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Old December 19th, 2017, 12:02 AM   #1201
Woonsocket54
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cross-post from Seattle forum re: accident between Olympia and Tacoma, WA

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJSea View Post
There are reports it struck something on the tracks.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 12:40 AM   #1202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
It's very likely that the bend where the train derailed has a T30/P30 (mph) limit. Last known speed of the train was 81 mph.
That was the via GPS, and could have been the speed a minute or two prior to the curve.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 03:50 AM   #1203
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Originally Posted by wgerman View Post
That was the via GPS, and could have been the speed a minute or two prior to the curve.
It does not looked like a 30 mph derailment. Also ...

The speed limit at the curve where the train crosses Interstate 5 is 30 miles per hour, said state transportation department spokeswoman Barbara LaBoe, while the speed limit on most of the track is 79 mph. She said speed-limit signs are posted two miles before the lowered speed zone and then just before the zone....
Daniel Konzelman, who was driving on I-5 south parallel to the train, said he was traveling at 60 mph or more and watched the train pass his vehicle about a half-mile before the crash.


- https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...mit-of-30-mph/
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Old December 19th, 2017, 04:31 AM   #1204
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Amtrak Train on New Route Hurtles Off Bridge in Fatal Crash
source : Link


Quote:
Cars from an Amtrak train that derailed lie spilled onto Interstate 5, Monday, Dec. 18, 2017, in DuPont, Wash. An Amtrak train making the first-ever run along a faster new route hurtled off an overpass south of Seattle on Monday and spilled some of its cars onto the highway below, killing at least three people, injuring more than 100 and crushing two vehicles, authorities said. Bettina Hansen/The Seattle Times via AP

Quote:
Lights illuminate cars from an Amtrak train that derailed above Interstate 5, Monday, Dec. 18, 2017, in DuPont, Wash. Seventy-seven passengers and seven crew members were aboard when the train derailed and pulled 13 cars off the tracks. Authorities said there were three confirmed deaths and more than a dozen people with critical or serious injuries. AP Photo/Elaine Thompson

Quote:
Emergency crews respond after an Amtrak train derailed Monday, Dec. 18, 2017, in DuPont, Wash. The Amtrak train making the first-ever run along a faster new route hurtled off the overpass Monday near Tacoma and spilled some of its cars onto the highway below, killing several people, authorities said. Joshua Bessex/The News Tribune via AP

Quote:
Police officials walk over tracks near a curve at the back of where an Amtrak train derailed above Interstate 5, Monday, Dec. 18, 2017, in DuPont, Wash. A website that maps location and speed using data from Amtrak's train tracker app shows the train was going 81.1 mph (129 kph) about one-quarter mile from the point where it derailed, where the speed limit is significantly lower. AP Photo/Elaine Thompson

Quote:
Cars from an Amtrak train lay spilled onto Interstate 5 below alongside smashed vehicles as some train cars remain on the tracks above Monday, Dec. 18, 2017, in DuPont, Wash. The Amtrak train making the first-ever run along a faster new route hurtled off the overpass Monday near Tacoma and spilled some of its cars onto the highway below, killing some people, authorities said. Seventy-eight passengers and five crew members were aboard when the train moving at more than 80 mph derailed about 40 miles south of Seattle before 8 a.m., Amtrak said. AP Photo/Elaine Thompson

Quote:
Cars from an Amtrak train that derailed above lie spilled onto Interstate 5, Monday, Dec. 18, 2017, in DuPont, Wash. The Amtrak train making the first-ever run along a faster new route hurtled off the overpass Monday near Tacoma and spilled some of its cars onto the highway below, killing several people, authorities said. Bettina Hansen/The Seattle Times via AP
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Old December 19th, 2017, 07:37 AM   #1205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoulderGrad View Post
New operator forgot/didn't acknowledge control panel warnings to slow down for the curve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Unbelievable if that is indeed the reason. Don't they do several weeks of driver training on any new routes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-NL View Post
If that's the reason PTC would have prevented it from happening. Originally there was a deadline that all rail lines carrying passengers or dangerous goods had to have PTC installed before december 15, 2015. We're at the end of 2017 now and a lot of railroads aren't even close to compliance (Like Metra that estimates 2019).

Do US train drivers have to acquire proper 'route knowledge' before they can drive a route, like in the UK and the Netherlands, or can they basically be sent anywhere when they are licensed to drive a train?
Quote:
Originally Posted by [atomic] View Post
That looks like the derailment a few years ago in in Santiago de Compostella, Spain. You have a straight track (that was just renovated in 2016) and right after that a tight curve. Location, disable 3D
Also Positive Train Control was not activated according to Amtrak President and Co-CEO Richard Anderson. (Source)

The point and call protocol could have saved thousands of lives if it was more wide spread ...

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Old December 19th, 2017, 12:37 PM   #1206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embassyofaudrey View Post
Amtrak Train on New Route Hurtles Off Bridge in Fatal Crash
source : Link



This curve in the railway doesn't seem to be anywhere close to be able to carry the (reported) actual speed of the train (129kph). The location of the locomotive also confirms this for a part. Luckily the bridge is strong though, otherwise, the damage on the bridge would have been big as well (sure thing that in Germany such an accident would have been even more fatal and close the railway for a decade or so).
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Old December 19th, 2017, 03:07 PM   #1207
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We can all only hope that this doesn't result in the (inevitable) retraction of even more funding from rail, and instead points out the need for more.

Let's all bear in mind, too, that death rates for rail are far, far lower per passenger mile than for cars. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, here, but...just trying to spiritually fend off the dangerous nonsense bound to ensue in our universe, here.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 05:52 PM   #1208
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But this train, I counted about 10 coaches, 2 locomotives, just carried 70 passengers, which are ridiculously low. Even a single tour bus usually carries more passengers than that.

