The Big Space Exploration Thread

[ramanujann]

Originally Posted by Atmosphere

Isn't quantum entanglement a way for instant communication? Tests with quantum entanglement have already shown that's it's possible to instant manipulate a particle which is hundred of kilometers away. It doesn't break the speed-of-light law as there are no travelling particles. If the theory is correct, you should be able to have instant communication even if you're at the other end of the universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

No you can't use quantum entanglement for faster than light (or instant) communication. First of all this is forbidden by Special Theory of Relativity: energy (or information) cannot travel faster than the speed of light. Secondly, entanglement is simply a quantum correlation between particles - nothing is transferred physically and you can't know the state of particles prior to measurement, nor you can manipulate them (after the measurement the entanglement is lost). The result of a measurement of one of the entangled particles is random and the result of measurement of the other particle will be simply complementary to the first one. So at the end, both distant observers will get the same random sequence of bits which cannot represent useful information.

Another problem is that to entangle two particles they have to be close to one another to interact and therefore you would need to send one of the entangled particles classically (not faster than the speed of light) to your distant partner.

[AcesHigh]

Originally Posted by ramanujann

energy (or information) cannot travel faster than the speed of light.

INSIDE space-time. However, worm holes and warp drives are allowed by STR, because its space-time itself which is moving.

[Spartan_X]

Most quick and simple question is, are we still far from achieving warp 1 ? ... quick answer: yes :p

[ramanujann]

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

INSIDE space-time. However, worm holes and warp drives are allowed by STR, because its space-time itself which is moving.

Yes, nothing can't move FTL through space. However the spacetime itself may "move" (expand) FTL, relative to some other location (like in expansion of the universe).

I wouldn't invoke and rely on these hypothetical concepts of physics (warp drive, wormholes, tachyons etc.) because no one knows if these things are possible in reality. Our current theories, including General Relativity, are not complete/ultimate theories and in future when we will have more complete theory of gravity (quantum gravity) and better insight on theory of everything, all these things might be proven wrong (though I hope not). So at the current stage I think that it's meaningless to talk about technological applications of these hypothetical concepts for human purposes.

[AcesHigh]

Originally Posted by Spartan_X

Most quick and simple question is, are we still far from achieving warp 1 ? ... quick answer: yes :p

not according to Dr Sonny White, from NASA´s Johnson Space Center.

[VelesHomais]

We will not get anywhere close the speed of light in 100 years.

20% of the speed of light would be quite remarkable

[bitreaktor]

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

not according to Dr Sonny White, from NASA´s Johnson Space Center.

you over interpret his words

in order to warp drive to work
you would have to be able to interfer with strings directly
we have no evidence for this theory

there is also need to supersymetry to exist and work
on idea if true

and a bran theory to work

also if all this became true we currently have no capabilities of producing and storing antimatter in big quantity
and to do those kinds of research we need to develop facilities on another planets or in space in case something goes wrong
best scenario 200 years of R&D

the good news is if all became true whole universe is in our doors steps, because there is almost no maximum limit of speed with this technology and is much more resonable than crossing worm hole

[AcesHigh]

Originally Posted by bitreaktor

you over interpret his words

in order to warp drive to work
you would have to be able to interfer with strings directly
we have no evidence for this theory

no, it has NOTHING to do with string theory.

there is also need to supersymetry to exist and work
on idea if true

nothing to do with supersymetry.

and a bran theory to work

nothing to do with bran theory

also if all this became true we currently have no capabilities of producing and storing antimatter in big quantity

nothing to do with anti-matter


it depends on General Relativity AND QVF (Quantum Vaccuum Friction).

however, if Quantum Vacuum Friction is not true, you can still generate the space-time distortions (its an Alcubierre Drive but recalculated (wider space time distortions AND variance of the energy that causes the distortions to allow it to be formed with only about 1 metric ton of negative mass/energy instead of a Jupiter mass) with the predicted mass fluctuations from Mach Effect and General Relativity predicted by Dr James Woodward.

We will see. Dr James Woodward research should lead or NOT to working propellantless propulsion in less than 15 years. That would already lead to easy colonization of the Solar System.

Dr Sonny White´s research is much longer term. He is trying to discover if they can generate small space-time distortions. If they can´t do because QVF is not real, than in the future they might achieve something similar with Mach Effect (if it proves to be real too). Then, when you CAN generate space-time distortions by either QVF or Mach Effect mass fluctuations, we would need I suppose some 50 years of research to generate a real effective usable warp effect. Still, that would be before 2100.

These guys are doing real science, based on General Relativity. Of course, that does not means they WILL achieve positive results exactly because thats science. We can only hope.

[bitreaktor]

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

(its an Alcubierre Drive but recalculated (wider space time distortions AND variance of the energy that causes the distortions to allow it to be formed with only about 1 metric ton of negative mass/energy instead of a Jupiter mass) with the predicted mass fluctuations from Mach Effect and General Relativity predicted by Dr James Woodward.

Alcubierre Drive is supose to use evrything i stated above ...

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

however, if Quantum Vacuum Friction is not true, you can still generate the space-time distortions

by doing what?

[AcesHigh]

Originally Posted by bitreaktor

Alcubierre Drive is supose to use evrything i stated above ...

I will ask Paul March, who works with Dr Sonny White

by doing what?

