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Old December 9th, 2014, 08:27 PM   #41
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So these are just basically commuter rails lines that merge in the inner city?

Outside of the inner city how often do these trains run and is it all day bi-direction and weekends? Also are these part of the standard transit system? What I mean is your regular bus ticket/pass also good on all these routes even for a short distance?

Why do Per/Ade/Bri get such low ridership? Canadian cities would give their left nut to have such large systems.

Is there anywhere {or if you could provide info/link} to get ridership stats for Australian cities?

Thanks.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 08:43 PM   #42
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Within Sydney you'll find that level crossings are just about non-existent and with only a couple of exceptions out in the fringes the network's entirely grade separated. There's more level crossings in Melbourne but they're currently in the process (and has been for a while) of removing them and future plans are to run the network as close to a metro as possible. There is currently quite a bit of interlining in both networks though.

Technically Sydney and Melbourne's systems aren't metros but I regard them as more of a hybrid system. Service frequencies and station distancing emulates that of a metro along the busier corridors and larger stations (every few minutes during peak periods), while the less patronised parts of the network, usually the smaller stations as well as areas towards the fringes, receive a more suburban service (in Sydney weekday off peak frequencies of typically 15 mins at most of these stations, every 30 in the few quietest sections, and in Melbourne it's roughly comparable). Both systems run all day, bi-directional and weekend services (in Sydney the only single track line would be the Carlingford line which is comparatively short and hardly used and is currently being considered for conversion into light rail)

I've always found these classifications a little funny though. If we're going by level crossings and interlining wouldn't some parts of Chicago's 'el' be less of a subway, though it certainly is one?

All of Australia's major cities have now implemented transport smartcard systems that can be used through all modes of transport (eg. the Opal card in Sydney and Myki in Melbourne)

Here's the stats for daily ridership from wiki. I'm not too familiar with the other cities but for Sydney iirc the figures are derived mainly from ticket issues:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commuter_rail_in_Australia

And if you're interested here's a youtube channel which very comprehensively covers Sydney's rail network with a series of drivelapses. Gives you a pretty good idea of what the system's like:
https://www.youtube.com/user/cuboz1/videos

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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:23 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeFe View Post
echevallierpatrick wrote


Unfortunately the South Australian government (responsible for funding public transport in Adelaide) has run out of money (and there is an election for the state government very soon, which is predicted to oust the left-of-centre Labor party in favour of the car-loving Liberals (right-of-centre).
The Gawler line (going to the northern suburbs) is the next priority in the electrification process.
Before the recent Local govt election, I had a chance to grill my local ward councillor and he thinks it won't happen before 2017. I'm in Salisbury City Council so electrification of the Gawler line is of great interest to me.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 10:42 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
So these are just basically commuter rails lines that merge in the inner city?

Outside of the inner city how often do these trains run and is it all day bi-direction and weekends? Also are these part of the standard transit system? What I mean is your regular bus ticket/pass also good on all these routes even for a short distance?

Why do Per/Ade/Bri get such low ridership? Canadian cities would give their left nut to have such large systems.

Is there anywhere {or if you could provide info/link} to get ridership stats for Australian cities?

Thanks.
We just simply have century old metropolitan train systems that have been extended bit by bit over time. Most lines have the same frequency from starting in the CBD and finish way out in the outer suburbs (each way), however as lines converge near the city, you have the benefit of more lines and thus trains serving a station. In peak hours there are a series of express trains that serve the outer half of the line, and then all-stop trains serving the inner half. Its pretty much how every Aust city operates however Perth and now Adelaide have skip pattern services (semi express) that alternate between the less used stations. Each city has its own ticketing system that is integrated with bus and tram services. In Adelaide, a standard ticket lasts for 2 hours and you can travel from the outer northern suburbs, to the other southern suburbs (about 80-90kms for about $4) and use any combination of tram, train or bus. Frequencies range from every 10 mins to every half hour at night and on Sundays, some lines only every hour at night and weekends. Melb, Sydney and Perth have very good frequencies all day long, Brisb and Adelaide, not so good. Also, on average, stations are every 1.8km away from each other in distance, starting in the CBD, and ending in the outer suburbs
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Old March 20th, 2015, 02:26 PM   #45
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The divide between metro/subway and commuter rail is getting blurred these days everywhere. If you look at at Perth, the system there has been pretty much completely rebuilt and is 100% electric, lightweight (compared to traditional Australian heavy rail) EMUs, with several all new lines that are fully segregated, and like the LA metro run in the central reservation of motorways with pretty good headways on most stretches.

