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Old February 22nd, 2013, 06:08 PM   #661
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This is an impressive project. However, ever since I learned about this undertaking I've been asking why they build a new station for the LIRR. Why not run the LIRR to the lower level of Grand Central?
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 09:11 PM   #662
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This is an impressive project. However, ever since I learned about this undertaking I've been asking why they build a new station for the LIRR. Why not run the LIRR to the lower level of Grand Central?
There's no capacity for additional trains down there. I also think a connection from the 63rd Street tunnel to the Park Avenue tunnel would have a severe impact on the ability to maintain the current level of operations via the Park Avenue tunnel (both during and after construction of the connection).
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 03:33 AM   #663
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East Side Access at Sunnyside Portal

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Old February 23rd, 2013, 03:36 AM   #664
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I've never heard of any neighborhood named South Rochelle. How is the grade separation an impediment?
Its actually called Woodside by most people , although some also call it South Rochelle... The Grade Separation will be factor in the station as all the approaches will need to be redone....and then questions whether to 3 or 4 track things....its a mess....
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 05:33 AM   #665
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 02:53 PM   #666
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There's no capacity for additional trains down there. I also think a connection from the 63rd Street tunnel to the Park Avenue tunnel would have a severe impact on the ability to maintain the current level of operations via the Park Avenue tunnel (both during and after construction of the connection).
The capacity should not be an issue. Grand Central has 67 tracks. With about 300 departures a day this station cannot be operating at anything near capacity. According to Wikipedia 12 tracks in the lower level are unused. So I do still wonder why using this space was not considered.

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Old February 23rd, 2013, 07:26 PM   #667
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The capacity should not be an issue. Grand Central has 67 tracks. With about 300 departures a day this station cannot be operating at anything near capacity. According to Wikipedia 12 tracks in the lower level are unused. So I do still wonder why using this space was not considered.
To put that into perspective, The Hague Central, the biggest terminus in The Netherlands, handles 500 departures a day with only 10 tracks, one of them is not even used. So Grand Central Terminal should be able to handle at least 3000 trains a day.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 07:44 PM   #668
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To put that into perspective, The Hague Central, the biggest terminus in The Netherlands, handles 500 departures a day with only 10 tracks, one of them is not even used. So Grand Central Terminal should be able to handle at least 3000 trains a day.
Its more about affecting the 4 tracks that feed into GCT.....and the LIRR has this ego thing about itself....always has....you give it what it what it wants...
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 07:46 PM   #669
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To put that into perspective, The Hague Central, the biggest terminus in The Netherlands, handles 500 departures a day with only 10 tracks, one of them is not even used. So Grand Central Terminal should be able to handle at least 3000 trains a day.
It's not just the number of platforms. Capacity of the station also depends from how many tracks lead away from a station until the first major junction. Stockholm is a very good example of this. It has about 16 platforms in use, but to the south of the city center all traffic converges to mere two tracks severely limiting the overall capacity of the station (Citibanan project will alleviate this problem in the future).
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 10:40 PM   #670
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The Tunnels of NYC's East Side Access Project
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Old February 24th, 2013, 09:20 PM   #671
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Hague Centraal is not a good comparison to GCT. Hague has what looks like 10 tracks heading out that split into three directions right away, while GCT has four tracks heading out that split into three directions far away.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 10:11 PM   #672
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When can I take the train to Rockford, IL ?

This rustbelt city has 150.000 inhabitants and no passenger service !

Is there going to be a metra service from Chicago ? How long would a trip from Chicago take ?

In Sweden all cities with pop. over 35.000 are reached by passenger trains.
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Old February 24th, 2013, 11:03 PM   #673
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When can I take the train to Rockford, IL ?

This rustbelt city has 150.000 inhabitants and no passenger service !

Is there going to be a metra service from Chicago ? How long would a trip from Chicago take ?