Mass fluctuations, via Mach Effect.

[bitreaktor]

this guy seems to be real to the ground



bring some videos if you can
but please no weirdos talking noonsens

[AcesHigh]

listen to this The Space Show podcast from 4th January, with Dr Sonny White as guest. The subject of the show is warp drives.

http://archive.thespaceshow.com/show...2013-01-04.mp3

[bitreaktor]

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

l

http://archive.thespaceshow.com/show...2013-01-04.mp3

lol he is talking about richard obousy i linked

so study first a then correct other coz you don't know much

[AcesHigh]

Originally Posted by bitreaktor

lol he is talking about richard obousy i linked

so study first a then correct other coz you don't know much

I was not correcting you when I posted the link above.

[ramanujann]

AcesHigh, Matter with negative mass (exotic matter) is not known to exist (and especially in such big amounts required for warp drive). But the main problem is not the existence of exotic matter. The problem is in its manipulation. You need to distribute it in space-like distances and this is possible only by moving FTL. So, in other words, you would need FTL drive to make Warp drive

[AcesHigh]

Originally Posted by ramanujann

AcesHigh, Matter with negative mass (exotic matter) is not known to exist (and especially in such big amounts required for warp drive). But the main problem is not the existence of exotic matter. The problem is in its manipulation. You need to distribute it in space-like distances and this is possible only by moving FTL. So, in other words, you would need FTL drive to make Warp drive

matter with negative mass is a possibility if the mass fluctuations predicted by Mach Effects are real. The amount needed is about one metric ton according to the later Dr Sonny White calculations.

why would you need to distribute negative mass matter in space like distances?

[AcesHigh]

http://www.amazon.com/Making-Starshi...=james+woodwar

Making Starships and Stargates: The Science of Interstellar Transport and Absurdly Benign Wormholes (Springer Praxis Books / Space Exploration)

To create the exotic materials and technologies needed to make stargates and warp drives is the holy grail of advanced propulsion. A less ambitious, but nonetheless revolutionary, goal is finding a way to accelerate a spaceship without having to lug along a gargantuan reservoir of fuel that you blow out a tailpipe. Tethers and solar sails are conventional realizations of the basic idea. There may now be a way to achieve these lofty objectives. “Making Starships and Stargates” will have three parts. The first will deal with information about the theories of relativity needed to understand the predictions of the effects that make possible the “propulsion” techniques, and an explanation of those techniques. The second will deal with experimental investigations into the feasibility of the predicted effects; that is, do the effects exist and can they be applied to propulsion? The third part of the book – the most speculative – will examine the question: what physics is needed if we are to make wormholes and warp drives? Is such physics plausible? And how might we go about actually building such devices? This book pulls all of that material together from various sources, updates and revises it, and presents it in a coherent form so that those interested will be able to find everything of relevance all in one place.

[bitreaktor]

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

I was not correcting you when I posted the link above.

but you did previously
and
this Dr James Woodward research s seems to be total bullshit
oposit to what i stated

[ramanujann]

Originally Posted by AcesHigh

why would you need to distribute negative mass matter in space like distances?

This is quite difficult to understand because it's highly technical and requires a good knowledge of General Relativity (and not only). From what I have understood, the Alcubierre metric is derived in opposite direction, first by specifying the metric and then calculating the associated energy–momentum tensor. This leads to problems because the Alcubierre metric assumes that the exotic matter is distributed over the space-time prior the warp bubble formation. But in practice, at first the exotic matter has to be distributed over space-time at superluminal speed and only then the bubble can be created and moved at this superluminal speed... So, "Alcubierre Drive is required in order to build an Alcubierre Drive"...

For more information read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubie...ubierre_metric

In general relativity, one often first specifies a plausible distribution of matter and energy, and then finds the geometry of the spacetime associated with it; but it is also possible to run the Einstein field equations in the other direction, first specifying a metric and then finding the energy-momentum tensor associated with it, and this is what Alcubierre did in building his metric. This practice means that the solution can violate various energy conditions and require exotic matter. The need for exotic matter leads to questions about whether it is actually possible to find a way to distribute the matter in an initial spacetime which lacks a warp bubble in such a way that the bubble will be created at a later time. Yet another problem is that, according to Serguei Krasnikov,[6] it would be impossible to generate the bubble without being able to force the exotic matter to move at local faster-than-light speeds, which would require the existence of tachyons. Some methods have been suggested which would avoid the problem of tachyonic motion, but would probably generate a naked singularity at the front of the bubble.[7][8]

Coule has argued that schemes such as the one proposed by Alcubierre are infeasible as matter placed en route of the intended path of a craft has to be placed at superluminal speed. Thus, according to Coule, an Alcubierre Drive is required in order to build an Alcubierre Drive. Since none have been proven to exist already then the drive is impossible to construct, even if the metric is physically meaningful. Coule argues that an analogous objection will apply to any proposed method of constructing an Alcubierre Drive.[8]

[ramanujann]

You can think about this in another way. If you emit a photon from the inside of the wrap bubble (which is moving at v>c), it will never reach the outside edge of it. Therefore the center of the warp bubble and its outside front edge are always space-like separated. So, this is why the exotic matter has to be distributed over space-like distances i.e. it has to be distributed at superluminal speed.