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Originally Posted by aquaticko View Post
We can all only hope that this doesn't result in the (inevitable) retraction of even more funding from rail, and instead points out the need for more.

Let's all bear in mind, too, that death rates for rail are far, far lower per passenger mile than for cars. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, here, but...just trying to spiritually fend off the dangerous nonsense bound to ensue in our universe, here.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 06:59 PM   #1209
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It was the inaugural trip.

The 501 train, in which 78 passengers traveled, including those responsible for the Amtrak operator and railroad enthusiasts testing the new service, and five crew members, was on the route of the inaugural route of the improved line, in which they had invested eight hundred million dollars, some 678 million euros, in the last ten years to increase their commercial speed.
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Old December 19th, 2017, 08:58 PM   #1210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Huo View Post
But this train, I counted about 10 coaches, 2 locomotives, just carried 70 passengers, which are ridiculously low. Even a single tour bus usually carries more passengers than that.
That's actually pretty crowded by Amtrak standards.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 03:21 AM   #1211
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Let me lay down some facts:

This train (501) was the inaugural trip on the new bypass (not the first trip in the corridor, not the first with this trainset, not even the first with the new engine). It was less than full because the train was scheduled to leave at 6 am, on a new trip that hasn't been well advertised.

The curve has a speed limit of 30 mph, with a warning signal two miles ahead. The NTSB's preliminary findings show that the train was indeed traveling at 80 mph as it crashed.

The improvement project cost $181 million. The $800 million figure comes from the entire corridor's improvement (stretching from Vancouver to Eugene, or over 400 miles). Amtrak Cascades is funded primarily by the state governments of Washington and Oregon. The new bypass was built by Washington's State Department of Transportation and is owned by Sound Transit, the regional transit operator (who has run commuter trains on half of the corridor since 2012).

Positive train control was not activated, and was scheduled to be fully implemented by the end of next year.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 01:37 PM   #1212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woonsocket54 View Post
That's actually pretty crowded by Amtrak standards.
Depends on location of course. Outside of the Northeast it is not busy at all, but even then the Silver Meteor I once took between Orlando and Miami was filled pretty good, but that's pure for the following reasons:

- there are no other trains
- big catchment areas with lots of inhabitants
- it is during the afternoon, which is a comfortable time to travel
- it surely is cheaper than flying: $37 vs $83 2 weeks in advance
- and more comfortable

But if this service is at less comfortable times, crossing less urban areas and there's better airline competition, Amtrak loses. And with the Brightline in sight, the question is for how long Amtrak would survive in Florida, even if Democrats would come back to power by an impossible DC siege in 2018.
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And prohibit the use of agricultural land for new dwellings!

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Old December 20th, 2017, 06:23 PM   #1213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Polman View Post
Depends on location of course. Outside of the Northeast it is not busy at all, but even then the Silver Meteor I once took between Orlando and Miami was filled pretty good, but that's pure for the following reasons:

- there are no other trains
- big catchment areas with lots of inhabitants
- it is during the afternoon, which is a comfortable time to travel
- it surely is cheaper than flying: $37 vs $83 2 weeks in advance
- and more comfortable

But if this service is at less comfortable times, crossing less urban areas and there's better airline competition, Amtrak loses. And with the Brightline in sight, the question is for how long Amtrak would survive in Florida, even if Democrats would come back to power by an impossible DC siege in 2018.
Well Brightline needs to get to Orlando first in order to compete with Amtrak and that wont happen until 2020 at the earliest.
The Amtrak route between Orlando & Miami takes close to 6 hours while Brightline promises to make it in 3 hours so I don't see how they are going to compete in the future.
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Old December 20th, 2017, 06:42 PM   #1214
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Amtrak route is downtown Orlando to Miami airport
Brightline route will be Orlando Airport to downtown Miami

totally different markets
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Old December 21st, 2017, 03:05 AM   #1215
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"Brief History" of the Point Defiance Bypass

Courtesy of the Seattle Transit Blog.

The bypass has been mocked when mention is made of the ten minute gain in travel time between Seattle and Portland.

The current on-time record is poor because of freight interference. The bypass section of the route is almost all passenger only, with a very small number of occasional local freights. So the actual increase in travel time between the two cities should normally be more than the ten minutes. Of even greater importance is the fact that the inland line is allowing two additional Cascades trips between Seattle and Portland. We all know that frequency, rather than just travel time, can be a game-changer as whether a passenger route will be successful or not.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 10:54 AM   #1216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
Courtesy of the Seattle Transit Blog.

The bypass has been mocked when mention is made of the ten minute gain in travel time between Seattle and Portland.

The current on-time record is poor because of freight interference. The bypass section of the route is almost all passenger only, with a very small number of occasional local freights. So the actual increase in travel time between the two cities should normally be more than the ten minutes. Of even greater importance is the fact that the inland line is allowing two additional Cascades trips between Seattle and Portland. We all know that frequency, rather than just travel time, can be a game-changer as whether a passenger route will be successful or not.
Sure, most of us do, but news media are generally bad about framing the point of these types of projects...or they don't care to try.

It's the equivalent of saying that new bathroom you added to your house saves you 30secs on every trip from your bedroom...when that was never the point: You _needed_ a second bathroom.
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Old January 17th, 2018, 06:21 PM   #1217
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Looks like Michigan passenger rail services will speed up a little next week.

Detroit-Chicago travel time is currently in the range of 5h15m-5h40m.
Next week this will be reduced to 4h59m-5h22m.

existing schedule:


https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/p...ule-062617.pdf

upcoming schedule:


https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/p...ule-012218.pdf
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Old January 18th, 2018, 04:51 AM   #1218
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MARC testing their Siemens Chargers:


Additional Amtrak & MARC trains:

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