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Old April 11th, 2015, 02:20 PM   #241
Arnorian
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The map would be easier to understand if the regional rail lines were split into four lines depending on the city-center terminus, and branching out into the suburbs, each with its own color.
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Old April 11th, 2015, 02:48 PM   #242
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The map would be easier to understand if the regional rail lines were split into four lines depending on the city-center terminus, and branching out into the suburbs, each with its own color.
They used to be color coded...
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Old April 11th, 2015, 02:58 PM   #243
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Are there too many incompatibilities for through running between NJT and Septa, or it is a money/LOS issue.

I've never taken the train from Trenton (only West Trenton, which is single-tracked, right?), but I'd imagine it might not have the capacity either...it would just be nice if the trip was more direct/faster, because I wish it were as simple/quick to get to the city as it is to get to NY.
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Old April 11th, 2015, 03:06 PM   #244
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Actually I just finished designing a pretty simple color-coded map of the SEPTA regional rail system in the style of German S-Bahn network maps:




really nothing spectacular, just FYI I only named stations offering connections to other lines as well as termini. Those are the stations colored white.
I was surprised SEPTA didn't have such a map officially, as it is pretty much mandatory here in Germany with them hanging in every S-Bahn stop as well as inside the trains
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Old April 11th, 2015, 03:24 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
They used to be color coded...
Did every line have its own color?
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Old April 11th, 2015, 06:48 PM   #246
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Did every line have its own color?
Each PAIR of lines. See below:



The problem was that demand between the two endpoints out of Philadelphia wasn't balanced (Cynwyd/Norristown being the most egregious). As a result, you would have trains running from Norristown to Newark, or West Trenton to Airport (that was and is the normal pattern on weekends). This led to much confusion when someone was expecting an orange Elwyn sign on a train coming from West Trenton and they found a yellow Airport sign (I can attest to this from personal experience).

This is because all of the lines radiating north out of Market East are from the old Reading Railroad (yes, the one on the Monopoly board), and the lines west out of Suburban are from the Pennsylvania Railroad.

SEPTA basically welded the two together back in 1984 with the Center City Commuter Connection, closing the old Reading Terminal and replacing it with Market East.
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Old April 11th, 2015, 06:54 PM   #247
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Here's roughly how the system looked before 1984 (note the large amount of routes that have been abandoned). These were simply the traditional rail routes that were inherited from the private companies:



And here's the original plan for how the system was supposed to look when the color-code/R-designations were added:

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Old April 11th, 2015, 08:27 PM   #248
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If the Network above was restored ie the following lines then Philly/SEPA could have a true S-Bahn System
- Reading Line , with Stony Creek Branch (Between Norristown & Lansdale)
-West Chester Line with Oxford Branch
-Allentown Line
-Fox Chase to Newtown
-Bala Cynwyd to Ivy Ridge with Service to Doylestown via Lansdale
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Old April 11th, 2015, 09:47 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixboi08 View Post
Are there too many incompatibilities for through running between NJT and Septa, or it is a money/LOS issue.

I've never taken the train from Trenton (only West Trenton, which is single-tracked, right?), but I'd imagine it might not have the capacity either...it would just be nice if the trip was more direct/faster, because I wish it were as simple/quick to get to the city as it is to get to NY.
The line from West Trenton to Philadelphia was formerly used by the Reading Railroad and the B&O. It carried such trains as the Crusader, the Capitol Limited and the Royal Blue.

In 1931, the Reading electrified the line from Philadelphia to West Trenton as part of a suburban electrification scheme that was supposed to lead to a general electrification of the company's major routes. However, this second phase, which would have seen electrification to Reading, Bethlehem, and Jersey City, was canceled as a result of the Great Depression.

Intercity trains continued beyond West Trenton to Bound Brook, New Jersey. Here, they would merge with the Central Railroad of New Jersey's main line (today the NJ Transit Raritan Valley Line). Prior to 1968, they would follow today's route as far as Roselle Park, where they would continue east through Elizabeth and Bayonne before turning north and terminating at the CNJ Terminal next to the Hudson River at Communipaw, where people could board connecting buses or ferries for New York City (Manhattan and Brooklyn).

The B&O dropped all service east of Baltimore in 1958. In 1968, connecting tracks were opened that diverted trains onto the Lehigh Valley Railroad at Roselle Park. From there, they went north, joining the Pennsylvania Railroad's Northeast Corridor and terminating at Newark. This is essentially the Raritan Valley Line of today.

By about this time, the Reading's service deteriorated to just RDC runs from Philadelphia to Newark. 3-4 car trains were the norm. On some of the runs, one car would have a snack bar that served alcohol as a vestige of comfort.

