IRAQ | Aviation Sector

[BigDreamer]

the orders were made by the Government, which was then leased to Iraqi Airways

so in theory, they shouldn't be affected..

[elusive]

Originally Posted by BigDreamer

the orders were made by the Government, which was then leased to Iraqi Airways

so in theory, they shouldn't be affected..

cool so they'll have 30 new boeings for the new airlines
they should call it Iraqi.

[BigDreamer]

I'm not 100% this will be the case, I think we should hear it from someone who's in the aviation business to know for sure..

but I always thought that Iraqi airways should be dismantled, and a new and efficient airways should be setup in its place..

yes it has a great legacy, it's the oldest airline in the middle east. It was the envy of all other ME airlines back in the day, but now it's a dysfunctional airways, struggling to survive even without the law cases from Kuwait

I think it's a good step to make a fresh start.

[kurd123]

Originally Posted by dude01

and btw when i said finish his job i meant about kuwait's not our kurdish brothers..sorry kurd123 if i offended you :P

Dude, you should realy watch what you say becuase, for me if you say "saddam should have finished his job" for ANY reason, then by this logic, when kurds piss you off, you'd say the same, tell me that Im wrong?

I'd like it if the dogs name is not mentioned here please, I think he cuased enough trouble, may he burn in hell.

P.S: whatever kuwait has done, its wrong to wish death upon them, as what the goverment does, does not represent the people living there.

[elusive]

Originally Posted by BigDreamer

I'm not 100% this will be the case, I think we should hear it from someone who's in the aviation business to know for sure..

but I always thought that Iraqi airways should be dismantled, and a new and efficient airways should be setup in its place..

yes it has a great legacy, it's the oldest airline in the middle east. It was the envy of all other ME airlines back in the day, but now it's a dysfunctional airways, struggling to survive even without the law cases from Kuwait

I think it's a good step to make a fresh start.

yeah i agree, lets see how this whole thing unfolds...

[BigDreamer]

Iraqi Airways to be closed following bankruptcy
Page last updated at 16:53 GMT, Wednesday, 26 May 2010 17:53 UK
E-mail this to a friendPrintable version Iraqi has blamed Kuwait for its flag-carrier's failure The Iraqi government has said it will close the state-owned Iraqi Airways after declaring it bankrupt.

Iraq's transportation ministry told reporters the airline would be closed following a damaging dispute with Kuwait over war reparations.

Kuwait Airways says the Iraqi flag carrier owes it about $1.2bn for aircraft and plane parts taken during the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990.

All scheduled Iraqi Airways flights have been cancelled.

They include weekly flights between Baghdad and London, and flights from Baghdad to a number of other destinations in the Middle East, including Tehran, Damascus and Cairo.

The ministry blamed "harassment" from Kuwait for the airline's failure.

Last month, lawyers acting for Kuwaiti authorities tried to have an Iraqi Airlines plane confiscated while at London's Gatwick Airport.

Flights cancelled

It had just arrived following the first direct flight between Baghdad and London for 20 years.

The airline's chief executive also had his passport confiscated and was held in London, but has since returned to Iraq.

Earlier this week, Iraqi Airways said it would end flights to Europe and Sweden because of the efforts of Kuwait to retrieve compensation.

Lawyers acting for Kuwaiti authorities are unable to seize planes, however, because they are chartered from other airlines, rather than owned by Iraqi Airways itself.

Chris Gooding, a lawyer representing Kuwait Airways, said the winding up of Iraqi Airways would not stop his clients from pursuing compensation.

He pointed to a statement made by the the Iraqi transport minister last week which said: "This action will not protect a government company because when a government company is declared bankrupt its assets are transferred to the ministry of finance and therefore the ministry will be prosecuted."

"I'm sure he won't be surprised to hear that Kuwait Airways' legal team entirely supports that conclusion," Mr Gooding told BBC World Service.

The transport minister warned that winding down the company could take as long as three years.

But all Iraqi Airways flights were immediately cancelled and refunds are already being offered to affected customers.

The move also puts around 30 jobs at risk in the UK.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/10162501.stm

[Halawala]

Originally Posted by Halawala

I think Iraqi airways should at least pay off its debt to the Kuwait and then start again. Starting from scratch and ignoring its huge pre-debts is a very bad idea! At least it should give away part/full profits to KAC until it repays its debt.

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

tikram arabushim, but I'll bite.

the iraqi government is obligated to pay reparations to kuwait under the UN organised "gulf war compensation" deal.

