CROATIA | Railways

[Coccodrillo]

Some time ago someone on SSC, I don't remember if there or in the motorway forum, posted the portal of a railway tunnel asking where the other exist was. I have just discovered that it is a single track spiral tunnel named Brajdica and 1873 m long linking the Zagreb-Rijeka/Fiume railway with Rijeka's port.

I don't know why on the sea side there are two portals, but as there is a road tunnel under construction nearby, the railway tunnel may have been modified to allow road works.

http://maps.google.ch/maps?f=d&sourc...09602&t=k&z=17

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=113 (road tunnel)

[Coccodrillo]

An update thanks to ivan_ri

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...40820&page=127

Originally Posted by ivan_ri

no, they are not parallel... railway tunnel is this purple line, and the road tunnel is pretty much fallowing this green line... so the railway tunnel hasn't been modified,

[IMG]http://i49.************/3007lao.jpg[/IMG]

Originally Posted by Coccodrillo

Thank you. But then why there are two tracks leading to the mountain?

http://maps.google.ch/maps?f=q&sourc...04812&t=k&z=18

The image is not really clear, maybe the one on the top is the tunnel, the bottom one is just a stub track.

[IMG]http://i49.************/jk9lhh.jpg[/IMG]

Originally Posted by ivan_ri

it's probably like that.

[Coccodrillo]

And thank to zezi and Gorgoroth:

Originally Posted by zezi

Angle is not good


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...2&postcount=38

Thanks to Gorgoroth

[nachalnik]

Croatian railways are about to cancel most international trains with the next timetable period.

According to this thread http://www.zeljeznice.net/forum/inde...-vozni-red-hz/ only a few international trains (basically the following trains: night train to Zurich, EC "Croatia" (Zagreb - Vienna), EC "Mimara" (Zagreb - Frankfurt), EC "Sava" (Beograd - Villach)) will remain.

Everything else might be cancelled according to that source, including the night train "Lisinski" (Zagreb - Munich). This would mean no trains crossing the border between Croatia and Hungary, as well as no international trains at all to Bosnia-Hercegovina.

[sekelsenmat]

They just got to be kidding ... the top reason why I haven't been to Croatia yet is that the rail connection to Poland (and inside Croatia as well) is so poor. This will further cement it down my list. Good way to lose tourists.

[Suburbanist]

Originally Posted by sekelsenmat

They just got to be kidding ... the top reason why I haven't been to Croatia yet is that the rail connection to Poland (and inside Croatia as well) is so poor. This will further cement it down my list. Good way to lose tourists.

The amount of tourists not going to Croatia because they don't have night trains to far away is certainly not relevant by the numbers of trains running there. For each tourist from Poland not going there because of "poor rail connections", hundreds of Poles flock to Split due to cheap flights on new low-cost routes

[K_]

Originally Posted by Suburbanist

The amount of tourists not going to Croatia because they don't have night trains to far away is certainly not relevant by the numbers of trains running there. For each tourist from Poland not going there because of "poor rail connections", hundreds of Poles flock to Split due to cheap flights on new low-cost routes

When I wanted to book the Zürich to Zagreb night train last summer it was already booked out 2 months in advance. Those trains are heavily used.
Wel, I see that they are keeping the Zürich - Zagreb train, so my preferred way of getting to croatia will still be available. But I'll book as soon as the booking window opens next time...

[Suburbanist]

A handful of international daily trains carrying sleeper compartments (= lower capacity) is not significant for any national tourism intake. It's a niche, like people arriving in motorbikes from Britain, people crossing the Adriatic on sailing vessels etc

[Verso]

As for Zagreb-Budapest, looks like Hungarians don't want it any more.

[Sunfuns]

I am all for trains, but taking one from Switzerland or Poland to Croatia? Suburbanist is right - that's really a niche option... For me, unless I am taking a train specifically to see some gorgeous train line, anything requiring more than 4-5 h call for flying, driving or some combination of the two.

[rheintram]

Just because YOU guys wouldn't do it, doesn't mean others think the same. I took night trains to Warsaw, Barcelona, Paris, London, etc. A lot of people say "I'd never do that", yet the trains are always full. And if low cost airlines wouldn't be so heavily subsidized with tax breaks and tax money, there would be more night trains again.

[Suburbanist]

I never said there is no absolute demand. There is a niche demand.

VikingCruises offers some rather picturesque Amsterdam-Basel river cruises over the course of 7-11 days. So, yeah, you can travel from Newcastle to Basel with a combination of ferries and boats - that doesn't make it a meaningful option in the broad market context.

All night trains in Western Europe, together, transport less passenger-miles than a smallish airport.

[K_]

Originally Posted by Sunfuns

I am all for trains, but taking one from Switzerland or Poland to Croatia? Suburbanist is right - that's really a niche option... For me, unless I am taking a train specifically to see some gorgeous train line, anything requiring more than 4-5 h call for flying, driving or some combination of the two.

It all depends. On of the things I find attractive at leaving for a holiday by night train is that this means my holiday already starts at Friday night. Beats having to spend a saturday negotiating frustrating airports anytime.

The way the airline industry is moving in about a decade flying will involve:
- Being at the airport at 4AM, for a departure sometime during the day.
- Not being able to have any luggage with you, except if you're willing to pay a hefty surcharge.
- Mandatory strip search before boarding.
- No eating, drinking, talking, sleeping or taking of the 25 points security harness during flight.

I guess long distance trains might become quite popular again. Personally I've already stopped flying altogether.

