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Old April 13th, 2010, 06:44 PM   #41
brisavoine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crcorp View Post
Pont Mirabeau (still 16th district)
"Sous le pont Mirabeau coule la Seine
Et nos amours
Faut-il qu'il m'en souvienne
La joie venait toujours après la peine

Vienne la nuit sonne l'heure
Les jours s'en vont je demeure

Les mains dans les mains restons face à face
Tandis que sous
Le pont de nos bras passe
Des éternels regards l'onde si lasse

Vienne la nuit sonne l'heure
Les jours s'en vont je demeure

L'amour s'en va comme cette eau courante
L'amour s'en va
Comme la vie est lente
Et comme l'Espérance est violente

Vienne la nuit sonne l'heure
Les jours s'en vont je demeure

Passent les jours et passent les semaines
Ni temps passé
Ni les amours reviennent
Sous le pont Mirabeau coule la Seine

Vienne la nuit sonne l'heure
Les jours s'en vont je demeure"

Guillaume Apollinaire (1880 - 1918)
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Old April 13th, 2010, 06:54 PM   #42
brisavoine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crcorp View Post
The flame in memory of Princess Diana who died tragically inside this underpass of the Place de l'Alma


That flame is not in memory of Princess Diana. It already existed BEFORE the death of Princess Diana. It is the Flame of Liberty, a full-size replica of the flame at the upper end of the torch carried by the Statue of Liberty in NYC. It was offered to the city of Paris in 1989 by the International Herald Tribune, the culmination of that newspaper's 1987 celebration of its hundredth anniversary of publishing an English-language daily newspaper in Paris. That flame is a symbol of Franco-American friendship, and has nothing to do with Princess Diana.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 08:39 PM   #43
hofburg
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thanks for that great historical explanation.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 09:48 PM   #44
crcorp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hofburg
I didn't quite understand why the closed A6b is affecting Bercy, where exactly are the traffic jams? it's nothing nicer then sunday mornings in Paris.
The A6B is closed in the direction of Paris -> Province, thus people coming from the north-east who want to access the A6 highway are left with 2 out of the usual 3 alternatives:
- Use the Périphérique in order to join the A6A near the Porte d'Orléans, causing a traffic jam from the Porte de Bagnolet until the Porte d'Orléans
- Use the A86 ringway in order to join the A6 near Fresnes, causing a traffic jam from Thiais until Fresnes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisavoine
That flame is not in memory of Princess Diana. It already existed BEFORE the death of Princess Diana. It is the Flame of Liberty, a full-size replica of the flame at the upper end of the torch carried by the Statue of Liberty in NYC. It was offered to the city of Paris in 1989 by the International Herald Tribune, the culmination of that newspaper's 1987 celebration of its hundredth anniversary of publishing an English-language daily newspaper in Paris. That flame is a symbol of Franco-American friendship, and has nothing to do with Princess Diana.
You're right that the monument was not put there for Princess Diana as you pointed out. However, the monument is nowadays largely used as such. Even though it is a form of historical distortion, you cannot deny anymore that the one and only meaning of this monument is a symbol of Franco-American friendship.

Anyhow, "bravo" for the nice historical explanations on the progressive growth of Paris .
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Old April 13th, 2010, 10:55 PM   #45
brisavoine
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Originally Posted by crcorp View Post
Anyhow, "bravo" for the nice historical explanations on the progressive growth of Paris .
And we haven't even touched on the borders of the Medieval city. None of von Königsberg's pics were taken inside the Medieval city (or perhaps on the way out, but it's hard to tell), so I couldn't show you were the Medieval wall was located (in fact there were three successive Medieval walls).
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Old April 14th, 2010, 12:31 AM   #46
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Here on this picture by Crcorp I have indicated where the Medieval wall of Paris stood (it's the 2nd city wall in that picture, i.e. the 12th century wall).

[img]http://i42.************/dxftr9.png[/img]

Just on the quai above the Voie Express George Pompidou stood the Tour Barbeau (Barbeau Tower), the first tower of the 12th century Medieval wall on the Right Bank. This sign below tells us that in the 16th century a tennis court called la Croix-Noire (the Black Cross) was built here at the base of the wall (possibly where the Avenue Express Georges Pompidou runs now). Tennis courts back in these days were covered with a roof and had terraces for spectators (jeu de paume, the ancestor of our modern tennis, was practiced by aristocrats and rich people). The famous French playwright Molière set up his theatre inside this tennis court in 1644 according to the sign.



In this map from 1550, you can still see the Tour Barbeau (the 12th century wall has already disappeared, absorbed within the buildings of Paris):
[img]http://i42.************/332m6i0.png[/img]

In this map from 1615 by Matthäus Merian, the tower had already disappeared:
[img]http://i44.************/xe21xv.png[/img]

Here a reconstructed view of the area in the 15th century:
[img]http://i39.************/14jyfzo.png[/img]

Very near where Crcorp took his picture, a section of the 12th century wall is still visible (it had been absorbed within some buildings, so they destroyed part of the buildings after WW2 to make it visible again):

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Old April 14th, 2010, 01:23 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crcorp View Post
The A6B is closed in the direction of Paris -> Province, thus people coming from the north-east who want to access the A6 highway are left with 2 out of the usual 3 alternatives:
- Use the Périphérique in order to join the A6A near the Porte d'Orléans, causing a traffic jam from the Porte de Bagnolet until the Porte d'Orléans
- Use the A86 ringway in order to join the A6 near Fresnes, causing a traffic jam from Thiais until Fresnes.
aha. why they added A6b instead of widening original A6?
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Old April 15th, 2010, 07:56 PM   #48
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Thank you very much for that fine historical analysis brisavoine . It's a good thing that they open up old remnants of city walls. Although it is completely understandable that at the time people wanted to get rid of these things, but it is simply part of history and nowadays it would really look very nice to still have intact city walls .
Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg
aha. why they added A6b instead of widening original A6?
Because the A6a could not be widened as a result of surrounding buildings. The A6a and A6b run through a very densely populated area and they are completely surrounded by buildings. The A6b was originally intended to connect Paris to Rungis (where a huge market is located). However, nowadays it has merely a role of doubling the A6a for those coming from/going to the east, whereas the traffic on the A6a focuses most on those coming from/going to the west.

Some interesting information (in French) and historic pictures are available at the information web site for the renovation works : http://www.couverturea6b.fr

Last edited by crcorp; April 15th, 2010 at 08:49 PM.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 09:42 PM   #49
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(in French)
that's even better as it was in english.
nice video.
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Old April 16th, 2010, 07:50 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crcorp View Post
Nice
Fortunately for you, you didn't see the effects of the A6B being closed for 8 months now (this is why you see the yellow tags placed over the signs). Usually there is now a big traffic jam in the middle two lanes to get onto the Périphérique Intérieur. Of course there are always ******* who try to push themselves into the line at the last moment, also blocking all lanes to the left (Paris) and right (Périph Extérieur).

By the way, if you took a TGV at Paris-Lyon, it "only" runs at 300 km/h. The 320 km/h is only on the LGV-Est-Européenne (trains departing from Paris-Est). Anyway, if you start driving just after a trip by TGV, everything seems to be going slooooooow
The average speed between Paris Gare de Lyon to Le Creusot TGV (LGV Sud Est) is a bit less than 300km/h (389km in between 1h18 and 1h21). It is not unrealistic that the maximum speed is around 320/330 km/h.
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Old April 17th, 2010, 12:32 AM   #51
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yeap, I passed by le creusot
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