Kuwaiti airways has already received compensation under that deal. which is the official international scheme under which iraq has paid for the damage it caused in its invasion of kuwait.

this claim, is by kuwaiti airways corporation against iraqi airways corporation in a NON CRIMINAL claim in a BRITISH court. It is not a compensation claim for iraq's invasion. Iraq has already paid for that. This is a claim that kuwaiti airways is making for damages that iraqi airways did to them in 1990, and the only reason they won by default is because iraqi airways didn't bother defending it.

It is therefore a CORPORATE claim vs a PRIVATE entity and not an INTERNATIONAL TRIBUNAL claim for a WAR CRIME.

Finally the amount the kuwaitis claimed included the false claim that they lost 10 aircraft, when in fact 4 were destroyed and 6 returned in tact to kuwait after the war by Iran.

that is the reason Iraq can ignore the above particular "claim". the old iraqi airways is bankrupt and has no assets for the beduin leeches to try and gnaw on.

I do hope that even you understood that. Though I am not hopeful.

PS JORDAN IS PALESTINE. 6IRGA3A.

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

quite clearly not simple enough for you.

Iraqi government is obligated to pay damages as per gulf war compensation fund. anything else is IMMATERIAL and has NO STANDING IN ANY CRIMINAL/INTERNATIONAL court.

KAC can continue KACing as much as they want. but they won't ever see a red penny from the Iraqi government. since the iraqi government has nothing to do with their CIVIL CLAIM IN A BRITISH COURT vs a BANKRUPT NON EXISTENT ENTITY WITH NO ASSETS.

I guess they will see more than red pennies.

Originally Posted by Halawala

Iraqi Airways lost a court case and now has to pay or else suffer the consequences.Why didnt they defend themselves in British court? And why didnt they win if they are "Obviously" right here?!
How sad really.

I guess I was right all along! The 24 year old "kids" beats the "expert" in this issue.

Iraqi Airways is being dissolved due to the complications arising to this issue. This wont stop in the future.

The planes are grounded and chances are any new company will also go through this difficult process.

I dont think slapping some new paint in these planes will make a difference.

[sheytanElKebir]

Originally Posted by Halawala

I guess they will see more than red pennies.



I guess I was right all along! The 24 year old "kids" beats the "expert" in this issue.

Iraqi Airways is being dissolved due to the complications arising to this issue. This wont stop in the future.

The planes are grounded and chances are any new company will also go through this difficult process.

I dont think slapping some new paint in these planes will make a difference.

KAC will not see a single penny from Iraq, and the Iraqi finance ministry continues to buy new aircraft... oh how droll.

since Iraqi airways (since 2003) has simply been a "brand name".. it can be liquidated 100 times and it makes no difference, KAC won't see a penny - all assets are owned by the Iraqi government and simply can't be touched... and Iraq has over $100Bn at the Federal Reserve bank of New York. Your "logic" (if I may be so generous) fails at the point that none of the Iraqi government assets has at any point in time been in danger of being seized...

Next, the british are investing $10s of billions into Iraq's oil sector and attempting to sell 24 Hawks to the Iraqi air force... good thing that the iraqi government has finally paid attention to these annoying beduins and their homeless filist6eezi minions. and although they are annoying to passengers, the real point here is that KAC have paid $70M+ to this british law firm over the past 20 years and haven't seen a penny back. In fact, apart from the annoyance, I would love it if the KAC bedu continue paying $10M+ every year to this law firm who are bleeding them dry ...

so who's paying homelesswalla?

hasn't your eternally illogical filis6eezi "brain" ever wondered how come Iraqi airways has flown thousands upon thousands of INTERNATIONAL flights since 2003 and never lost a single penny... even the plane in London couldn't be impounded nor the IA manager arrested.... perhaps these should give your peabrain a clue, but since you've managed to stay homeless for 7 decades i very much doubt it.

I expect you to come back and gloat when the iraqi government pays $1.2Bn to the KACs or has some of its $100Bn+ assets ABROAD seized... until then... KAC are paying their sleazy lawyers and the Iraqis are just bemused...

we have a country and oil. what have you got?

[BigDreamer]

guys can you please cut it out.. your tit for tat posts are spoiling this thread.

[kurd123]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

KAC will not see a single penny from Iraq, and the Iraqi finance ministry continues to buy new aircraft... oh how droll.

since Iraqi airways (since 2003) has simply been a "brand name".. it can be liquidated 100 times and it makes no difference, KAC won't see a penny - all assets are owned by the Iraqi government and simply can't be touched... and Iraq has over $100Bn at the Federal Reserve bank of New York. Your "logic" (if I may be so generous) fails at the point that none of the Iraqi government assets has at any point in time been in danger of being seized...