There's similar things happening in Europe, i.e. Valencia metro, London Overground etc.
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Old May 25th, 2015, 08:28 PM   #46
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=541

Report highlights need for better transport in Australian cities
Monday, May 25, 2015



AN audit of Australia's infrastructure carried out for the federal government by Infrastructure Australia says that without action to improve transport, congestion could cost the country $A 53bn ($US 41.8bn) in just over 15 years while road journey times along major urban arteries would increase by 20%

"Government, with the support of the private sector, must take decisive action to meet the nation's burgeoning infrastructure needs," says Mr Bob Herbert, interim chairman of the Australasian Railway Association (ARA) Mr Bob Herbert. "Rail infrastructure underpinning passenger transport must be in place to meet population growth which, according to the audit, will swell demand for public transport by 55% in Sydney, 121% in Melbourne and around 89% in other capital cities. This is a massive challenge and it will require an imaginative approach as to how best to invest, fund and finance these infrastructure necessities"

...
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Old July 2nd, 2015, 07:41 PM   #47
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=541

Sunshine Coast completes LRT consultation
Thursday, July 02, 2015



SUNSHINE Coast, Australia, is to carry out further studies into the development of a light rail network after a public consultation revealed 87% of residents endorse the project

The council has subsequently allocated $A 750,000 ($US 571,000) from its 2015-2016 budget for further studies on the proposed route from Maroochydore to Kawana and Caloundra.

"Identifying a potential corridor and taking the necessary steps to protect it for this future use would help shape how and when the solution was delivered," says councillor for transport Mr Rick Baberowski. "Results of the feasibility studies will ensure that the council can present a clear case to the Queensland [state] government on whether light rail is right and feasible for the Sunshine Coast

...
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Old August 21st, 2015, 12:25 AM   #48
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An observation I've made is that most of the larger cities downunder are simultaneously about to start capacity improving tunnels through the centre of their networks in order to further 'metrofy' their systems. Thought I'd compile the projects into one post here.

Sydney Metro/Second Harbour Rail Crossing
Sydney is building a new 66km driverless metro line that will span from the North West to Chatswood and then swing south through a new tunnel across the harbour and through the CBD to Bankstown. This will take over the existing Epping to Chatswood and Bankstown lines and allow major frequency increases across the rest of the network. Most importantly it is also setting a foundation for future commuter to metro line conversions. Construction is already underway with stage one due to open in 2019 and stage 2 opening in the early 2024.







http://nwrail.transport.nsw.gov.au/


Melbourne Metro Rail Project
Like Sydney, Melbourne's rail network converges on a loop line within the CBD and is nearing capacity. This project involves building a 9km north-south tunnel that will cut through the city loop and connect to several existing lines at each end. The idea is to have service frequencies that won't require a timetable across most of the network. Construction is expected to commence in 2018 and finish in 2026.







http://mmrailproject.vic.gov.au/


Auckland City Rail Link
Unlike Sydney and Melbourne, trains in Auckland currently terminate at a dead end in the CBD with no through/loop services. This project will link Britomart/CBD with the Western line and increase capacity across the rest of the network with the aim of having 5-10 min frequencies across the network during peak. Construction contracts have been awarded with construction starting this year and finishing in 2023.







https://at.govt.nz/projects-roadworks/city-rail-link/


Brisbane Cross River Rail
This project is similar to Melbourne's Metro project with an 18km rail line through the CBD linking to several exisiting lines at either end. Unfortunately it was scrapped and resurrected as a bi-level bus and train tunnel only to be scrapped once again after the last state election. The new state government has plans to resurrect the original train only tunnel in some form or another but no details have been formalised as of yet and so won't be starting anytime too soon.



http://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov....l-project.html

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Old August 22nd, 2015, 08:46 AM   #49
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Does anyone have any information on what are the busiest stations in Australia/NZ? Sometimes Town Hall station in Sydney gets mentioned, but other lists point to Flinders Street station in Melbourne. It'd be good to get a list of the top ten busiest to see if any were outside of Melbourne and Sydney as other big cities in the region tend to be more bus orientated, with the exception of Perth.

I did find some pretty interesting stuff on Flinders Street station on Wiki though. Keeping in mind that Melbourne was the home of the Australian communist party and the union movement, and has forever been a lot more left-wing than Sydney, you can kinda see why the design of the building was given over to railway employees to design into a 'workers' utopia':

Quote:
The top three levels of the main building contain a large number of rooms, particularly along the Flinders Street frontage, mostly intended for railway use, but also many as lettable spaces. Numerous ticket windows were located at each entry, with services such as a restaurant, country booking office, lost luggage and visitors help booth at concourse or platform level. Much of the top floor was purpose built for the then new Victorian Railway Institute, including a library, gym and a lecture hall, later used as a ballroom; these rooms have been abandoned and decaying for many years. In the 1930s and 1940s the building once featured a creche next to the main dome on the top floor for a number of years,[12] with an open-air playground on an adjoining roof. The basement store beside the main entrance has been occupied by a hat store since 1910. Known as 'City Hatters' since 1933.
However, the full design was never completed. It was meant to have ornate train sheds along the southern end.


