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Old March 8th, 2010, 12:30 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messi View Post
Wasn't it always like that? There is actually no 2x2 motorway in Turkey. Maybe some small parts because of geographical reasons but in general it's 2x3.
somehow i think that i saw photos of 2+2. maybe i was wrong. maybe because of Edirne bypass which is more 2+2 than 3+3
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Old March 8th, 2010, 12:32 PM   #82
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Quote:
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is Istanbul - Edirne - BG completely transformed into 3+3?
No, the western terminus of O-3 is 2x2 around Edirne. 2x3 starts at the north side.

I'm not sure if 2x3 is a requirement for a Turkish Motorway. I just think it's a design standard. I don't see why a 2x2 road with full access control can't be an Otoyol. There are a few more countries who mainly use 2x3 as a design standard, the United Kingdom and Pakistan come to mind.

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Old March 8th, 2010, 12:37 PM   #83
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yeah, in UK they mostly don't consider 2+2 as motorways. i don't know about IRL how they breath about that
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Old March 8th, 2010, 05:09 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post


The run is not by A3, but by A30 which pass North of Vesuvio (while A3 is South, between Vesuvio and the coastline) and it is a motorway with 3 lanes for the whole lenght

http://maps.google.it/maps?hl=it&ie=...94885&t=h&z=11
You did not understand me.

Of course that's A30. However there is a small piece of Salerno-Avellino which is 2x2 and than from Salerno there are several KM of A3 3 lanes. I am not sure 100% as the construction is still ongoing

http://maps.google.it/
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Old March 8th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messi View Post
I can't remember having seen 2x2 motorway in Istanbul.
When you come from europe at entrance of İstanbul a little part of the highway is 2x2 lanes.. But it is the only highway that has 2 lanes. As i said before it is nearly 20-30 km maybe..
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Old March 8th, 2010, 06:02 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
You did not understand me.

Of course that's A30. However there is a small piece of Salerno-Avellino which is 2x2 and than from Salerno there are several KM of A3 3 lanes. I am not sure 100% as the construction is still ongoing

http://maps.google.it/
Ah, ok... infact 'my route' stops at the confluence of Salerno-Avellino
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Old March 8th, 2010, 08:49 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
Of course that's A30. However there is a small piece of Salerno-Avellino which is 2x2 and than from Salerno there are several KM of A3 3 lanes. I am not sure 100% as the construction is still ongoing
That small 2x2 piece before Salerno looks like to stay that for some time, although it badly needs widening. A3 from Salerno towards south mostly is or will be very soon 2x3 until interchange with RA for Potenza (almost 50 km). In summer 2009 construction was advancing good.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 12:25 AM   #88
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Quote:
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That small 2x2 piece before Salerno looks like to stay that for some time, although it badly needs widening. A3 from Salerno towards south mostly is or will be very soon 2x3 until interchange with RA for Potenza (almost 50 km). In summer 2009 construction was advancing good.
yeah, it's almost finished that piece. And yes, that piece is there to stay 2X2...pity as I said.

Going back on topic...I wonder if California has long routes 2X3 or above...I never drove there. Someone can confirm? it looks like the kind of place. I seem to remember the entire highway between Frisco and LA being very wide
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Old March 9th, 2010, 03:14 AM   #89
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yeah, in UK they mostly don't consider 2+2 as motorways. i don't know about IRL how they breath about that
There are quite few motorways in 2X2 profile in UK. Mostly in Scotland but not only.
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Old March 9th, 2010, 03:45 AM   #90
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I don't know what the longest 2x3 in Canada is; I'd guess it to be somewhere in the GTA.

The only 2x3 in Nova Scotia is a 13km stretch of the 102 from its junction with the 118 to Enfield. Two lanes going south, three heading north.