Next, the british are investing $10s of billions into Iraq's oil sector and attempting to sell 24 Hawks to the Iraqi air force... good thing that the iraqi government has finally paid attention to these annoying beduins and their homeless filist6eezi minions. and although they are annoying to passengers, the real point here is that KAC have paid $70M+ to this british law firm over the past 20 years and haven't seen a penny back. In fact, apart from the annoyance, I would love it if the KAC bedu continue paying $10M+ every year to this law firm who are bleeding them dry ...

so who's paying homelesswalla?

hasn't your eternally illogical filis6eezi "brain" ever wondered how come Iraqi airways has flown thousands upon thousands of INTERNATIONAL flights since 2003 and never lost a single penny... even the plane in London couldn't be impounded nor the IA manager arrested.... perhaps these should give your peabrain a clue, but since you've managed to stay homeless for 7 decades i very much doubt it.

I expect you to come back and gloat when the iraqi government pays $1.2Bn to the KACs or has some of its $100Bn+ assets ABROAD seized... until then... KAC are paying their sleazy lawyers and the Iraqis are just bemused...

we have a country and oil. what have you got?

Thats been a great blessing so far, right?

[Halawala]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

we have a country and oil. what have you got?

Well my country is the richest country in the world overtaking Luxembourg. We are the richest people in the world--home to the world's largest unassociated gas field in the world (and largest gas exporter in the world)--in addition to oil. Were also home to the world's fastest growing airline, QATAR AIRWAYS.

Qatar recorded double-digit growth in recent years and will contine to do so for the the forseable future.

Im Qatari by the way.

Ciao!

[Halawala]

Back to topic, Qatar Airways will fly to Baghdad, Erbil, and Najaf from this winter 2010.

[BigDreamer]

great news

[sheytanElKebir]

Iraqi Airways, founded in 1945, was dissolved by Baghdad yesterday, creating further turmoil for a jet order the carrier placed in 2008 with Bombardier Inc.

Winding up the state-owned national airline outright is the latest rebound in a 20-year financial conflict between Iraq and Kuwait over planes Iraqi forces seized during the first Gulf war.

Kuwait is seeking $1.2 billion U.S. in reparation for 10 planes and spare parts it accuses Iraq of having looted following the 1990 invasion ordered by then-dictator Saddam Hussein.

Kuwait won the latest round in Britain on April 25, when the first Iraqi airliner to land in London in 20 years was impounded at its request.

Bombardier spokesperson John Arnone said the status of the order remains uncertain because there are two judicial cases pending in Canada, one before the Supreme Court of Canada and the other on appeal in Quebec Superior Court.

The Quebec Court of Appeal dismissed a claim that would have allowed Kuwait Airways to seize assets belonging to the Iraqi government in Canada, including the Bombardier airliners ordered by Iraqi Airways.

But the Supreme Court agreed to hear an appeal in the case.

Arnone said that Bombardier has delivered four of the 10 CRJ900 90-seaters.

"It's the six (others) that continue to be paralyzed," Arnone said.

Bombardier is considering whether to cut production rates and staff at its regional-jet division. Orders for RJs have slowed to a trickle in the last two years, and Bombardier Aerospace president Guy Hachey said a decision on cutbacks is still weeks away. Arnone said that the Iraqi situation would be one factor thrown into the mix to arrive at a decision on production rates and staffing.

A Bombardier spokesperson warned last summer, before the four deliveries, that cancellation of the order could result in production cuts, and possibly layoffs.

"We are an innocent third party that is suffering tremendous damages because of this situation," he said in August.

Reports from the Middle East speculated that the liquidated airline, one of the oldest in the region, would be replaced.

Iraqi Transport Ministry spokesman Aqeel Kawthar was quoted as saying that "the decision was taken because of the numerous acts of harassment that the company has faced from Kuwait that have prevented its planes from taking on fuel and food at various airports."

Industry insiders have said they believe the real motive underlying the decades-old dispute is actually a market fight between Iraqi Airways and Kuwaiti Airways -with Bombardier caught in the crossfire.

Iraqi Airways was hit hard by United Nations sanctions imposed on Iraq after the 1990 invasion of Kuwait.

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Airli...#ixzz0pBGnD3rE





so the court threw out the case... and they're appealing. spend your $$$ on lawyers fees stupid KAC bedu. you'll get beaten and beaten... perhaps the new airline in Iraq should have a deliberately provocative name like "Hamurabi airline" (after king hamurabi, and also the Armoured division of the RGFC that spearheaded Iraq's reclaim of kuwait village of Basra province in 1990). Just to spite the filthy gulf bedu.

