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Old July 28th, 2011, 09:19 AM   #201
sekelsenmat
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Originally Posted by G5man View Post
Should we then raise new revenue by tolling roadways? Should that be up to the states or the federal government? I am almost thinking the states since the states maintain the Interstates that run through their boundaries.
The european model is proven to work very well and if applied in the USA it would work like this:

1> Toll *all* Highways, don't use a single cent of gas tax to pay for highway maintenance nor expansion. Tolls should cover both of these needs. This will make even anti-gov people happy, since one option is giving the road as a concession to a private group.

2> Use the money freed up from the gas tax to fund Rail and Public Transport. In the case of the USA the state gas taxes seam more likely to be use for rail then the federal one, since there is a strong anti federal government sentiment.

Quote:
I could see commuters not being too happy about it with many budgets already stretched thin.
But public transport is imensely cheaper then owning a private car, so if people make the change, they will be saving huge amounts of money. By increasing the payment required to use cars, people that change to public transit will actually have to pay a lot less to get transportation to anywhere they want.

Quote:
I am sure if you exchange it for a reduction of state gas tax, people will buy in since those who use it will pay for the benefit where as the rest who do not use it don't feel they subsidize everyone else.
It's not a matter of subsidizing, it's a matter of market equalization. Cars have externalities and energy inneficient, so you tax them higher and allow this extra money to go to safer, cleaner and more efficient rail and city transit, so correcting market distortions. In the end everyone will win. Car users will get less congestion and money savers will be able to use public transport instead of buying a car and in this way save lot's of money.

Car users will also benefit because less people will use cars, so less gasoline will get burned, so the gas price will grow more slowly, compensating for the increased taxation being sent to rail and city transit.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 09:57 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sekelsenmat View Post
The european model is proven to work very well and if applied in the USA it would work like this:

1> Toll *all* Highways, don't use a single cent of gas tax to pay for highway maintenance nor expansion. Tolls should cover both of these needs. This will make even anti-gov people happy, since one option is giving the road as a concession to a private group.
There is no "European model" as financing of transport (road, rail, air) varies a lot. Moreover, there isn't a single country that fits your "European model".

Germany and United Kingdom don't have tolls for private cars at all (but for a very short selection of sectors and special structures like the Chunnel).

Spain and France have significant share of highways that are not tolled.

All European countries finance expansion of transportation infrastructure with funds not related to tolls, to variable extent.

The whole "gas tax" needs to be broken down in a the general VATs of each country and fuel-specific taxes.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 01:07 PM   #203
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There is no "European model" as financing of transport (road, rail, air) varies a lot. Moreover, there isn't a single country that fits your "European model".

Germany and United Kingdom don't have tolls for private cars at all (but for a very short selection of sectors and special structures like the Chunnel).

Spain and France have significant share of highways that are not tolled.

All European countries finance expansion of transportation infrastructure with funds not related to tolls, to variable extent.

The whole "gas tax" needs to be broken down in a the general VATs of each country and fuel-specific taxes.
Can we stop talking about this road crap in the Railway thread it gets annoying after a while?
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Old July 28th, 2011, 08:54 PM   #204
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Can we stop talking about this road crap in the Railway thread it gets annoying after a while?
I was replying to seskelemat.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 08:57 PM   #205
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TBMs

I think leaving TBMs underground is the rule rather than exception for long tunnels excavated in two fronts. The costs of building an extrication bore for the solely purpose of recovering a TBM head is usually not worth the recoup value.
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Old July 28th, 2011, 09:06 PM   #206
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I think leaving TBMs underground is the rule rather than exception for long tunnels excavated in two fronts. The costs of building an extrication bore for the solely purpose of recovering a TBM head is usually not worth the recoup value.
In fact the article does mention that "Burial is more common for cutters in international tunneling projects. But the approach has rarely been tried in New York, whose crowded underground does not often have room.", they just say it's uncommon in NYC.

Very poetic and nice article, BTW!
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Old July 29th, 2011, 03:50 PM   #207
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81 New Stations , 355 miles of Resorted Commuter Rail and 92 miles of Light Diesel Rail
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Last edited by Nexis; August 1st, 2011 at 07:39 AM.
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Old July 31st, 2011, 09:34 PM   #208
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A little random, I think, but I had a question about PA's Keystone corridor. I know that they just finished a number of upgrades on the line, and that all of it is now cleared for 110mph service save for 3 grade crossings, all of which are situated within the span of 2 towns and are planned for regrading. But I can't find whether that's 110mph max or 110mph average, the latter of which seems more likely, particularly as it seems to be the plan for most "refurbished" lines (e.g. Chicago-St.Louis, D.C.-Raleigh). Anyone know one way or the other?
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Old July 31st, 2011, 09:50 PM   #209
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110mph average is highly unlikely.

