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Old April 30th, 2011, 04:49 PM   #141
nouveau.ukiyo
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Unless there is significant blight and decay, the power of the State (in the broader sense) to use eminent domain as a "public realtor" have been severely limited by laws and Supreme Court decisions since the late 1970s.

Moreover, Japan has 1/3 of US population concentrated in 1/15 of its area. Different realities. In US you need massive parking lots if you are to succeed with transit projects. But money is usually tight, so instead of multi-story underground facilities you end up with sprawling surface parking.
Philly is pretty pretty dense including Germantown. There is no excuse for the embarssment that is Wayne Junction station. I'd say the area is as dense as many Japanese neighborhoods; it's comprised mostly of connected row homes. No parkings lots here. Regional Rail and many bus routes connect here, including SEPTA's most used bus route, the 23. And yet...

The only commercial development around SEPTA stations is Center City. Broad Street Station offers riders Taco Bell, Popeye's Chicken and smoothies. Yea America, #1.

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Old April 30th, 2011, 05:57 PM   #142
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Unless there is significant blight and decay, the power of the State (in the broader sense) to use eminent domain as a "public realtor" have been severely limited by laws and Supreme Court decisions since the late 1970s.

Moreover, Japan has 1/3 of US population concentrated in 1/15 of its area. Different realities. In US you need massive parking lots if you are to succeed with transit projects. But money is usually tight, so instead of multi-story underground facilities you end up with sprawling surface parking.
Once again , you seem to speak on topics you know very little about.....this is the Northeast....not the the south or west....we don't need Parking structures at every station. Infact we need bike storage factilites more then parking...
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Old April 30th, 2011, 06:00 PM   #143
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Old May 1st, 2011, 03:50 AM   #144
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Once again , you seem to speak on topics you know very little about.....this is the Northeast....not the the south or west....we don't need Parking structures at every station. Infact we need bike storage factilites more then parking...
Well it depends where the station is. I used to take the R5 from Del Val; the only things there were the football stadium and some cows.

But I don't understand why the land around stations can't be developed and turn into transited oriented neighborhoods. Instead the lots, why not a community where those looking to go to Center City can live near the station and walk or bike to the station instead of driving? Throw in some stores, businesses, restaurants and a supermarket and it's not looking too shabby. People would want to be there because it's convenient; access to Center City and walking distance daily amenities.

Although I'm no expert on the Washington Metro, I think it functions in this way on some parts of the line. The system itself is a hybrid rapid transit/regional rail; in the city proper its like a metro, but it reaches out into the burbs where stations are far apart and functions like a regional rail. I think San Francisco's BART is similar. Again I don't know, but I hear developers and people are scrambling to get land near Metrorail stations and they are developing into more transited oriented neighborhoods rather than just a lot outside a town or housing development. I think these are lessons SEPTA could learn, especially for station within the City of Philadelphia proper.
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Old May 1st, 2011, 07:00 AM   #145
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But I don't understand why the land around stations can't be developed and turn into transited oriented neighborhoods. Instead the lots, why not a community where those looking to go to Center City can live near the station and walk or bike to the station instead of driving? Throw in some stores, businesses, restaurants and a supermarket and it's not looking too shabby. People would want to be there because it's convenient; access to Center City and walking distance daily amenities.
It has to do with two things:

1. The proportion of potential destinations that are already transit accessible. Attractive TOD communities could be built near transit stations, but if jobs and amenities are accessible mostly by car, then people will still drive, regardless of how convenient the transit stop is to their homes. Meanwhile, commuters who want to park and ride will be out of luck.

2. Growth: Some metros just aren't growing very much, and there's simply not enough demand for new construction to have a transforming effect on transportation. If everything is done right, then things could evolve in a good direction, but the evolution will be very slow.

Portland did everything right, with an aggressive rail program, supportive zoning, and an urban growth boundary, and it took twenty years for their efforts to produce detectable difference with other comparable American cities. It was worth the effort, IMO, but don't expect quick results.
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Old May 2nd, 2011, 12:44 AM   #146
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Portland did everything right, with an aggressive rail program, supportive zoning, and an urban growth boundary, and it took twenty years for their efforts to produce detectable difference with other comparable American cities. It was worth the effort, IMO, but don't expect quick results.
And here's a programme dedicated as to how this came about:-

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Old May 2nd, 2011, 04:58 PM   #147
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It has to do with two things:

1. The proportion of potential destinations that are already transit accessible. Attractive TOD communities could be built near transit stations, but if jobs and amenities are accessible mostly by car, then people will still drive, regardless of how convenient the transit stop is to their homes. Meanwhile, commuters who want to park and ride will be out of luck.

2. Growth: Some metros just aren't growing very much, and there's simply not enough demand for new construction to have a transforming effect on transportation. If everything is done right, then things could evolve in a good direction, but the evolution will be very slow.

Portland did everything right, with an aggressive rail program, supportive zoning, and an urban growth boundary, and it took twenty years for their efforts to produce detectable difference with other comparable American cities. It was worth the effort, IMO, but don't expect quick results.
This is why I don't like the fact that all of the US is consolidated into one thread. I'm talking Philly. The density is there. The neighborhoods are there. 5 major rail lines pass through Wayne Junction; if express trains stopped here, there could be trains every 5-10 minutes during rush hour. Unfortunately, few people in the neighborhood these days are working in Center City and the high price of Regional Rail discourages those that do from using trains. Compared to other cities, not much planning has to be put into creating better neighborhoods especially in Germantown. Improving the station area and encouraging Center City workers to live there is all they need to do. Unfortunately a lot of things go against this; SEPTA and City incompetence; neighborhood opposition; and a lack of jobs in Center City. Many people are moving into the City; the current census showed a population increase for the first time in decades. People want to be here, to the point where some are even reverse commuting out of the city by car. If only Philly weren't wedged between Washington and New York plus all the office parks in between...