In Sweden all cities with pop. over 35.000 are reached by passenger trains.
Rockford is kind of a random insignificant thing to troll about. Columbus, Ohio has about 800,000 people and no train service.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 09:00 PM   #674
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Hague Centraal is not a good comparison to GCT. Hague has what looks like 10 tracks heading out that split into three directions right away, while GCT has four tracks heading out that split into three directions far away.
Which makes the proportions of GCT pretty stupid. At least 20 tracks would be needed for the 67 platforms to make sense. 300 trains per day through 2 tracks means a train about every 6-7 mins. That's pretty normal, for a city with a population of half a million...
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Old February 27th, 2013, 06:40 PM   #675
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Rockford is kind of a random insignificant thing to troll about. Columbus, Ohio has about 800,000 people and no train service.
Or we could talk about Phoenix, AZ, with 4.2 million people having zero train service whatsover. There's a station in another town dozens of miles away, but no rail link between that and the city.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 08:36 PM   #676
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Rockford is kind of a random insignificant thing to troll about. Columbus, Ohio has about 800,000 people and no train service.
Considering Rockford's proximity to Chicago(about 85 miles), and the desire to link the two towns together by rail for quite some time, I don't think it's insignificant or trollish.

But to answer NordikNerd's question, the state of Illinois has appropriated the funds necessary to revive the Blackhawk route, between Chicago and Dubuque, IA. Rockford will be one of 7 planned intermediate stops. Service, which will be operated by Amtrak, is scheduled to commence in late 2014 or early 2015.

The state is investing enough money to get the tracks back to 79mph, with the trip scheduled to take the same as the old Blackhawk, just over 4 hours. The Blackhawk is also scheduled to receive a share of the 88 new bi-level rail cars and 125mph-capable diesel locomotives, once those orders are filled, now slated between 2015 and 2018. Further track improvements needed to increase speed on the route would be considered if the ridership numbers warrant it.

It is a shame that Amtrak does not serve Columbus, OH, but Ohioans need to look to themselves and their leadership for that failure. John Kasich has not been merely unenthusiastic about expanding rail service in Ohio, he has been openly hostile to the idea. He turned down $400 million in federal money that would have helped establish the "3C" route, that would have served as the backbone to further rail improvements in the state.

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Or we could talk about Phoenix, AZ, with 4.2 million people having zero train service whatsover. There's a station in another town dozens of miles away, but no rail link between that and the city.
Here is another example of the desire to improve rail transportation, but the utter lack of political will to make it happen. Phoenix lost its Amtrak stop because the track between Palo Verde and Wellton, about 90 miles long, had degraded to the point that by the mid-90's, the Southern Pacific chose to take all trains off it, instead using the alignment currently utilized.

The Union Pacific, which acquired the Southern Pacific, has expressed no interest in making the upgrades necessary to allow trains to run on that line again. Arizona transportation officials are aware of the need to reestablish a rail link to Phoenix, and have proposed plans to upgrade the line themselves, but the state, Maricopa County, and the city of Phoenix have been reluctant to provide funding, even when that meant the possibility of receiving federal matching funds.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 11:27 PM   #677
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Well, Arizona is hardly the place to look in this country if you want to see something (anything) done right.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 03:24 PM   #678
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Well, Arizona is hardly the place to look in this country if you want to see something (anything) done right.
They can sometimes do good things in Phoenix, and Tuscon tries...
But, yeah...
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Old March 5th, 2013, 02:32 AM   #679
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Guys, could we keep things in perspective? Rail development in Europe and China is awesome, but those are some very densily populated areas.
It's not reallt that astounding that Tucson, Arizona hasn't got the best rail services; it's in the middle of the desert.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 03:06 AM   #680
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Guys, could we keep things in perspective? Rail development in Europe and China is awesome, but those are some very densily populated areas.
It's not reallt that astounding that Tucson, Arizona hasn't got the best rail services; it's in the middle of the desert.
No one's arguing that....
But, you would expect the major urban areas to be connected. And really, the point here is the neglect of an existing line and potential of restarting that service.

Density isn't the end-all-be-all for passenger rail service.
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