https://melbourneurbanist.files.word...-elevation.jpg

Because it was never finished, we end up with never-ending design competitions for the station. This design by Hassell (Aus) and Herzog & de Meuron was chosen as a winner a while ago, but who knows if this will happen as the state government is more concerned with building new lines as opposed to spending billions on one single station. It'd be nice to see it happen though.


http://www.bustler.net/images/news2/..._hhdm-01_1.jpg


http://www.bustler.net/images/news2/...on_hhdm-03.jpg


http://www.bustler.net/images/news2/...on_hhdm-06.jpg


http://www.bustler.net/images/news2/...on_hhdm-09.jpg

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Old August 22nd, 2015, 01:52 PM   #50
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Here's Sydney's station entries/exits counts:
http://visual.bts.nsw.gov.au/barrier/

Anything similar for Melbourne?
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Old August 26th, 2015, 02:08 AM   #51
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Just found Melbourne's station entry stats!
http://ptv.vic.gov.au/news-and-event...train-network/

The data's from 2011-2012 so for Sydney I'll use the 2012 counts.

5 busiest stations in Sydney by entries (2012):

Central - 91 050
Town Hall - 84 030
Wynyard - 58 040
Parramatta - 30 070
North Sydney - 28 780


5 busiest stations in Melbourne by entries (2011-2012):

Flinders Street - 92 632
Southern Cross - 56 976
Melbourne Central - 50 710
Parliament - 40 463
Flagstaff - 20 603

Didn't have much luck in finding comparable stats for other cities but for Auckland I found this page for Britomart station. However it doesn't explain how the figure was derived so I can't tell how comparable it is.
https://at.govt.nz/about-us/news-eve...t-than-airport
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Old August 26th, 2015, 09:26 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mw123 View Post
An observation I've made is that most of the larger cities downunder are simultaneously about to start capacity improving tunnels through the centre of their networks in order to further 'metrofy' their systems. Thought I'd compile the projects into one post here.

Sydney Metro/Second Harbour Rail Crossing
Sydney is building a new 66km driverless metro line that will span from the North West to Chatswood and then swing south through a new tunnel across the harbour and through the CBD to Bankstown. This will take over the existing Epping to Chatswood and Bankstown lines and allow major frequency increases across the rest of the network. Most importantly it is also setting a foundation for future commuter to metro line conversions. Construction is already underway with stage one due to open in 2019 and stage 2 opening in the early 2024.







http://nwrail.transport.nsw.gov.au/


Melbourne Metro Rail Project
Like Sydney, Melbourne's rail network converges on a loop line within the CBD and is nearing capacity. This project involves building a 9km north-south tunnel that will cut through the city loop and connect to several existing lines at each end. The idea is to have service frequencies that won't require a timetable across most of the network. Construction is expected to commence in 2018 and finish in 2026.







http://mmrailproject.vic.gov.au/


Auckland City Rail Link
Unlike Sydney and Melbourne, trains in Auckland currently terminate at a dead end in the CBD with no through/loop services. This project will link Britomart/CBD with the Western line and increase capacity across the rest of the network with the aim of having 5-10 min frequencies across the network during peak. Construction contracts have been awarded with construction starting this year and finishing in 2023.







https://at.govt.nz/projects-roadworks/city-rail-link/


Brisbane Cross River Rail
This project is similar to Melbourne's Metro project with an 18km rail line through the CBD linking to several exisiting lines at either end. Unfortunately it was scrapped and resurrected as a bi-level bus and train tunnel only to be scrapped once again after the last state election. The new state government has plans to resurrect the original train only tunnel in some form or another but no details have been formalised as of yet and so won't be starting anytime too soon.



http://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov....l-project.html

Unfortunately for all the schemes you have posted in Oz, only the Sydney Metro has been funded and is under construction.

Melbourne is ready for construction awaiting money.

Brisbane- well I'm pretty sure it's been canned.

Does anyone know the funding status/investigative works status for the Auckland projecct?
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Old August 26th, 2015, 12:03 PM   #53
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Auckland is go.

Auckland Council have already commenced a short underground section with a developer who is building a tower on the site. Central government has been very difficult but appears to be caving in, looking for a face saving formula to allow the funding without giving credit to their political opponents.
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Old November 18th, 2015, 05:56 PM   #54
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From Railway Gazette:

Quote:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/b...c-markets.html

Stadler Rail targets Asia-Pacific markets
18 Nov 2015





AUSTRALIA: Stadler Rail has established an Australian subsidiary to support its planned expansion into Australia and the wider Asia-Pacific region.