It can be done. Look at areas like Manuyunk. I don't see much difference in the neighborhoods physically. Manuyunk is what many neighborhoods in Philly could be like. It is similar to Germantown (although Manayunk is hillier) and they have similar housing stock. Other stations on the R6, R7 and R8 in Northwest Philly (sorry I don't know the knew names yet; haven't been home in 3 years) have improved and Center City workers are living there. The same can be said of some stations on the Market-Frankford line. However, many areas still have a ways to go to become car-less and I think it has partly to do with poor or no neighborhood planning. Compared to other places in the US where entire neighborhoods and transportation has to be created (like Portland, Washington suburbs, etc.), in Philly a lot of the work is already done. The city has a high population density considering population declining over the decades and can definitely support another 500,000 (bringing the total to 2 million, the highest recorded population figure). There are 51 rail stations (not including subway and trolley stations) located within the City limits; this number has decreased over the years as once frequently used stations have become inactive and closed by SEPTA.

And lastly, transportation oriented neighborhoods was the norm in the past in Philly. But things deteriorated and we have once major stations like Wayne Junction serving as a reminder of a past that once was. Back in the day, you could go to New York City and Washington directly from Wayne Junction; it was served by two railroads, plus numerous trolley lines and buses. Now you can't even get an express train during rush hour into Center City from here; apparently there are only 740 daily boardings.

SEPTA Regional Rail is a special network. It's 13 lines and 100% electrified, the only such network in America. All lines pass through dense or once very dense neighborhoods. Some stations are miles apart. Others are only a few hundred yards; there are stations on the R7 and R8 only 3/10 mile (528 yards) apart. Many now closed North and West Philly stations were also very close too. The potential is there. Or I should it existed, since the city and it's neighborhoods were built on the backbone of three railroads (the Pennsy once the biggest company in the world) plus the subways and numerous trolley lines.

I guess my feelings are strong since I now live in an area with over 100 rail lines and 20 million daily rail passengers (SEPTA Regional Rail has 35 million passengers yearly). I look at what we have here in Japan and think we could have something similar in Philly. It's not that I think Philly should turn into Japan, but I definitely think a station like Wayne Junction, considering it's past history and it's location in a neighborhood with tens of thousands of people could improve it's 700+ daily alightings.

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Old May 2nd, 2011, 06:08 PM   #148
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The Northeastern Megapolis should get its own thread , since were completely different form the rest of the US.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 09:49 AM   #149
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 08:39 PM   #150
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The Northeastern Megapolis should get its own thread , since were completely different form the rest of the US.
No way. Every country will start asking for a separate thread. This was the reason by which threads were merged in first place.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 09:54 PM   #151
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No way. Every country will start asking for a separate thread. This was the reason by which threads were merged in first place.
Well we have more advanced and higher used systems then the rest of the country.
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Old May 3rd, 2011, 10:26 PM   #152
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Well we have more advanced and higher used systems then the rest of the country.
So does Southern England, Northernmost Italy, Western Netherlands, Central Japan, Southeastern Australia...
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Old May 4th, 2011, 08:44 AM   #153
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So does Southern England, Northernmost Italy, Western Netherlands, Central Japan, Southeastern Australia...
Thats different , were different. Its not that hard to understand or see.
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Old May 8th, 2011, 07:45 AM   #154
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NJT Express Train ride along the NEC...

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Old May 9th, 2011, 08:33 AM   #155
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an AMTRAK train got derailed in the East River tunnel, delaying/cancelling a number of LIRR trips... didn't this happen a couple of months ago?? same location too IIRC...
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Old May 10th, 2011, 03:37 PM   #156
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Thats different , were different. Its not that hard to understand or see.
I'm sorry, but I disagree. The amount of rail infrastructure and news present for the Northeastern states is nowhere near on the same level as other countries as suburbanist points out. Yet during my thread clean up, I left this regional rail thread for you so that you could showcase your photos and videos. I think this is more than sufficient given that the US is the only country with a thread for regional rail.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 07:54 AM   #157
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Old May 13th, 2011, 03:37 PM   #158
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I'm sorry, but I disagree. The amount of rail infrastructure and news present for the Northeastern states is nowhere near on the same level as other countries as suburbanist points out. Yet during my thread clean up, I left this regional rail thread for you so that you could showcase your photos and videos. I think this is more than sufficient given that the US is the only country with a thread for regional rail.
Yes, but other countries have their own country-specific sub-forum where they can put a single thread for each rail line, or for each region of the country.

Maybe a new sub-forum should be created specifically for USA Rail Infrastructure. I see that the USA specific forum is only about architecture.
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Old May 13th, 2011, 08:06 PM   #159
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Maybe a new sub-forum should be created specifically for USA Rail Infrastructure. I see that the USA specific forum is only about architecture.
That is an issue of the American Skyscraper Forum section, not of the global infrastructure section (this one)/
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 04:16 PM   #160
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A Diesel Regional Rail vid i took yesterday...

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