[gramercy]

i wonder if 20-30 years time this will all seem unreal..

i mean, its europe, countries with millions of people and we can't come up with a single "ok" line and a single "ok" passenger service between them? wtf?

unreal

[Sunfuns]

Originally Posted by K_

It all depends. On of the things I find attractive at leaving for a holiday by night train is that this means my holiday already starts at Friday night. Beats having to spend a saturday negotiating frustrating airports anytime.

The way the airline industry is moving in about a decade flying will involve:
- Being at the airport at 4AM, for a departure sometime during the day.
- Not being able to have any luggage with you, except if you're willing to pay a hefty surcharge.
- Mandatory strip search before boarding.
- No eating, drinking, talking, sleeping or taking of the 25 points security harness during flight.

I guess long distance trains might become quite popular again. Personally I've already stopped flying altogether.

Actually flying is probably my least loved form of transportation (in close competition with long distance buses), but nothing else would do when I need to travel for business, want to visit family in Eastern Europe or take vacations in Asia/North America.

[Suburbanist]

Originally Posted by K_

It all depends. On of the things I find attractive at leaving for a holiday by night train is that this means my holiday already starts at Friday night. Beats having to spend a saturday negotiating frustrating airports anytime.

The way the airline industry is moving in about a decade flying will involve:
- Being at the airport at 4AM, for a departure sometime during the day.
- Not being able to have any luggage with you, except if you're willing to pay a hefty surcharge.
- Mandatory strip search before boarding.
- No eating, drinking, talking, sleeping or taking of the 25 points security harness during flight.

I guess long distance trains might become quite popular again. Personally I've already stopped flying altogether.

It still boils down to time. Airplanes fly at 830-910 km/h (medium and big jets). Any extra time involved in going to/from airports or other inconvenience is dwarfed by airplane speeds.

Moreover, as I said, very long distance train travel is a niche. One that is, incidentally, even smaller than long-distance buses and people driving 2.000km or more in their cars.

[sekelsenmat]

Originally Posted by Sunfuns

I am all for trains, but taking one from Switzerland or Poland to Croatia? Suburbanist is right - that's really a niche option... For me, unless I am taking a train specifically to see some gorgeous train line, anything requiring more than 4-5 h call for flying, driving or some combination of the two.

The essential time of a night train trip is zero. You start for example Friday 22h and arrives 7h saturday in the destination. You slept almost all of the way ... nothing can beat that =D

Last year I went into Romania from Poland by night train (in sleeper compartment of course) and it was excellent. I stoped in Lake Balaton in Hungary in the way in and in Budapest in the way back. It is a great way to travel and in Romania I could visit multiple destinations. I also already went with night trains to Ucraine, Germany, Netherlands and will soon go to the Switzerland because there is a nice Basel-Dresden night train and Dresden is close to Poland. If I can easily reach Amsterdam and Bucarest from Poland on a night train why not Croatia? There is even a special summer night train Poland-Bulgaria! There are also regular direct night trains Varsaw-Kiev, Varsaw-Moscow, Wroclaw-Lvov, Warsaw-Budapest, etc.

I think you are not familiarized with the concept of a night train, where you get a flat nice bed to sleep and clean sheets, a nice blanked and a pillow. It is the best way to travel. You can go very far while sleeping and wake in the destination fresh. You save 2 or more hotel night bills.

For night train routines inside Poland itself the only issue is that you have to buy as soon as they start selling in the summer, or else it books out very fast.

[sekelsenmat]

Originally Posted by Suburbanist

The amount of tourists not going to Croatia because they don't have night trains to far away is certainly not relevant by the numbers of trains running there. For each tourist from Poland not going there because of "poor rail connections", hundreds of Poles flock to Split due to cheap flights on new low-cost routes

Your constant chearleading in rail forums against trains can only be discribed as disgusting. You come here day after day just to annoy rail fans.

I recommend getting psychiatric help. To me you are a narcisist with sado-masochist tendencies which get's his sick pleasure at raining in our parade and enjoying the backslash that innevitably follows.

Or in less words: You are a troll. And should be banned as such.

[Suburbanist]

Originally Posted by sekelsenmat

The essential time of a night train trip is zero. You start for example Friday 22h and arrives 7h saturday in the destination. You slept almost all of the way ... nothing can beat that =D

Except most people need a fixed bed to sleep comfortable. Planes, trains, ships don't match that.

Some people might consider night travel "zero travel time". Most won't, to various degree.

I think you are not familiarized with the concept of a night train, where you get a flat nice bed to sleep and clean sheets, a nice blanked and a pillow. It is the best way to travel. You can go very far while sleeping and wake in the destination fresh. You save 2 or more hotel night bills.

b.s.

The average private sleeper is, at most, as comfortable as a cruise cabin. It can't beat even a cheap room at Étap Hotel in terms of space and comfort, even if it has a tiny shower. Now if some people think it is ok to be without proper showers for 2 nights...

Originally Posted by sekelsenmat

Your constant chearleading in rail forums against trains can only be discribed as disgusting. You come here day after day just to annoy rail fans.

This is a transportation forum with people with various backgrounds and interests. I'm not a "fan" of anything. I just use emotion-less, objective arguments do counteract the "let's all bow in awe of the rails" atmosphere some people try to push here.

I care about trains as transportation infrastructure, not as anything of any emotional significance. Hence, I never get angry on SSC.

There are tons of "rail appreciation", rail spotting and what else forums where the tone is different.

[K_]

Originally Posted by sekelsenmat

... and will soon go to the Switzerland because there is a nice Basel-Dresden night train and Dresden is close to Poland.

There is actually a Warsaw - Basel night train (part of the Moskau - Basel route). It appears that at least the Russian railways still believe in night trains, as they are expanding their network again, and have ordered new sleeper cars.