxiety' – and it's real," explained Joel Ewanick, GM's head of marketing, when quizzed about the trademark application by car gossip website Jalopnik.com. "We're going to position this as a car first and electric second . . . People do not want to be stranded on the way home from work."............

Over the past 18 months, BMW, working with researchers at Oxford Brookes University and partly funded by the government's technology strategy board, has held two separate six-month trials in the Oxford/west London area. Forty hand-selected "pioneers" were invited to drive the Mini E with the intention of reporting back with both their honest opinions and hard data about usage. Similar trials have also been held in Los Angeles, New York, Berlin and Munich, with the same cars soon set to move on to new trials in Paris, Beijing and Tokyo.

The conclusions so far cement the view that range and charging are still the key issues, says BMW's Sarah Heaney, who has overseen the UK trials: "Range is still the big cloud that hangs over electric cars. It is the No1 resistance to change. Charging, and availability of charging points, is the next barrier."...........

The price of an electric car typically falls anywhere within the £15,000-£30,000 price point, which, despite the obvious allure of the fuel savings on offer and the carrot of government grants, is way beyond the reach of most drivers. But that is expected to fall as electric cars become ubiquitous over the coming decade – something many city mayors are keen to encourage because of an electric car's lack of tailpipe emissions...........


One work-around that seemingly nullifies the concerns over range and charging is the brain child of the world's most prominent electric car advocate, Shai Agassi. In his native Israel last year, he launched a startup called Better Place that allows electric-car users to swap their drained battery for a new fully charged one at a network of "switch stations" at the same time as it would take to fill a car with petrol. And because Better Place owns the batteries, the owner of the car need not worry about the deteriorating condition or high price of the battery............
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Old July 12th, 2011, 06:40 AM   #40
Tincap
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Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Of course it doesn't solve the energy supply problems and that's not really the point of EVs either. The point is that regular cars fully depend on oil-based fuels to power them whereas there are many different ways of producing electricity. EVs also improve air quality in cities where most of the people live.
EVs just move the problem elsewhere. You've got to plug the things in and where does that power come from? Hydro power projects cause permanent damage to their surroundings. Solar and wind farms, although capable of being a supplemental source of energy, can never meet the primary energy needs required and also, cause permanent environmental damage to their surroundings. Nuclear power plants can be problematic...to say the least (it's still not over in Japan).And then there is coal. Lets not forget that power plants are the biggest polluters and emitters of CO2 in general, not cars. If we move to EVs, we will have to make greater use of all of the above sources. Remove one source and our needs can not be met.

Although I very much like the idea of hybrids, full on EVs are not the answer.

~BG

Last edited by Tincap; July 12th, 2011 at 06:43 AM. Reason: Spelling
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