Has that area got a FRA waiver?
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Old July 31st, 2011, 09:59 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
110mph average is highly unlikely.
I think so too.

Quote:
Has that area got a FRA waiver?
Which? The Keystone Corridor, Chicago Hub, or south of D.C.?
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Old August 1st, 2011, 12:25 AM   #211
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It will be 90mph Average with 110 or 125mph Max.....
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Old August 1st, 2011, 12:28 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
A little random, I think, but I had a question about PA's Keystone corridor. I know that they just finished a number of upgrades on the line, and that all of it is now cleared for 110mph service save for 3 grade crossings, all of which are situated within the span of 2 towns and are planned for regrading. But I can't find whether that's 110mph max or 110mph average, the latter of which seems more likely, particularly as it seems to be the plan for most "refurbished" lines (e.g. Chicago-St.Louis, D.C.-Raleigh). Anyone know one way or the other?
The Crossings will be removed sometime later this decade , its not one of refurbished lines...
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Old August 1st, 2011, 05:16 AM   #213
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Quote:
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110mph average is highly unlikely.
And you'd be right. It's just 110-rated, meaning 110's the fastest it's considered safe to go.
Quote:
Has that area got a FRA waiver?
Nope.

BTW, equipment will still be toaster push-pulls AFAIK.

Last edited by hammersklavier; August 1st, 2011 at 07:42 PM.
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Old August 1st, 2011, 05:48 AM   #214
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In 2005, Acela's average speed over the NEC's entire distance was 71 mph; the graphic below breaks things down more. I'm not sure if Acela is faster today or not:



Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/24/national/24acela.html

By the way, the article from where this graphic came from is very interesting.

Last edited by nouveau.ukiyo; August 1st, 2011 at 05:54 AM.
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Old August 1st, 2011, 05:55 AM   #215
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IMO, ALL Acela track needs to be brought up to Euro/Asian HSR Standards. Not this half-a$$ed attempt at HSR. I don't know who's idea was it to put fancy looking trains on a 100 Year old corridor and call it HSR. You don't see other countries doing that, and I'm sure that if they do, they atleast bring it up to standard BEFORE the line opens.
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Old August 1st, 2011, 06:21 AM   #216
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Long Island Railroad @ Hunterspoint ave and Jamaica





image hosted on flickr

DSC05864 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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DSC05865 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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DSC05868 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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DSC05869 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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DSC05870 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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DSC05872 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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DSC05874 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

DSC05875 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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DSC05876 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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DSC05877 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

~Corey
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Old August 1st, 2011, 06:23 AM   #217
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Quote:
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IMO, ALL Acela track needs to be brought up to Euro/Asian HSR Standards. Not this half-a$$ed attempt at HSR. I don't know who's idea was it to put fancy looking trains on a 100 Year old corridor and call it HSR. You don't see other countries doing that, and I'm sure that if they do, they atleast bring it up to standard BEFORE the line opens.
The Idea was to have an average of 120mph and the Acela was supposed to be an Faster Intercity service not HSR. But the Politicians like to play with words...
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Old August 1st, 2011, 07:03 AM   #218
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As much as I'd like to see 186mph/220mph service between major metros, I just don't think it's feasible in the current political climate. I'm more than happy to see 110mph lines (assuming that's the average, not max, speed) if it diverts auto usage, and I think that frankly that'd be about the most we could expect within the next 10 years or so on anything that isn't new PDL. Not to mention that the idea behind these faux-HSR lines is essentially proof-of-concept for possible developments later on; we'd better hope that these lines are a roaring success if we want anything better.
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Old August 1st, 2011, 07:31 AM   #219
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I don't see anything big happening in the US till the 2020s , then we will see alot happen. But for this decade we will see small things like Bridge Repaintings , wire replacement , Rolling Stock upgrades , New or Restored stations , small Railway projects (under 500 Million$) , and Misc improvements to signals and tracks..... Other then that i don't see much and the Rail Fanning community in the Northeast is sick of HSR , we just want Regional and Intercity Rail for the time being at least the next 20 years...
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Old August 1st, 2011, 07:31 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
As much as I'd like to see 186mph/220mph service between major metros, I just don't think it's feasible in the current political climate. I'm more than happy to see 110mph lines (assuming that's the average, not max, speed) if it diverts auto usage, and I think that frankly that'd be about the most we could expect within the next 10 years or so on anything that isn't new PDL. Not to mention that the idea behind these faux-HSR lines is essentially proof-of-concept for possible developments later on; we'd better hope that these lines are a roaring success if we want anything better.
California is the only PDL you should expect at this point in time. Texas, Cali, the Midwest, and the Northeast need PDLs. 110 is a good step in the right direction for most corridors, but I want more ambitious plans. We definitely need a strong mainline network. Once the corridor demonstrates ridership, then I think there will be a great willingness to fund improvements and speed increases.
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