Stadler Australia has opened an office in Sydney, and intends to form a joint venture in Australia which would undertake final assembly using rolling stock components supplied from Europe by sea.

Stadler said this forms part of a ‘strategic repositioning’ of the company, which aims to enter new geographical markets and expand its portfolio to include metro and inter-city trainsets and main line locomotives

...
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Old January 25th, 2016, 04:40 PM   #55
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From Rail Journal:

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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=541

Expressions of interest invited for Newcastle LRT
Monday, January 25, 2016



THE New South Wales state Department of Transport (Transport for NSW) has invited expressions of interest for contracts to to design and construct a new light rail line in the city of Newcastle

The 2.5km line will link a new transport hub at the existing heavy rail station at Wickham with Pacific Park in the Newcastle city centre.

The last few kilometres of the heavy rail line from Sydney in Newcastle were controversially closed just over a year ago with services currently curtailed at Hamilton and replaced by buses into the city

...
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Old January 25th, 2016, 11:44 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post

Is there anywhere {or if you could provide info/link} to get ridership stats for Australian cities?

Thanks.
A question asked a while ago, but here is an answer (page 14 onwards):

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/2014/files/is_060.pdf

The figures are extremely low by European standards but not unlike North America - basically an automobile-dependent society since the 1950s.

The trams were the biggest carriers, even bigger than trains. In 1945 they moved over a billion people. Sydney trams were the individual record-holder, nothing has come close to them since, not even trains.

The "brilliant" idea in the 1950s was to replace the trams with buses, but buses have failed to bring improvement, to the contrary they have mostly lost even more patronage.

In the major cities, only Melbourne's tram patronage growth has been ahead of population growth proportionally. Rail and bus have lost their proportional shares, even some negative growth in Sydney and Adelaide.

The notable exceeption is Perth which has been very progressive with public transport and there has been huge growth in rail and bus patronage, proportionally well ahead of population growth. Perth is generally the only modern success story of Australian public transport, although there has been some growth again in most cities since 2000 due to population pressures and cities becoming denser. But due to under-investment, rail and bus systems have difficulty handling the extra demand and so people go back to their cars.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 04:55 PM   #57
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Quote:
Rail and bus have lost their proportional shares, even some negative growth in Sydney and Adelaide.
Adelaide recorded largest public transport numbers ever in the 2014/15 year.
http://dpti.sa.gov.au/news/?a=173210
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Old January 26th, 2016, 09:21 PM   #58
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Quote:
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Adelaide recorded largest public transport numbers ever in the 2014/15 year.
http://dpti.sa.gov.au/news/?a=173210
Since 1988 rather than "ever"!

Both train and buses are still in negative growth relative to population growth since 1970. Still it's an encouraging rise in train patronage, back up almost to early 1980s level.
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Old January 30th, 2016, 06:58 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historyworks View Post
A question asked a while ago, but here is an answer (page 14 onwards):

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/2014/files/is_060.pdf

The figures are extremely low by European standards but not unlike North America - basically an automobile-dependent society since the 1950s.

The trams were the biggest carriers, even bigger than trains. In 1945 they moved over a billion people. Sydney trams were the individual record-holder, nothing has come close to them since, not even trains.

The "brilliant" idea in the 1950s was to replace the trams with buses, but buses have failed to bring improvement, to the contrary they have mostly lost even more patronage.

In the major cities, only Melbourne's tram patronage growth has been ahead of population growth proportionally. Rail and bus have lost their proportional shares, even some negative growth in Sydney and Adelaide.

The notable exceeption is Perth which has been very progressive with public transport and there has been huge growth in rail and bus patronage, proportionally well ahead of population growth. Perth is generally the only modern success story of Australian public transport, although there has been some growth again in most cities since 2000 due to population pressures and cities becoming denser. But due to under-investment, rail and bus systems have difficulty handling the extra demand and so people go back to their cars.
The problem with the BITRE trend figures, and with local and more contemporary figures, is that it is impossible to get meaningful information for some places - the most glaring omission for some time has been the Gold Coast but there are others (largely in Queensland as well). Regional bus operations in Queensland actually have more available and easier to follow patronage data at present than in SEQ!
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Old January 30th, 2016, 09:51 AM   #60
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In the major cities, only Melbourne's tram patronage growth has been ahead of population growth proportionally.
Huh? Melbourne's trains have seen far higher growth than the trams. In the early 2000s trams had higher patronage than the trains. Now train patronage is miles ahead
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