[sheytanElKebir]

Print this article email this article Comment on this article
Baghdad - Iraqi Airways domestic and international flights resumed on Wednesday, one day after the Iraqi government's decision to sell the national airline in a row with Kuwait over debt.

"The Council of Ministers decided to liquidate Iraqi Airways and offer it for sale to private airlines in order to avoid the problems in Iraqi aviation caused by Kuwaiti prosecution," an Iraqi government source told state owned al-Sabah newspaper.

Kuwait is demanding reparations worth around 1.2 billion dollars for damage and losses incurred during Saddam Hussein's invasion and occupation of Kuwait in 1990, including the seizure of several aircraft and parts.

"Flights to London and Stockholm have been suspended due to the dispute with Kuwait," Kifah Hassan, the general manager of the airline, said in a press statement.

Britain and Sweden began refusing to supply Iraqi Airways planes with fuel and food as a result of the escalation of the Kuwaiti dispute in British courts last month, he said.


that is interesting...

[BigDreamer]

interesting indeed.

Seriously, KAC's action would be considered lunatic if they did this to another country. Iraqi Airways did not invade Kuwait, it didn't steal planes (or parts).. it's a civilian airways. they're problem as I understand it is with the actions of the prior government, why the hell do they take it out on IA ...

[BigDreamer]

May 28 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe’s second-biggest carrier, will restart regular service to Baghdad, the first of the western European and U.S. carriers to resume flights to the Iraqi capital.

The airline will serve Baghdad from Munich beginning Sept. 30, following a 20-year break, as economic growth attracts customers to the former war-ridden country, Cologne-based Lufthansa said in a statement today. A Boeing 737 operated by Switzerland-based PrivatAir on Lufthansa’s behalf will offer four weekly flights, it said.

The carrier offered Baghdad flights between 1956 and 1990, when it stopped service because of the first Gulf War, during which a U.S.-led army pushed Iraq’s forces out of neighboring Kuwait. The Middle Eastern nation aims to double oil production and lift revenue from crude sales by 60 percent in the coming four years even as it struggles to find a government that’s acceptable to all its major ethnic and religious groups.

“Even if Iraq doesn’t seem like a very attractive destination at the moment, in the long run Lufthansa is doing the right thing,” said Juergen Pieper, an analyst at Bankhaus Metzler in Frankfurt, who recommends investors “buy” the shares. “It’s also an expression of the historically good relationship between Germany and the Arab states, which take such positive signals very seriously.”

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

[elusive]

Originally Posted by BigDreamer

May 28 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG, Europe’s second-biggest carrier, will restart regular service to Baghdad, the first of the western European and U.S. carriers to resume flights to the Iraqi capital.

The airline will serve Baghdad from Munich beginning Sept. 30, following a 20-year break, as economic growth attracts customers to the former war-ridden country, Cologne-based Lufthansa said in a statement today. A Boeing 737 operated by Switzerland-based PrivatAir on Lufthansa’s behalf will offer four weekly flights, it said.

The carrier offered Baghdad flights between 1956 and 1990, when it stopped service because of the first Gulf War, during which a U.S.-led army pushed Iraq’s forces out of neighboring Kuwait. The Middle Eastern nation aims to double oil production and lift revenue from crude sales by 60 percent in the coming four years even as it struggles to find a government that’s acceptable to all its major ethnic and religious groups.

“Even if Iraq doesn’t seem like a very attractive destination at the moment, in the long run Lufthansa is doing the right thing,” said Juergen Pieper, an analyst at Bankhaus Metzler in Frankfurt, who recommends investors “buy” the shares. “It’s also an expression of the historically good relationship between Germany and the Arab states, which take such positive signals very seriously.”

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

good to hear, do they fly to erbil already?

[sheytanElKebir]

Originally Posted by elusive

good to hear, do they fly to erbil already?

see Arbil airport's status.

http://www.erbilairport.net/

lufthansa is on the airports list. but no flight information?

also see that IA is still flying, some sources said that it stopped?

[Infestus]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

see Arbil airport's status.

http://www.erbilairport.net/

lufthansa is on the airports list. but no flight information?

also see that IA is still flying, some sources said that it stopped?

I think they start flights in june or july, frankfurt - erbil, also austrian(former known as austrian airlines), flies vienna-erbil, austrian is owned by lufthansa since 2009.