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Old March 11th, 2010, 08:59 AM   #91
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BC only has 17km of 3 laners in the whole province!. Its a short stint on the TCH thru Burnaby. Vancouver has, byfar, Canada's worst road network. For a city of 2.3 million its highway network is obscene, worse than even many 3rd world countries and I do mean that quite sincerly.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 04:32 PM   #92
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Vancouver is a fairly progressive city, its lack of freeways comes from strong political decisions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver
Quote:
Though polarized, a political consensus has emerged in Vancouver around a number of issues. Protection of urban parks, a focus on the development of rapid transit as opposed to a freeway system, a harm reduction approach to illegal drug use, and a general concern about community-based development are examples of policies that have come to have broad support across the political spectrum in Vancouver.
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Successive city councils in the 1970s and 1980s prohibited the construction of freeways as part of a long term plan. As a result, the only major freeway within city limits is Highway 1, which passes through the north-eastern corner of the city.
While the number of cars in Vancouver proper has been steadily rising with population growth, the rate of car ownership and the average distance driven by daily commuters have fallen since the early 1990s. Vancouver is the only major Canadian city with these trends.
Despite the fact that the journey time per vehicle has increased by one third and growing traffic mass, there are 7% fewer cars making trips into the downtown core. Residents have been more inclined to live in areas closer to their interests, or use more energy-efficient means of travel, such as mass transit and cycling. This is, in part, the result of a push by city planners for a solution to traffic problems and pro-environment campaigns. Transportation demand management policies have imposed restrictions on drivers making it more difficult and expensive to commute while introducing more benefits for non-drivers.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 04:43 PM   #93
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It always surprises me how those urban planners say that increasing travel times, pollution from stop-and-go traffic due to the lack of freeflowing roads is actually better for the environment.

A small drop in traffic does not make up for the extra fuel burned because of longer driving times (33% as they say) and city driving. Everybody knows you consume more on city roads than freeways, in fact, the emissions of pollutants on 50 km/h roads with traffic lights are twice as high as a freeway at 100 km/h.

You really need a bigger drop in traffic than those 7% to compensate for the extra emissions by the stop-and-go traffic, before you can call such policies environment-friendly.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 04:52 PM   #94
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Old March 11th, 2010, 10:08 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
A part of that motorway south of Beaune is actually 4+3 in rural areas, which is rather rare anywhere in the world.
Dutch A12 Utrecht-Woerden (9 km) is also 4+3 since 1986. Plan for a 2x4 widening is at last in procedure.
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Old March 11th, 2010, 10:37 PM   #96
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By 2017, the Dutch A1 will be 12 lanes in a rural area (near Muiden).
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Old March 12th, 2010, 10:52 AM   #97
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I think anything rural in Netherland would be considered as urban in France anyway
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Old March 12th, 2010, 10:56 AM   #98
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Yes, probably. Rural in the Netherland is usually considered semi-rural in other areas because there are so many cities and towns nearby. If you would reflect American MSA definitions on the Netherlands, then almost the entire country would be one metropolitan area. Even the rural provinces have around 300 inhabitants per km².
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Old March 12th, 2010, 12:58 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yes, probably. Rural in the Netherland is usually considered semi-rural in other areas because there are so many cities and towns nearby. If you would reflect American MSA definitions on the Netherlands, then almost the entire country would be one metropolitan area. Even the rural provinces have around 300 inhabitants per km².
In some way the italian valley of Po in north Italy is quite similar, a little bit less density of course but similar
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Old March 12th, 2010, 05:32 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddard Stark View Post
yeah, it's almost finished that piece. And yes, that piece is there to stay 2X2...pity as I said.

Going back on topic...I wonder if California has long routes 2X3 or above...I never drove there. Someone can confirm? it looks like the kind of place. I seem to remember the entire highway between Frisco and LA being very wide
I-5 from the Mexican border to CA 99 at mile 221 is at least 2x3 and mostly wider, and CA 99 is 2x3 for another 56 miles through and well beyond Bakersfield. Interestingly, the I-5-CA 99 interchange gives priority to CA 99 since it's wider and I suppose more heavily travelled. No debate over whether that's a logical route!
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