In 1981, faced with bad track that was slowing trains and costing ridership, coupled with a cut in federal funds, old equipment, and the impending opening of the electric-only Center City tunnel (replacing the elevated Reading Terminal with the underground Market East), SEPTA dropped its portion of the service, leaving only the electrified West Trenton-Philadelphia service. NJ Transit continued to run an RDC shuttle from West Trenton to Newark for two years before giving up in 1983.

The line from West Trenton to Philadelphia is entirely double-track. There is also a long stretch of third track from Neshaminy out to Woodbourne that is being extended on to Yardley. Along this stretch the northern two tracks are electrified and used by SEPTA for passengers, while the southern one is unelectrified and used by CSX for freight. Its worth noting that the line is graded (and the catenary poles spaced) for future upgrading to FOUR tracks all the way from Neshaminy to West Trenton (the only exceptions being the Delaware River Bridge and under the I-95 overpass).

In Reading days (before SEPTA and Conrail), it seems that all three tracks were electrified and the trains mingled with each other. SEPTA "disentagled" the lines (as it did along the Fox Chase/Newtown line (at a loss of capacity there)).

The line north of West Trenton is still not electrified and is currently a mixture of double and single track operation. However, it was formerly all double track with at least some stretches of quad-track running.

New Jersey Transit currently has a proposal to restore service from Newark to West Trenton (which would involve restoring some of the double track). Due to the expanding nature of the New York metropolitan area, this would be a service more focused on the New Jersey communities along the route that are today becoming more developed (they were relatively insignificant when the old service ran).

Thanks to the Waterfront Connection, this service could be extended to Hoboken as the schedules permit. Furthermore, the new dual-power locomotives that NJ Transit has acquired means that service could enter Manhattan for the first time ever (due to track constraints, however, this is unlikely to happen without major upgrades at Penn Station).

During the studies that NJ Transit made for this project, they examined the idea of extending service to Jenkintown (which is the junction for the West Trenton Line). However, this was rejected for various reasons.

*The additional ridership would not have been significant. The study did not examine extending service all the way to Philadelphia, even though NJ Transit runs all the way to Port Jervis in New York and is planning an extension to Scranton in Pennsylvania.

*It would have required an additional set of rolling stock and there was difficulty finding a place to store/turn the train between runs.

*There were issues of track capacity. SEPTA apparently wanted more money to put up with NJ Transit trains on its line. It said that there would be difficulty fitting them into the schedule, and completely barred any talk of extending service beyond Jenkintown (three stops on gets you to Fern Rock, which is both within the Philadelphia city limits and connects to the Philadelphia subway).

*SEPTA uses a different cab-signal system. This was regarded as a minor hassle, but basically the last nail in the coffin after the others.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

New York-Philadelphia service via Trenton was the province of the Pennsylvania Railroad for decades starting with the opening of Penn Station in 1910. It ran Clockers (so-called because they left each end at the top of the hour) on 90-minute timetables fully-loaded. There were about 22 trains a day during the peak years. Trains left from Broad Street Station until it closed, and then migrated to 30th Street (with occasional forays down to Suburban Station).

When Amtrak was formed, it took over the Clockers after some argument over whether they were commuter trains and thus outside of its jurisdiction. Rolling stock was a mixture of locomotive-hauled Amfleet trains and Jersey Arrow II MU consists. Service in this era left from 30th Street lower level.

By 2000, service had stabilized with about six trains a day in each direction, using Amfleets. NJ Transit provided some subsidy for the service between Trenton and NYC. Clockers were listed on the NJ Transit timetables and NJ Transit passes were usable for tickets. Customers appreciated the fact that there were better seats than NJ Transit and lower fares than Amtrak Regional (it also made somewhat more stops than most Regional trains).

Service was finally discontinued after almost 100 years of service in 2005. NJ Transit improved its express service to Trenton in response. NJ Transit timetables cross-list connecting SEPTA trains at Trenton (usually on the same platform). SEPTA does the same, but only in the print timetables.

Will Clocker service be reinstated? Hard to tell. Philadelphia would like it, and NJ Transit seems to be somewhat open. SEPTA doesn't care, and Amtrak just wants to have as much capacity on the NEC as it can get.
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Old April 12th, 2015, 01:17 AM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
. Will Clocker service be reinstated? Hard to tell. Philadelphia would like it, and NJ Transit seems to be somewhat open. SEPTA doesn't care, and Amtrak just wants to have as much capacity on the NEC as it can get.
Thanks for that background information.
I only knew about some of Reading RR's services in passing (namely, Newark and Atlantic City), but most of everything else you mentioned was new to me.

I spoke to some people from Parsons-Brinkerhoff (which is working on the FRA's study for the NEC; "NEC Future"), and was trying to get them to give me some info about what they'd ideally picture for all of the commuter lines in the region (i.e. consolidating service and integrating timetables).

Interestingly, they do mention introducing a new "Metropolitan" service in their materials, which would be in-between Amtrak Regional service and current commuter rail (sounds a lot like the "Clocker" service).

There's also a very compelling (if tragically beyond-reach) vision for LaGuardia floating around which would add two large stations at Sunnyside and in the Bronx, allowing NJT trains to continue on and turn around beyond Penn, freeing up some platform space (until LIRR and Metro North could gobble it up, anyways).

In any event, I'll have to give the transfer at Trenton a go...I've feared it's a tough-slog -time wise -, but maybe it's doable.
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Old April 12th, 2015, 02:14 AM   #251
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When transferring at Trenton, check both SEPTA and NJ Transit timetables. The print versions list some of the connecting trains. Try using that.

When the transfers work, it seems to go pretty well. When they don't, you have about an hour at a station that doesn't have a lot going for it (some fast food, some vending machines, and that's about it). The neighborhood isn't very nice, I've heard, so stay in the Station. Another option, when going Philly to New York, is to go via the River Line and PATCO. It's more scenic, but slower, and you DEFINITELY do not want to be exploring the neighborhoods around the station in Camden.
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Old April 12th, 2015, 02:54 AM   #252
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RiverLine has some nice gem towns like Bordentown , Burlington , Riverton & Palmyra... As for the connection at Trenton , the last time I was down there.. As soon as I got off the SEPTA train , the NJT doors close... They couldn't wait 30secs...so frustrating...it was an Express train aswell..
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Old April 12th, 2015, 05:41 AM   #253
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I'd chalk that up to SEPTA running late and NJ Transit running on time.

That, or there being some sort of union dispute that causes the crews to want people to fail to make the connection. Its happened with SEPTA before.
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Old April 12th, 2015, 09:21 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
When transferring at Trenton, check both SEPTA and NJ Transit timetables. The print versions list some of the connecting trains. Try using that.

When the transfers work, it seems to go pretty well. When they don't, you have about an hour at a station that doesn't have a lot going for it (some fast food, some vending machines, and that's about it). The neighborhood isn't very nice, I've heard, so stay in the Station. Another option, when going Philly to New York, is to go via the River Line and PATCO. It's more scenic, but slower, and you DEFINITELY do not want to be exploring the neighborhoods around the station in Camden.
That part of Camden isn't so bad. There isn't a whole lot going on other than the university, hospital and local government, so there really isn't a reason to explore much. Staying north of MLK and south of the bridge during the day is an interesting walk for architecture, though.
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Old April 12th, 2015, 02:54 PM   #255
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Trenton Transit Center - Trenton,New Jersey
by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr
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Old April 12th, 2015, 08:15 PM   #256
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Wissahickon Train Station to receive a mural

http://www.montgomerynews.com/articl...1983509046.txt
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Old April 12th, 2015, 08:18 PM   #257
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Quote:
How Philly Could Ride a Commuter Train Line Like a Subway

By Jake Blumgart | March 26, 2015


Philly’s regional rail once ran more frequently to neighborhoods outside of Center City. (Photo by Retromoderns)

Building new transit infrastructure is expensive, difficult and time consuming, but America’s cities need more of it. Philadelphia especially has a very limited subway-elevated system. (For those unfamiliar, just two lines run along main north-south and east-west corridors.) Philly does have an extensive regional rail system, with three lines that only run in the city limits through dense neighborhoods otherwise only served by bus. But that rail service is infrequent, and prohibitively expensive for many riders.
Read More at Next City : http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/phil...n-subway-lines
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Old April 18th, 2015, 03:30 PM   #258
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SEPTA Silverliner V


Quote:
Top Speed : Design speed: 110 mph (180 km/h) & Operating speed:100 mph (160 km/h)
Number Built : 120
Electrification : 12.5 kV 25 Hz AC Catenary , 12.5 kV 60 Hz AC Catenary & 25 kV 60 Hz AC Catenary

Silverliner V&#x27;s Approaching Gravers
by jayayess1190, on Flickr


IMG_2762
by bvohra, on Flickr
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Old April 25th, 2015, 07:06 AM   #259
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Quote:
Hatfield officials urge SEPTA to keep Fortuna station

By Dan Sokil
@dansokil on Twitter

Published: Tuesday, April 14, 2015

Hatfield Twp >> Hatfield officials have heard about SEPTA’s plan to build a new rail station on Ninth Street in Lansdale and have a message they want the agency to hear.

They want, and many residents need, SEPTA’s Fortuna Station near Broad Street and Cowpath Road to stay open.

“With the projects going on in Lansdale, I think we have to be assertive and proactive in making sure we keep this station,” said Commissioner Scott Brown.
http://www.montgomerynews.com/articl...8782159778.txt
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Old April 25th, 2015, 07:11 AM   #260
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SEPTA 2016-2027 Capital Plan

Not as much as Id hoped...no restored of Urban Trolleys or Regional Rail to West Chester or Newtown...

http://septa.org/strategic-plan/repo...6-proposal.pdf
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